Cannibalistic Copperhead

[SCReptiles]

I bought five non-eating coppers last week to use as coral snake food. I placed them in a container and gave them some Electrolyte to drink. Always want to make sure we get as many vitamins as possible into the snake-eaters. Well, open the container last night and noticed we now only had four copperheads and one of those was very well feed. Seems he decided he was no longer interested in being a non-eater and due to the lack of mice at the time, he made do with what he had. Well, this little guy impressed me, so he was moved out of the food container and given a cage of his own. We now call him Lector.
http://secw.bravepages.com/Chuck/pics/lector_1.JPG

[BWSmith]

That is anew one on me. I did find something interesting outlast night. i have several nonfeeding baby coppers right now. Tried about everything. But as I was thawing out some smelt for the Garter, I clipped off a little piece and threw it in witht he baby coppers. 10 munites later it was gone. So I added 5 more little strips of smelt (slightly smaller than pinkie size) and 2 were left when I went to bed. I had never tried fish on baby copper before, but they seem to like it. At least it is food.

[SCReptiles]

If you decide to sell those non-eaters at a reasonable price, I will be happy to take them off your hands. =)

[BWSmith]

My Coral doesn't seem to want to eat coppers for some reason. he ate so good and now he refused coppers, anoles (both live), and f/t greay rats, dekayi, and rough greens. I am hoping he is just full and trying to get ready for winter.

If you decide to sell those non-eaters at a reasonable price
People PAY for Copperheads? ;)

[SCReptiles]

yep! We are giving $2.00 for non-eating coppers, corns, rats, etc. Keep them coming. =)

[skin78]

really amazing.. great pic also.. what does a copperhead cost there??

[BWSmith]

Don't really know. I have never paid for any Southerns or Northerns. At Columbia I had people trying to give me dozens of baby Copperheads for free. I think on the Tables they ran about $5 or so for babies and about $20 or $25 for adults. Any coppers I have gotten rid of I have just given away to responsible keepers or Nature Centers.

[skin78]

mmm thats not much lol I dont know what coppers cost here in Holland but for free?? I don't think so.. The dutch keepers will rarely give something for free LOL.

[Tim and Julie B]

Wow I love Copperheads. I had no idea they were used as a food item! I can not believe they are so cheap. Kind of sad really. Look at the lump in that little guy!

[SCReptiles]

The Southeast is the only area they are so cheap. Other places they can bring a fair price. We are just over run with them here. People collect gravid females all thru the summer, then in early fall we have babies galore. I don’t like using coppers as food, but the corals have to eat. If I could keep a steady supply of corns and kings I wouldn’t do it, but they run in short supply sometimes.

[Mustangrde1]

I think that what Chuck was saying is he is buying "non-feedeing" coppers from breeders who instead of just having them die want to sell them and make atleast a small profit.Most coppers I see that are in good shape and feeding can be obtained for between 35 and 60 dollars. These are feeding however. I dont keep coppers myself but hope to one day have some trans pecos . I understand from a friend that has breed them the babies have an affection for eating Nerodia and glass lizards.

[BWSmith]

Nerodia? That doesn't sound right to me.

And yes, it is all about location too. I actually had to pay $25 each for my Broadband Copperhead babies.

[Tim and Julie B]

If everyone is doing wild collecting (gravid females) how is that effecting the population. I couldn't agree more that once you take on the responsibility of owning a reptile eating snake you are obligated to feed it no matter what you feel about feeding other reps. And as you say Coppers are cheap so why pay more for food right. As long as it isn't impacting the native population. I just have always liked Coppers since I was a kid and they told me to stay away from them in Texas. :D Peaked my interest. I heard it is difficault to get corals to eat do you have any tricks or did you just get a good eater from the get go? TB

[Mustangrde1]

Brian that is what i thought also. But i have had a pigmy eat one. I caught a pigmy and through it in the collection box , while i was doing that i noticed another snake and it was a very young nerodia i through it in and saw another and so on , after 20 minutes i finally stopped to sepperate snakes in to bags and when i opened the box Mr pigmy had Mr Nerodia 3/4 down its mouth.

Tim and Julie . I dont care how much a snake cost be it free or 1000$ dollars you need to take care of any animals in your care is how i see it. 3 of the most beautiful animals in my collection were gifts and also 3 of my biggest headaches very beautiful false corals from south america

[SCReptiles]

We keep our snakes on newspaper for the most part. What I did differently was put the corals on cypress mulch and also placed them in a dark container. We do not mess with them except to clean, feed, and water. I gave them about an inch of mulch to assure they can completely burrow in it and kept it moist. We gave them about 2 weeks to settle in, then we put an eastern king in each cage. Next day both kings where gone. Next week offered each another eastern king. This time I watched to assure they were eating them, as I though it may be possible the kings pushed thru the air holes. The smaller coral grabbed his and pulled it under the mulch almost immediately. The larger one didn’t pay any attention to the king at first. I checked back in about an hour and saw 2 inches of the tail sticking out of the corals mouth. The smaller one stays burrowed and eats under the mulch. The larger is not very shy. He stays on top of the mulch most of the time and usually eats on top as well. I bought several CB 2003 coppers at the Columbia show this year. One of them died about 2 weeks later. I laid it in the cage with the smaller coral and he pulled it under soon as I laid it in. I had heard they do not like to eat snakes with keeled scales, so I was a bit surprised. I wasn’t sure if there was a potential problem with the coral swallowing the copper venom, so I did a little research and as it turns out, coppers are commonly offered as food, so called a few people and purchased several non-eaters, of course one is an eater now. Ha ha. Thus far our corals have not proven to be as difficult to keep as people say. Of course we had done quite a bit of research before bringing them in. BW and Chris Harper had both been keeping them for a while and I picked their brains for info before getting a pair. I am concerned about attempting to breed them in the spring. There is just something unsettling about putting to known snake eaters together. =) About the natural copper populations, as far as my area goes they are very strong. Actual snake hunters are very limited in number. I think I probably know all venomous hunters/keepers within 100 miles of me, barring some unknowns there are only about 10 of us, so no great numbers are being collected. At least one of us will not sell the babies for food (jerk ha ha.) He collects the females, waits for them to drop and then will give babies to anyone wanting them then release the mothers and the babies back. He does this hoping to get morphs from the new born. BW, before you start, I know DNR says you shouldn’t release after they have been held with other snakes, but bear in mind, I am not the one doing this. If it were up to me, I’d take all the babies. Ha ha.

[jay72]

Chuck,

Have you tried ringnecks? I have a nice size coral that will only eat ringnecks. I have offered corns, anoles, and yellow rats, he doesnt even touch them, I throw a ringneck in there and its gone!

A few months back there was a coral advertised by a dealer for $500 that was supposed to be a pinky eater!


Sloane

[SCReptiles]

No, I haven’t. Is yours doing well on them? I have heard few people say ringnecks are toxic to corals??? My big one was advertised as a rodent feeder, but he hasn’t paid any attention to any rodents we put in with him. Next spring I am going to try scenting some mice and wrapping them in snake shed to see if they will take them. For now I am just trying to get plenty of weight on them for the cooling.

[BWSmith]

Ringnecks are too toxic. Unless the snake is raised on them it is too great a risk for me. I have seen too many Corals die the day after eating a ringneck.

Actually Chuck, i have no problem releasing snakes back into the wild as long as they were kept in quarentine and away from other snakes. This minimizes the chance of pathogens entering a wild population. It is always best to live by "when it is out of the wild, it is out for good", But particularly in areas where numbers are few, I personally don't have a problem with it. But IF I was to release, i would try to put it back where it was captured. I just don't live far enoug in the sticks to feel comfortable releasing a venomous species.

[BWSmith]

Chuck, if he takes frozen thawed snakes then trick him into rodents. Cut a feeder snake in half and attach a pinkie to the cut end. He will suck it down with the rest of the snake. Eventually you will down to putting a cornsnake head on a pinkie like a hat. With any luck, it will get to the point of not even needing scenting.

Just remember that rodents are not the natural prey of Corals and a sustained diet of rodents are too fatty and will cause liver problems in the future.

[jay72]

Chuck and BWSmith

I was recently told the same thing. But as of now, all he has been accepting is ringnecks and he seems to doing fine. I will continue to try other things. I have not yet offered it skinks.

BWSmith,

A friend of mine did that exact same thing with his baby King. It is now accepting rat pups.

Sloane

[BWSmith]

I have heard of many people feeding Corals Ringnecks with success. My personal feeling is that if it builds up a tolerance to the toxins, it will be fine. But if it eats, say Dekayii or Cornsnakes as 90% of its diet, the toxins from a Ringneck may have adverse effects. In the cases I have seen wher Ringnecks killed a Coral, it was not the primary food source. It was a food of opportunity or neccessity when primary food souces were unavailable. Within a few hours of consuming the ringneck it was regurgitated and within a few more hours, the Coral had expired.

[Mustangrde1]

Brian and Chuck. If you guys are in need of Dekay's and other smaller feeders I normally just pass them up when im cruising but I can grab a few if you need them , I have a road that is normally loaded with Dekays. funny enough I have never seen a coral on that road live or dead. Yet a road not 3 miles away loaded with ratsnakes and watersnakes I find a decent number of corals. Same road ive seen moccs eating raod kill toads. So that brings up this subject could the corals be feeding on the toads and frogs ?

Sloan If you like field collecting and picture taking shoot me an e-mail I always welcome company if you want to ride along. Nothing can phase me after having ray jump out of my truck flip flops flying to get a mocc. e-mail is Mustangrde1@aol.com. Just title it Roadcruising. I tend to delete e-mails i dont know who or what they are from.

Scott

[Tim and Julie B]

Wow very informative thanks for answering my questions.

[BWSmith]

Unfortunately, even with my permits in GA, I am limited to 2 live specimens of each native nonvenomous species. makes it tough for feeding. Since my coral seems to only want to take live prey. :(

[Mustangrde1]

Brian that makes it tough keeping a supply on hand. What is thier possition on frozen reptiles?

[BWSmith]

I got differing answers about frozen herps. But my Coral wont take dead prey anyway. Pitty, I have abag full of baby gray rats that he wont touch. Maybe if he gets hungry enough.

[SCReptiles]

I have a good home for those frozen gray rats. =)

[jaybox_reptiles]

thats kool lol

[SCReptiles]

Scott, we can use any smaller snakes that you can pick up. I live in TN and can keep them till they are needed. =) Also I will buy crook back or non-eating corns, rats, etc if you or ray have any.

[althena]

LOL. I had no idea they would do that. nice collection, btw.