Monitor Keeper Tools: Temp Guns

[Ravi]

Great. I think starting a new thread for each topic will be easier to follow and reference than one long one. So I'll start a new one for each topic we cover.

So here is what we have so far. Gloves can be used for:

<ol>
<li>Confidence in handling
<li>Lessening bite damage
<li>Removing hot light bulbs
<li>Protection from scratches (probably most useful)
<li>Moving cage furniture
</ol>

Some people say that handling large monitors with gloves is cumbersome. I would say the same is true for <i>small</i> monitors since you'll have a harder time feeling them. Better yet, use a thinner set of gloves for the small monitors to increase your feel.

Other methods may prove more reliable for bigger monitors.

A side note about gloves and light bulbs. For people who use those pet store bulbs i.e. special UV bulbs, it should be noted that when you handle them with your bare hands you leave oil from your skin on them. This lessens the life of the bulb significantly. Just a word of caution.

The next item on the list is <b>Temperature Guns</b>. It think it would only make sense to cover <b>thermometers</b> (all types) in this section too.

I'll get it started by saying that knowing your basking surface temps is an important part of husbandry. We might disagree when it comes to what baksing temps are needed/used but that discussion is not the intention of the thread.

Lets go.

[asphyxia]

I actually have a few questions on temp. guns.

My understanding is that they read the surface temp. of what ever they are pionted at, - after saying that, if all is equal, would a rock not be a different temp than a branch, or the damp earth?.

Note: for extreme measures lets say the surface temp of water compaired to steel

Now, even medium sized monitors are 3-6 " higher than say the branch that thay may be basking on, in this case would you get
somthing- wood for instance, and hold it at the appropiate height
then aim at that, to measure the temp?

BTW, The above concerns is why i am still using a digital probe Thermometer.

Why should I change?

Thanks
Brian

[V.hb]

Brian, Temp guns arent placed inside an enclosure, they're used for all your enclosures. It's a quick read, and way to determine the temps at any given spot. You do it, its the same idea as pointing a gun at the tree, rock bask whatever, you aim shoot get a read and go onto the next enclosure.

[SHvar]

You could use a probe and check ambient temps all day but surface temps dont read very good with a probe at all. You could get a temp gun and find your baskinf temps are too high or too low after you thought they were fine for years. If a basking spot takes a period of time to get up in temps then youll be holding a probe against the spot for over an hour to get a accurate temp.

[asphyxia]

Hmm, I think that you guys not getting my point.

... no problem. I knew it would be hard to understand via a post

Thanks
B

[enso]

Originally posted by asphyxia
Now, even medium sized monitors are 3-6 " higher than say the branch that thay may be basking on, in this case would you get
somthing- wood for instance, and hold it at the appropiate height
then aim at that, to measure the temp?

In that case you point it at the animal in question, snake, monitor, ect.

[skinheaddave]

This is one thing I don't have. Given that it would save me a lot of time with the "leave the termometer in place" technique and provide more accurate readings to boot, I think I'll get one. Where would I go about purchasing such a contraption?

Cheers,
Dave

[enso]

Someone from Canada may be able to point you direction of local stores, but you can also do a search on the web. Raytek makes the best IR temp guns on the market. www.raytek.com

[Tim and Julie B]

Ravi is selling some in the other classifieds here on ssnakess.

[Steeve B]

np

[Ravi]

Lots of good info in these posts.

Brian, I do get what you are saying. Here is what I think the point is that people are trying to get across.

Temp guns are great for getting a quick readout of the surface temps of whatever it is that you choose to shoot it at. <b>One</b> of the ways monitors bask is by sunning themselves on a warm surface. Heat is transferred to them from above and below this surface. Your point about taking the actual height of the monitor into account is understood but the the actual surface temp that the monitor will be basking on is what we are interested in. We could also get into the whole discussion on whether basking out in the open is preferred by the monitor or not.....but that would probably take us on a tangent :)

Like Tim and Julie said, I do have a limited quantity of <i>affordable </i> temp guns available. I don't want to take up much of this thread with that though, so see the classifieds here.

Interesting point about the females cycling Steeve. I'll have to try that.

What about probe thermometers? Are potential nesting site temps important in any way? Can you use a heat gun in that application? Everyone is free to jump in here, don't feel shy.

--Ravi--

[Tim and Julie B]

I would think in this case a probe would be better to get a temp reading in small openings like burrows, under and behind things that you can't point a gun around. Because to get an accurate reading with a gun you would have to disturb something which corrupts the results anyways. Different tools for different applications. TB

[asphyxia]

Great Info Steve, I will get one ASAP

Thanks'
Brian

[Steeve B]

Ravi I really can’t say if this who’d be accurate on smaller varanid as the mass is different, let me try to explain! Monitors are capable of generating some heat, this heat mostly comes from digesting material, lets call this the (engine) and the fat bodies (tank reserve)
Now every monitor have both Engine and Tank reserve, now think of them as air compressors, the bigger the tank reserve the less the engine needs to work.

In smaller varanid the reserve is smaller therefore the engine must work harder to sustain internal temps; they must bask more often and feed more frequently. As larger varanid can feed on large food quantity and this will sustain them for a longer period of time, allowing more and longer internal heat production, all they need to keep this system going is to absorb some solar heat from above and surfaces.

Basically that’s the attributed role of fat bodies, stored fat preserve body heat and protects internal organs, while new fat feeds follicles, when the female isn’t supplied with a constant food source she takes it from new fat, stopping the cycling process.

As for probe thermometers I use an 18in model sold to farmers to read heat and humidity in hey balls, very useful tool, this one reveals hidden secrets.

By the way! This is the physical reason why males are seen and trapped more then females!
They have less fat reserves, they need to remain more active to replenish and absorb heat more often to sustain activity.



Rgds

[Linds]

Temp guns are invaluable for anyone that keeps reptiles IMHO. They pay for themselves over and over. Especially for those with larger collections. Not only do you not have to place anything in the cage (increased safety), but it also gives instant readings on any place you point it. You can easily get 60 readings in a minute... try that with a digital thermometer! You can also bring them anywhere, such as airports when picking up animals to check the arrival temps and whatnot. I got mine at Crappy Tire (in the automotive department) for $160 I think it was. I would imagine the price has gone down from then since they weren't as common place as they are now. The prices of temp guns seems to be going down a lot everywhere to where they are affordable.

<img src="http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/22kittytemp.jpg">

[Kyle Barker]

IM curious, how safe is that light? Not that anyone would intentionaly pointin somethings eye's, but what if?

[Edwin]

The light is just an LED to help you pinpoint where the temp gun is taking a reading.

[SHvar]

The devices have a warning that states may cause temporary to permanent blindness, or retina damage, and to never point it in anyone or anythings eyes. I guess if your curious then try it on yourself dont debilitate some harmless animal out of curiosity. Makes me really question when someone asks something like that, if this person should be responsible for another life form.
I use a few laser devices at home over the years, with no risk of it happening ever. It would have to be intentional to have that happen.

[V.hb]

It takes long exposure to the lazer to cause any long term effects.

[Stockwell]

I did quite a bit of research a couple years back before purchasing my IR thermometer.
Raytek, is indeed the leader in the field, but many of the cheaper ones are only accurate to plus or minus 2 degree C which is almost 4 F degrees. That's not very good when it comes to Python eggs. If you're reading 90F it could be 94 or 87

What I discovered is that they make an inexpensive unit for the food industry and it has a more narrow range, but is perfect for our use in herpetology. It's also quite inexpensive at about 100US.($150 cdn)
I purchased 3 Food temps, Two for myself and 1 for Craig Stewart(Urban Gecko).
They were about 150 bucks, and a great deal. Small enough to fit in your shirt pocket. The have a nice back light, and lazer, and an auto hold function.. They will display in C or F... Very nice little unit
I love mine and have one upstairs and one downstairs.
You have to get them from industrial suppliers.
Got mine from Anderson Controls.
The part number is RAYMT-FS It's called the Raytek minitemp Food safefy. It's mostly sold to the restaurant industry.
It's rated accuracy is plus/minus 1 degree C..

If you need more accuracy than that, Raytek has them, but they are bigger units worth a few hunded or more
Here's a link to the model I'm talking about on the Raytek
website
http://www.raytek-northamerica.com/cat.html?cat_id=2.3.6

[Jeff_Favelle]

Holy smokes Roy, that's awesome! Have you tried to test it to see how accurate it is?

[Edwin]

Here is the model Roy is talking about:

http://www.infrared-usa.com/Product.asp?Param1=RAYMTFS&Param2=22


http://www.infrared-usa.com/Files/22/raymtfs.jpg


I have seen them for sale in Toronto, but cannot remember where exactly. They were in high demand during the SARS outbreak. My IR thermometer is similar to what Ravi has, except I got it from Radioshack in the US. According to the manual, the accuracy is +/- 4 deg F, or +/- 2.5% of reading, whichever is higher.

[Jeff_Favelle]

+/- 4F is useless for me. My hand can feel +/- 4F for crying out loud.

[Steeve B]

Important I wanted peoples to understand how variable can be highly important.
On this photo aim trying to illustrate a very common mistake often leading to incubation failure. The grey heat gun is my favorite everyday tool, however its unsuitable for any précis readings, the smaller and cheaper $60 medical thermo-scan is far more précis, this is why I use it for reliable incubation readings.
See I took 5 deferent readings on the Hot water glass, the Thermo-scan gave me accurate readings 95.6f every time, the heat gun gave me five deferent results, needles to say shod you rely on the heat gun for your incubation, your in trouble!

Also I who’d like to say! I tested many brands of heat guns, they all performed quit similar, except for Medicals, perhaps the best advising is to obtain models with 9volt battery.

I haven’t tried the food raytek, however I did try 4 of there models and wasn’t impressed except be the high $$

Rgds

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/959thermo_scan-med.jpg

[Steeve B]

Why a 9volt battery? Simply cause they are a safety item every herper shod have, we need them for fire detectors, no herp room shod be without! OK enough with the preaching!
The truth is when ever my heat guns battery is dead, I snitch one off the fire detector, handy don’t you think? hihi


http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/959Photo-med.jpg

[asphyxia]

Steve,

Where do you find the guns above, are they at drugstores?
Are they used in the same manner as the gray one with the red buttom 2 posts up

Thanks
Brian

[Jeff_Favelle]

I totally agree with Steeve B!! I would never use a temp-gun for incubating!!! Not in a million years. I mean, unless they make an x-ray one that can see through wood, insulation, rubber, more wood, plastic liner, and then a Rubbermaid. LOL! Theremometers with probes are for incubators. Temp-guns are for basking spots.

Now Steeve, where can I get those guns you were talking about? And they still make 9-volt batteries? Holy moly! LOL!! :D

[Steeve B]

Well the Heat gun is the same model Linds talked about, Thermo scan is a probe gun and must have direct contact to get any reading, its designed for ear or rectal use in humans, available in any drug mart. The best way to use it is to simply lean it on top of any plastic egg container! And you get the exact temperature in a second, you don’t have to open the container, the accuracy of this tool is unmatched yet! However the next best thing is a needle probe sold by farm supplies, the same unit is now available with a thinner needle use in the meat industry , what’s fun about these devises! You can get nesting site temps without disturbing your animals, you can also when working with large egg containers stick them thru an 1/4in hole and get both humidity and heat without disturbing the eggs.
Rgds

[Mwoxy]

Something to be aware of with infra red thermometers is the spot to distance ratio. With many of the larger (Raytek) units it's in the region of 1:8 ie at 8cm's you are measuring a spot of 1cm diameter or a 12.5 cm spot at a metre. Some of the cheaper/smaller units have a 1:2 ratio, so at a meter you are measuring a 50cm spot, not particularly useful and potentially very misleading. Otherwise they are great, just know your tools.

Cheers Mark

[SHvar]

Its an "Extech non-contact IR thermometer 42529". Its a 6:1 distance to spot reading, accurate to 1 degree+/- f or c. I couldnt find the place I ordered it from, but I did find a new price of $158.00, after I only payed $72. When I found it originally I checked prices in 4 businesses. It works great and is very accurate. I had one from Proexotics for a few years (gave it to a friend) accurate to about 9 or so inches and small.