Spectacled Caiman

[snakemann87]

Hey everyone.....at the past reptile show I came across an American Alligator(yes I know the title says CAIMAN). WELL....I asked how old and he said about 4yrs of age and only like 3ft! Now I found that awesome........

I REALLY REALLY want a Crocodilian of some sort......so I did some research. The average size for Gators is about 4-5 meters.......WAY TOO LARGE! Now I did MORE research and read Spectacled Caimans reach about 1-2 meters average...that is reasonable.

So if this information is true I am going to start saving up for a laaaaaarge aquarium to accomodate this Caiman. I'm looking to get it in about 2-3years about.

Does anyone own them? How much did they cosT? Hows their temperment?

Thanks

[NewLineReptile]

You can get them for about $100 CDN

Brandon

[NewLineReptile]

I also like them here is a pic of my little one i had

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/512/1639lexus.jpg

Brandon

[snakemann87]

Awesome hes great!

What is their correct size? I am being told like 10ft but I dont believe it. I got my info from a good site.

[JD@reptiles]

they are hissy and mean as the get bigger... and you will be very superised at how strong crocs can be! when the caiman is full grown, you better be ready to give it its own bed room though. crocs need a lot of room! here is a pic of an older one

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/562dsc00057-med.jpg

[stkkts]

damn,.....im only like 5 foot 10 inches tall. I cant imagine owning an animal like that, thats as big as me.

[snakemann87]

Well what is a NICE Crocodilain(at least the "nicest" if there is such a thing?)

[JD@reptiles]

if i could house it properly, i would get a gator.

[snakemann87]

YEah they are too large though........even females

[JD@reptiles]

you relise though that even a spec will need somthing about 8x8 minimum. i would go with a whole 11x11 room though

[snakemann87]

Yeah i nkow......that is along way away though.

[ReptiZone]

somthing that JD did not mention is that you don't catch a adult Caimen like you want well for that mater you dont catch a 4 foot caiman like you want. I am sure JD will tell you the one in that pic gave him a good run for his money on accasion.

You see Specticaled caimans are one of few Crocodilians that can come back on there tails at any age, you see it alot in Baby gators and baby crocodiles. But a 6 foot caiman with a nervous disposition and the abilaty to turn back on you and snap you when you think you are safley behind them will make you quickly realise you would rather wrestel a 12 foot gator then a 6 foot Spectacled Caiman.

a spectacled Caiman can not just be grabed from behind and hop for the best you need a team there to help you coordinate the capture and it can get ugly if the person or worst the team is not experienced.

I will end on that note becaus we talked on MSN and you seem to get my point so have fun looking at the dwarf species.

[snakemann87]

I LOOOOOOOOVE the Cuvier Dwarf Caiman

[BAZ]

Better to spend the extra money on a cuviers or schneiders dwarf caiman now because it will still be cheaper for you in the long run.

They say a spectacled caiman can get up to 8ft (although I havn't seen one that size yet) but even at 6ft long imagine the space it would need and the size of pond you would need to build for it.

www.crocodilian.com has some very good info on all the species and about what is required for their care.

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

12-15' are not as common as they once were and very hard to witness in captivity. Female alligators reach about 6-7' an extremely large female would be considered around 8-9' If you ever see a female bigger than that, consider yourself extremely lucky. Males do get about 10' once in a while and in some zoos you may even see a 12-13'er.. Maybe. It is said that crocodilians should grow about a foot a year if kept properly, this of course varies from bloodline, health, food, enclosures, ect. Other crocodilians ie. Salties and niles tend to grow a bit faster, some reaching 4' in a yr. If I were you, I would get an alligator. A lot more placid relatively slow growing, rarely refuse a meal, more cold tolerant and the such. A spectacle is basically hell on limbs, you'll have water all over the place inside or out, most times when they catch sight of you, incredibly strong. Ive been knocked over while holding struggling 4'ers more than once, and it seems they always have an open mouth when you come about. An alligator may huff and puff but alot of times usually hit you with a closed mouth, just a scare. A spec, means business. Also, a spec will grow anywhere from 4-7' plus specs tend to be finicky eaters when it comes to cold weather.. You can expect to pay a few hundred dollars. You could use wide based bricks and line the bottom with a rubber pond liner and build a deck like thing extending from it, or you could just use a ramp, or you could line the floor with 3/4" plywood to the height of your pond and sink your pond into the new "floor". There are many ways to build a unique enclosure, be creative.. Remember. it's the housing requirements that are important, not the looks. Everyone has there idea but personally I like to use the German rule "G. Law" which generally means that housing should consist of Land being 3 x Snout to vent length by 4 x SVL. and water being 4 x SVL by 5 x SVL. Meaning that a crocodilian that is 4.5 feet long, you'd need a cage where the land was roughly 6ft by 8ft, and the water section was 8ft by 10 ft. Another way to do it is having an enclosure that when the animal is on land it could turn completely around with out touching either sides or water in the process..
On the other hand, babies generally need smaller enclosures than that of the
"G. law" You could use the law when it comes to them but when I have a 9" crocodilian I normally house one in a 30g breeder tank. This way I know it's eating and is healthy and hatchlings like the confinements.. Makes them feel safer and less stressed. Also, I keep forgetting to add this when asked about housing but if your wintering areas for your animal is just for the winter you can use a smaller enclosure. A water area big enough for your animal to sit in and be able to turn around with out touching the sides is fine. A smaller land area works as well. Most of the time during the winter, crocodilians can sense the cold and relatively become inactive and alot of times turn down feedings, but it still should be offered food at least once a week. I think I covered all of it..
Xain

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

By the way, here's a pic of a ramp system I was talking about. Had to use this last winter. Not all of the crocs co-inhabit the ponds during the winter..
http://ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/1227Water_trough-med.JPG

[Sunrunner]

Crocodilians are awesome but difficult to own, however if you are as serious as you sound I would recommend against a spec. Of the seven crocodilians I have owned I have found my gator, Mikey, to be the easiest to care for, for all the reasons listed by Xain and because he seems to be the most adaptable to new enclousures, foods, etc. A close second though would be my Curviers Caimen they are slightly more difficult, but of the two I've had, I have found them to be relatively docile, slower growing and VERY cool looking (all spikey and sharp edged, very dangerous look :) Do your research and make an informed decision, just to give you an idea a 1/4 of my full basement houses my gator and another 1/4 houses my croc, my spec I use to have was only a 1' or so and had a 100 gallon aquarium 60/40 water to land. All croco's need space, are really messy, and EAT. And they really have bad attitude problems. But they are awesome and impressive, in my opinion the MOST impressive herp to own. Good Luck, by the way I've never had one but I have heard good things about Yacre caimens, ask about them, they might just be your bag.

[snakemann87]

Thanks alot

I am DEAD serious here and am not taking this lightly what so ever.

So although the size of the Gator is much larger you'd reccomend it?

[Sunrunner]

A gator is not that much larger then a spec really and alot easier to handle. I wouldn't recommend it either over one of the dwarf caimens (curviers) though. If that works out look into a gator. Or if you have the room and the money get a baby gator and as it grows you will learn about it and how to handle it properly. Depends what you want in the end. Definately go Gator or Curviers though.

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

If you get a Paleosuchus of either sort, I'd wear gloves when they get older.The Osteoderms on the animals tend to hurt the hand, or at least mine when they go into the whole, Dude, let me go phase..

[snakemann87]

I think I'll go with a gator....they seem to be more "approchable" if you work with them. THe one I saw at the show was just on the table....no bands on its mouth or nothing...VERY calm

[BWSmith]

My only hope is that you will obey laws where live. And since you are going to go to school in AZ where you cannot keep them there, i can rest alittle easier.

[Sunrunner]

Your afraid of a little gator and yet you are the American Hot keeper??????lmao

[BWSmith]

I have worked with enough gators, caimans, and crocs over the years. From baby gators and 6 footers, dwarf and Spec caimans, to Nile Crocs and many in between. They ARE NOT easy to deal with. The power is mind boggling. The care needed is amazing. Most private animals die as a result of inproper care (mainly inability of the owner). I have also seen first hand the damage these animals can inflict. It takes a rare person to care for them properly and safely. And this prospective owner .......... ugggh ........ I, personally would not trust with a stuffed gator head. I have read literally hundreds of his posts. And this is, in my opinion, a flavor of the week. And at the risk of offending members here, I have to also say that I am disturbed by the support offered without knowing the experience or maturity level of the prospective owner. I shudder to think if the (responsible) venomous community did question prospective keepers before offering support, guidance, "wow cool"s, and "Best of luck to you"s.

I am all for people's rights to keep what they wish. But as responsible keepers of boids, colubrids, crocs or hots, it is our duty to point out when someone is making a mistake, no matter if it is fatal to the animal or to the person. If he truly wants to get a gator (of course he changed his mind so it obviously doesnt matter as long as it is a crocodylian), then he will get one. Nor me, nor any other person can tell him different (as he has already demonstrated). And noone can tell him that he CANNOT get one. Free will. In the end, it is up to him, as much as it pains me to say. I can only hope that in the time lapse until he plans to get one, common sense will alter his choice.

These are my opinions, harsh as they may be. It is not an attack. It is an opinion formed after reading hundreds of posts by him, knowing his plans (as portrayed by him), knowing his experience (again, as conveyed by him), and knowing his maturity level and length of foresight (as obvious by MANY posts). If he gets a gator so be it. I know several people that should not have them and got them anyway, despite the same opinions I present here. Guess what happened. The animal died, the animal was gotten rid of, or the owner went to the hospital. That is the voice of experience dealing with unprepared owners.

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

I have to also say that I am disturbed by the support offered without knowing the experience or maturity level of the prospective owner. I shudder to think if the (responsible) venomous community did question prospective keepers before offering support, guidance, "wow cool"s, and "Best of luck to you"s.


I don't see why.. I'm not going to say you can't have something becauseyou are immature, hell, Im immature. The experience isn't much of a validation being, he is on the internet. I've had 8 years dealing with American crocodiles.
True or false? Point being on this, is he could be anything, or anyone and a simple search can answer most questions we give him to prove he is who he is.. Basically, I see it a waste of time, unless I could talk to him in person. I will guide him the way he wants to go. I will help him, or any other who is thinking about a crocodilian. I'm not here to judge who is or isnt ready, hell it's his decision, mental or physical.
I see your terms and veiws. I do not know or follow most of his posts. I dont really read most posts from anyone, unless the heading is catchy or a response. I do not condemn myself fit enough to tell anyone they are not ready, or whatknot to keep anything, so I will not even bring it up. I will tell him the what he asked, what he may want to know or anything I see important, and if I did this I am at ease. I'm already keeping my animals with permits and being one of few allowed to keep alligators, I guess I may be biased..
I would do the same if anyone asked these same questions on any hot I keep or kept. If they did, it'd be more than I did when I first started...
I will give my guidence for anyone who asks without internetly questioning, giving a "Wow cool" isn't in my state of mind though.

it is our duty to point out when someone is making a mistake,

What has he said to make you say it would be a mistake? Hell, at least he is asking questions and guidence before he got the animal, cant say that to most of the people in this hobby.. I dunno' I just can't judge someone by posts he has posted, or at least yet I haven't. I haven't read most of his posts, if he attacked someone for one reason or another, his deal. There's been times I've wanted to do the same, but I realize if I did this, it'd be removed therefor being a waste of my time. Hell, most people dont even pay attention to my posts. I've learned several things here, not herp related either. I do not see a judgement either way. To me, I will post how I see him, and as I see it, he is taking the steps any good keeper would. Ask questions. I do believe he chose against an alligator because of the size limit. Not everyone can house an animal of large size, and being they can reach large sizes, why even consider if you can't house it all the way? Go with the alternative. At least he is still in the same Family..
And for the record, he can keep an alligator or any crocodilian of any sort, permitted of course, but you can. '87 as for John Conneally, I believe he still does the permits at AG&F.. But get your own place.

Chondro, when you say come back on their tails, how many species/ssp are you including? By the way, Alligators do and can "Come back on their tails"

[nolagurl]

I grew up and still live in Southeast Louisiana. I literally had the swamp as my backyard when I was a kid and I've seen many alligators up close and personal.

They can get HUGE.

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

Hey Nola, How big was the largest one you've seen there? Ya' know the recorded record beast was from LA..
Xain

[cpt_nuke21]

NICE CROC., I ALSO NOTICED THAT YOU HAVE A GOLF CLUB NEXT TO YOUR TANK. WHAT IS THAT FOR BEATING YOUR CROC OFF YOUR LEG?:)

[lakeridgekennel]

here is my big girl tess she is a 6 1/2 foot amarican aligator

she is dog tame and one of my best freinds and the best animal i own!!

I hope you like her!! sorry about the bad pic!

[JD@reptiles]

wow, thats nice.

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

I thought in the ad on the reptile auction that the animal was 5'? Nice animal either way. Xain

[RachelS.]

I'm not into helping you with this because I already made a long @$$ post on redtailboa.net for you that I'm not going to repeat. But here's a good site if you're really serious. I thought it included some very helpful information (which I'm going to use when getting my crocodilian) http://www.algonet.se/~prl/croc/ . You should also try http://www.crocodilian.com ... that's the best site out there right now for croc infomation and such.

[LadyHawke]

i dont think there is anything wrong with making suggestions that someone should think twice about getting a crocodilian, either for the animals sake and any people involved, its careless owners and ones who dont think it carefully thru that raises the red flags for people who dont think we should own these animals and have laws placed so that we are not allowed to own them, all it does it hurt responsible keepers in the end