columbian boa arrival

[LORI34205]

I am getting a columbian boa asap and i have read on several care sheets the temps to keep the hot spot and gradient but, my mom hates snakes to death and will only let me keep it outside I have a cage constructed in all im just worried about temps.I live in bradenton florida and it gets mighty warm down here in summer.he will be in the shade at all times but im worried it will be to warm for him.Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated thankyou.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Don't get a snake until you have the means to keep it properly. No need to be cruel just because you WANT something.

[Zoe]

Ditto what Jeff said. Unless you can have a proper, controlled environment (INDOORS. You live in Florida, NOT South America!), don't keep a snake. Simple as pie.

Zoe

[Invictus]

I agree with Zoe and Jeff. Do not get the snake if you cannot keep it indoors.

[LORI34205]

well im doin it,i checked temps today and it was 97 degrees outside in direct sun today, that is one of the hottest days we will have in a summer and in the enclosure the temps did not break 90,and with a very large rubbermaid to soak in he will be plenty cool enough.My friend has a columbian boa in the same conditions and has had him in the same enclose outside for 8 years now. and throws a heating pad on him in winter and hes fine.Thankyou for all your opinions but im gonna have to go with the snake anyway. Seems how this is mainly a canadian sight it is probly kind of hard for most of you to tell how close we are to the water and how the temps are for a snake.He will be in a 4x8x5 custom built enclosure.BTW a columbian red tail boa a columbian boa and a red tail boa are all the same snake am i correct?I have read on the but it is confusing,are they all boa constrictor imperator?
thankyou everyone

[ohh_kristina]

I live in florida as well and there is NO way i would keep one of my snakes out doors. First of all, there is a cold front moving through sometime next week. You'll have to deal with that all winter. It is not suitable for a snake!! Plus, there are ticks and mites outside. You don't want your snake exposed to that. Do NOT get this snake unless you are completely able to house and care for it properly. A female colombian boa can get upwards to 8 feet long, are you prepared for that? They are great snakes and I would recommend them, but only if you can keep it in a controlled environment.

[Invictus]

Originally posted by LORI34205
Seems how this is mainly a canadian sight it is probly kind of hard for most of you to tell how close we are to the water and how the temps are for a snake.

Oh, I see, so because we're Canadian, we have no idea what 97 degrees is like? How ignorant can you be? I live in Calgary, which is right next to the mountains, and we get fairly mild summers up here, but we still hit 100 + during late August! So don't assume that our recommendation is because we Canadians have a hard time knowing what 97 degrees is like or what it's like to be close to water. The bottom line is, Florida still gets storms. Your snake will also be exposed to ticks, mites, and all kinds of other nasties being outside. THAT is why we are recommending against it.

[Zoe]

UOTE]well im doin it[/QUOTE]
Then IMO, you're just stupid. I hate to insult people, but you're going against advice and obvious common sense and planning on putting a snake in danger. That is stupid.

enclosure the temps did not break 90
The snake should have a high side of almost that temp all the time... what happens on the COLDEST day of winter??? What do you plan to do then? And how do you think this snake will thermoregulate... or do you WANT to clean up regurgitated meals all the time and deal with a sick, dehydrated snake that will probably have mites and parasites.

Seems how this is mainly a canadian sight it is probly kind of hard for most of you to tell how close we are to the water and how the temps are for a snake. We might be Canadian but we aren't idiots when it comes to snakes (well, not all of us). Yes, you CAN keep a snake in those conditions, but NO it will not be healthy. Like I said before... FLORIDA ISNT SOUTH AMERICA! Boas aren't made to survive in native florida temps. And its one thing if it was living in the wild outside, but in this case it's going be stuck in a tiny cage (relative to nature)... with no where to escape mites, parasites, predators, bad temps, etc, etcn etc...

BTW a columbian red tail boa a columbian boa and a red tail boa are all the same snake am i correct?I have read on the but it is confusing,are they all boa constrictor imperator? Well, "red-tailed boa" is used very broadly... it can mean "colombian red-tailed boa" which, yes, is BCI. But it usually means GUYANA Red-Tailed Boas, SURINAM Red-Tailed Boas and so on, the BCCs aka the "true Red tails".

I do advise you NOT to get this snake. It is very, very selfish and cruel of you to keep something you want in bad conditions, just because you want it. It's like keeping a horse tethered in a 10'x10' backyard.

Zoe

[Jeff_Favelle]

BTW a columbian red tail boa a columbian boa and a red tail boa are all the same snake am i correct?I have read on the but it is confusing,are they all boa constrictor imperator?

If you are at the level of knowledge and inexperience that you don't even know the difference, then obviously you are not at a point where you should be making decisions to go against what EVERY reptile keeper on the planet will tell you. Clearly.

I feel bad for that snake and I feel bad for our hobby. Its people like you that are giving it a sketchy, irresponsible-type bad name.

[ohh_kristina]

I agree with Jeff_Favelle. To add to what I said before, it also rains a lot in here (in florida). Bradenton is known for being a major flood zone. I have family who live there. This is definately not suitable for a snake. Please refrain from getting this snake! You are not ready.

[LORI34205]

well quick reply:)
o ya did i specify that it would be in a 4x8x5
on stilts off the ground
its closed off and will be away from mites and ticks.I may end up turning my closet into a cage hmmmmmmmm

[foman]

Listen to everyone's advice they know what they're talking about , don't be ignorant

[Burm41]

Well i agree with all the people besides LORI34205 but i think your being way to hard on him.. well not really but atleast you could have said it in away that he didnt have to ***** at yall. I agree with Jeff on if you dont have the knowledge and experience to even know what a col. red tail and a red tail is then you are not even close to being ready to keep a snake... and its stupid to keep a snake outside...

[ohh_kristina]

a 4ft enclosure isn't going to be able to hold a good sized female boa. Maybe a male, but I prefer 5ft cages for males, and 6+ for females.

[LORI34205]

the floor is 4x8
thats 32 sq feet on the floor
plus 5 feet tall

[LORI34205]

im pretty sure thats a total of 160 sq feet
not sure

[ohh_kristina]

Oh, I must have skipped over the 8ft part. I think that is a little big, unless you're getting an older snake. A young boa needs a smaller, more secure enclosure.

[LORI34205]

o no ill probly start him or her in a 75 gallon



hopefully him

[Burm41]

Originally posted by LORI34205

its closed off and will be away from mites and ticks.

you are never going to get away from mites outside... no matter how good its closed and away from mites they can always get in.. and if it was closed off then there wouldnt be any vents am i correct?

[LORI34205]

if any canadians are offended,
sorry

[ohh_kristina]

I still don't think you should get this snake unless you're housing it indoors. A colombian boa, though they are common, is a big responsibility. Are you prepared to have to feed this thing large rats or rabbits on a regular basis? I think you should think about this a bit more.

[LORI34205]

not closed off
but not vented so ridiculously that the snake cannot get out.I have had iguanas outside for years and never had problems with mites

[LORI34205]

i know what im getting into on feeding im already feeding a savannah monitor and he eats like a hog.It just gets me mad that my mom likes the savannah but wont even look at a snake,literally.and the savannah is one of those nippy juveniles, u know what i mean

[ohh_kristina]

well, we've all given you advice. There are many people on this site, some of which have given you advice about this, that have been keeping snakes for years and are extremely experienced. I think you should take what we're saying to heart, but in the end, it's up to you. I just feel sorry for the snake that you're not thinking clearly about. :(

[LORI34205]

what is your feeding basis for yours?

[ohh_kristina]

My boa is just a baby and I'm already feeding her small rats every seven days. I have a feeling that once she gets about 6ft, I'll be feeding her rabbits whenever she acts hungry.

[LORI34205]

just curious but could someone make a list cosisting of all reasons u would not have him outside and then i will solve them and fix the problem,then i will get the snake.

[LORI34205]

u live in tampa?

[Jeff_Favelle]

if any canadians are offended,


I'm not offended as a Canadian. I'm offended as a reptile breeder and animal lover.

[ohh_kristina]

1. Mites and ticks
2. Weather

That should be enough. & you cannot control the weather.

[LORI34205]

well i have a roof over it,its under our porch.

[LORI34205]

that should take care of rain or direct sun

[ohh_kristina]

you are only making excuses! You cannot control the temperatures! You cannot control the humidity in the air! Give it up, please! For the sake of the freaking snake. I'm tired of replying to this thread. Reread this thread. There are experienced people telling you that this is not a good idea. What does that tell you!?

[LORI34205]

what can mites and ticks get through?or should i say how can mites and ticks get through plywood and vents.

[Burm41]

how hot does it get under the porch? I live in texas and it gets hot under my porch because the heat goes up and gets traped so its alittle hotter under my porch.. :|

[LORI34205]

i cant control humidity or temp but i can change it with lamps heating pads and humidifiers,or dehumidifiers

[Burm41]

well at this point im tierd of this thread too... all i can say is tell your mom to let your snake inside, reread this thread and figure it out that you are in no means of keeping a snake at this point

[LORI34205]

well its a open porch it more like a very big lean to kinda porch

[ohh_kristina]

This will be the last time I reply to this thread. You are obviously going to try and argue with me over this.
It is not a good idea!!

[Oliverian]

just curious but could someone make a list cosisting of all reasons u would not have him outside and then i will solve them and fix the problem,then i will get the snake.
You can't solve the problems of being outside, unless you put the cage inside. That should work for you... or do you not understand?
or should i say how can mites and ticks get through plywood and vents If your snake is able to breathe, they can get through. Keep it indoors, or wait until you move out to get this snake. Or, you could cut off all it's air, and have it die. I don't think it could get mites then....

[LORI34205]

i bet it would get some kind of mite or infestation if it died and i left it there

[Oliverian]

Sarcasm, lori, sarcasm. Please reconsider... just listen to what everyone is saying.

[LORI34205]

my mom doesnt like snakes because her cousin died from a water mocassin and now she thinks all snakes want to devour u!!that gets me so mad.Any ideas of what to tell her to just accept it that the odds arent very good that a columbian is going to lash at you rap u up and strangle u to death

[Jeff_Favelle]

Any ideas of what to tell her to just accept it that the odds arent very good that a columbian is going to lash at you rap u up and strangle u to death

Give her any one of the 400,000 books on snakes that tell the TRUTH about their natural history and life habits.

[JDouglas]

Mites can crawl and get into anything. They actually prefer to lay their eggs in the cracks of wood. You would be giving mites everything they need to thrive. Your cage would be mite heaven. If someone kept a boa outside in my town the neighbors would freak out. We would have laws banning snakes in no time. You will not be able to effectively control heat and humidity.

PS, if you feed your monitor a cricket based diet it may calm down. Here is some info from Pro Exotics...

Crickets or mealworms are offered 4 days a week, crawler mice (thawed) are offered once a week (typically two to three crawlers per animal), and turkey is offered once a week as well. We strongly encourage folks to feed meat no more than twice a week. Crickets should make up the bulk of a baby monitors diet, and the animal will grow terrifically if fed on supplemented crickets alone.

Meats are offered for additional protein and calories, but you must keep in mind that these are small babies, and as such have small digestive systems. Loading them down with too much meat will not only encourage compaction and digestion problems, but it will act like monitor steroids on these guys, and you will then have an aggressive terror on your hands. Many customers have called to ask about the aggressiveness of their new baby, and more often than not, it is the case that they simply enjoy watching their animal chase and eat the mice, and they have been feeding nearly an all meat diet. When switched back to a cricket based diet, these same animals return to their predictable, tractable selves, within a few weeks. Raise a terrific baby, not a holy terror, follow our recommended diet.

[Zoe]

i know what im getting into on feeding im already feeding a savannah monitor and he eats like a hog.
A savannah monitor is not an 8ft boa. nuff said.

what can mites and ticks get through?or should i say how can mites and ticks get through plywood and vents.
Easy. They are small, and will find access to a warm, constant source of food.

i cant control humidity or temp but i can change it with lamps heating pads and humidifiers,or dehumidifiers Ah.. okay, that makes sense. Get HUGE humidifiers and heaters and change the climate of the country, then the snake will be okay.

Here is a list you asked for. Even ONE of these elements should be enough to deter you:
1. You CANNOT control humidity. Even if you get a humidifier. The snake is living outdoors, so unless you change the world's climate...
2. You CANNOT control temperature. Throwing a little heat pad in the cage when it hits the coldest day of winter is not going to do much.
3. The snake CANNOT thermoregulate. Nuff said.
4. If it escaped, the snake is lost forever. At least, if it escaped in your house, you will find it. And don't tell me you're making an escape proof cage, because there is always a chance.
5. Floods, freak weather, etc etc etc. Sure, it's fairly unlikely, but why take the change.
6. Do you honestly plan to have this snake living in your backyard for 30 years? You're probably going to move out in a few years and keep it with you then, right? So why just not wait till then? Get a cornsnake or something.
7. You don't know the difference between a BCI and a BCC. That just SCREAMS ignorance from a person who thinks they are ready to keep a snake outdoors.
8. Parasites.
9. Mites.
10. Predators. Sure, they might not be able to get into the cage, but why stress the poor snake out for nothing?
11. Polution. There is lots of junk in the air... pesticides, exhaust. All of which is harmful.
12. What happens when your snake gets sick and you need to take 24/7 care of it? What will you do then?
13. You live in Florida, not Colombia. They are two very different areas of the world and with very different climates.

That should be more than enough to deter you.






I know this girl, and she wants to keep a snake in a cage outside. That makes me so mad!!!! Any ideas of what to tell her to just accept it that it's a stupid idea, and cruel and irresponsible?

[Linds]

Owning snakes is not a right, its a priveledge. There are many animals I would LOVE to keep, but simply do not have the space to suitably house it, the money to feed it, or whatever... but just because I want it doesn't mean I can have it. It's not fair to the animal, and incredibly selfish. Maybe one day when I get a home I will be able to, but until then I just have to respect the circumstances and the animals. Not to mention the harm that such irresponsible behaviour can have on the hobby. There is reason we are constantly having to fight, and are losing against, bans on reptiles as pets.

There is absolutely nothing under the sun you can do to make housing your snake outside suitable. Unless you turn in to Mother Nature of course. As Zoe said, you live in Florida, not Colombia.

I'm a bit puzzled why you ask for advice and then argue it and completely disregard all of it when you get it? This isn't the first post that this has happened in. Some of us are new to the hobby, some of us are old, all we have here is the snakes best interest at heart, while all you seem to have is your own. Please take the advice given in this thread. The reason everyone is getting so upset is because we are all honestly afraid for both the snake and the hobby.

[LORI34205]

o ya
thanks jdouglas for the savannah monitor diet it sounds like its right,i havent fed her much crickets since she was a wee little baby,now ive ben throwin mice at her once or twice a week

[LORI34205]

this is possibly the fastest growing thread ive ever seen,it got big prettty quick.fast replies:)

[JDouglas]

Check out this post from the VPI mail bag regarding outdoor enclosures. I think many of you will be surprised!

Dear VPI,
How did your outdoor cages for large constrictors work out? I heard that you had lots of health problems with keeping them outside. Someone in our area is going to try to keep big snakes outside all year with a dog house and pig blankets, we were talking about if it would work. Thanks Mike



Dear Mike,
In our outdoor cages were several large retics, several scrub pythons, one African rock python, olive pythons, and a pair of Argentine boas and a couple of big common boa females. We didn't have any Burmese in those cages.

Such health problems as we had with the outdoor snakes had nothing to do with being outdoors. The problem that we did encounter was that only the boas seemed to understand the concept of damaging cold weather. I really thought that as smart as retics and rocks are, that they would always come into the warm indoor area when it got cold. That just wasn't the case.

I think that they understood the concept of it being "uncomfortably cold" but they just didn't grasp the concept of "fatally cold." By which I mean that they usually came in when it got cold--but not always. And I would always check them on cold nights about 10 pm to be sure that they were in. Several times during very cold nights, after I had checked them, I had snakes go out into subfreezing weather. I found them apparently frozen the next mornings--but if I warmed them up slowly, they did come back to life apparently unharmed. I darn near autopsied the African rock one morning before I realized that she was alive.

Anyway, we found it worked out best to keep them confined to indoors all winter.

The funny thing was that the retics were out all night every night, but I never saw a retic out in the day. Not once did a retic bask, not even in cool sunny weather. The other snakes were only rarely out and active in the day, but they did go out once in awhile. But all-in-all, I think that the outdoor cages were a great way to keep the big snakes. They are economical and they are a safer way to work with big constrictors. I’m surprised that more keepers of big snakes don’t do it. DGB



Keep in mind they are located in Texas which is much closer to a boas natural conditions. They are also reffering to huge enclosures, not cages.

Again for the record I am against keeping a boa outside!

[LORI34205]

once again thankyou for the diet ideas and notes,i am going to my pet store and buying him bout 80 crickets,but i still have to have him on some meet so what do you think a good based diet would be?

[LORI34205]

floridas winters dont get so bad that a heat pad and lamp wont fix the temps:)But honestly for all the people out there(i know there are alot)who feel bad for the snake, i want u to know i am working on my mom to allow it to come in the house,my 4x8x5 enclosure was a last resort kinda thing,wish me luck:)

[ohh_kristina]

Lori, I live in Florida. It DOES get cold every now and then. I've seen it get in the 20s some winters. That is not suitable for snakes. Hell, 60s aren't suitable for snakes. A heat pad and heat lamp won't fix it. My bedroom used to stay in the 60s, because I liked it cold, and I found that I could never get the temps right in my cages because of that. When I upped the temps in my room to 74-76, my enclosures heated perfectly.

[LORI34205]

I just spoke with my mom and she said "when it storms outside and when winter comes the snake can stay in your room but if it comes out and i see a snake in my house i will stab it in the head"

[LORI34205]

so now i have to work on my closet,uggghh
u think its big enough,6x2 and halfx8

[LORI34205]

i just wish i knew why she will hold and pet my savannah but wont look at a snake !!!!!!!!!!!

[JaredAren]

I think it is time you gave us a list.

List why you NEED a boa.

List why you WANT a boa.

One list should be much longer than the other but I would guess that both would be very short.

Read books to see if you have the facts.

Have you considered starting with a colubrid? Some of them get large, are very hardy, and can withstand cooler temps. For example a bull or pine snake. These would be easier to keep for a novice and require much less space and can be kept at a much lower humidity.

I am not suggesting that they be kept outside either. I am just saying that they would be easier for your to keep indoors.

Once you have decided what you want, read as many educational books as you can about the animal. If you cannot follow the husbandry standards in these books then you should not get the animal as a pet.

[Zoe]

What a lovely predicament for this poor creature!

I just spoke with my mom and she said "when it storms outside and when winter comes the snake can stay in your room but if it comes out and i see a snake in my house i will stab it in the head"

I agree, give us a list. I'd like you to answer these questions too:

Why do you NEED a boa NOW?
Why can't you start with a COLUBRID?
What will you do with this boa when you move out?

Zoe

[spyderman]

IMHO. An outdoor snake is a wild one. Why not just go outside & watch the snakes you have in the wild & enjoy them!?!?!

I TOTALLY agree with everyone else on this one. How irresponsible can you & your friend be?

[spyderman]

Another point!!! What if your snake does escape & your Mom "stabs it in the head??? How will you feel?

Reconsider until you can responsibly look after a Boa in the right conditions, Please. I'm by no means putting you or anyone else down, but you MUST think of the snakes wellbeing.

[LORI34205]

The reasons i want this snake is because snakes and all other "exotic" types of reptiles or even birds are so very rewarding to watch grow under your care,it is such an amazing hobby and also very unique,some say its different some say its gross but i think it is a terriffic way to learn and expand upon new things.

[ohh_kristina]

part of being an adult is knowing the difference between what you want and what you can have.

[LORI34205]

thats great...................you know what you should do?



tell someone who gives a ****

[ohh_kristina]

that's really mature. I can tell now that we are NOT dealing with an adult here. I feel sorry for the people who have tried to give advice to you, and especially the animals that you are going to disappoint with your lack of care.

[LORI34205]

O and whichever one of you said i should start with a colubrid i have had a red rat before and a black racer(i know black racers arent too great in captivity,i went away for a week only and came back and they wear gone,i let a friend check on them every couple days and they were gone when i came back.My friend says he checked on em one day and they just werent there:(
thats bs
hes no longer my friend

[Zoe]

And what do you plan to do with this boa when you're gone? Just leave it outside in the cold rain for a couple weeks? That's really unfair to the animal.

Lori... you really need to grow up. We've all tried giving you advice and you aren't listening. Why do you even bother coming to this site? There are many other colubrids out there (more exciting than corns/red rats or racers) that you could keep in your home. It might not be a boa, but at least you'll be able to care for it correctly.

You say you want this animal to see it grow and flourish... well, it won't flourish or grow in the conditions you plan on giving it. It WILL get sick. And since you don't know the difference between a BCI and a BCC, you probably won't know what to do when that happens and you might not even want to spend the money on a vet. And since you can't bring it inside, the snake will just suffer and die there... then how will you feel?

Zoe

[LORI34205]

sorry for all the worry and trouble people but i am getting the snake and the great part is my mom is letting me keep it inside.The only downside is that i have to give her 20 a month for rent for the snake,its well worth it.Anyone know of any real good caresheets i can study up on?IM GONNA DO THIS RIGHT:)

[Zoe]

That's wonderful to hear, Lori! It will be more than worht the 20$ to know your snake is healthy and to be able to sit on your bed and watch it. Not to mention, you won't have to pay for all the vet fees you would if you kept it outside.

There are tons of good caresheets... I don't feel like looking it up right now but just go to www.yahoo.com and type in "Red-Tailed Boa Care"

Zoe

[Invictus]

I'm relieved to hear that, Lori. Hopefully your mom will learn to love the boa as much as your monitor.

Please understand that this community is very passionate about herps... and when we feel that one is being kept (or will be kept) in poor conditions, we are very vocal about it. That's why this thread got so heated. Nonetheless, it's good to hear that your future boa will kept inside.

[Linds]

Jaremy,
The outdoor enlcosures they use at VPI are not completely outdoor. They are sort of like dog kennels with indoor/outdoor access.

[Pixie]

Glad you can keep it indoors, it's one big thing that obviously was troubling the members here.

Understand why we are giving you this advice. We care about the welfare of these animals and to hear someone wanting to go about it the wrong way just rubs us the wrong way. Try to look at it from a different perspective, if someone near you was to say they were going to get a cat but could only keep it in an aquarium cause they heard someone else did it that way, would you think this person to be right? I don't think so.

For a good care sheet, personally I've found redtailboa.net has the best one that I've read so far on the net. I'm sure there are plenty other good ones out there but this one impressed me most with details.

Good luck,
Pixie