hyper active BP

[Nic]

I have a young BP, approx 6 months old. He eats pretty regularly (a f/t rat everyweek or two). he has good temps and lots of room. Is it normal for him to constantly be exploring his terrarium? It is like he is always on the prowl for food, yet he sometimes doesn't eat, so he is not always hungery. I thought these guys weren't as active as colubrids?

Any input?

Thanx,
Nic

[TheRedDragon]

Our yearling BPs do that all the time, in my opinion, they're just exploring for a way to escape. And I've seen all the BPs in my store do this too, so, it's quite normal behaviour for them. Just make sure that you have a very escape proof enclosure...because BPs are incredible escape artists. :)

[emroul]

I heard that when BP's are ALWAYS exploring (In other words, not just at night), that they are stressed or "uncomfortable", as in temps, humidity, lights, too much handling, etc.... Make sure everything is fine, and then just let them be them I guess. =)

[sapphire_moon]

I agree, he may be looking for a way out, or looking for food. My little female will do this all the time. Yet more than half the time she won't eat when food is offered (finally got her to take a frickin fuzzy MOUSE, but when I offered a small rat she turned her nose up at it, litterly!) But my male usually only cruises around when he's hungry. Actually my female bp is more active than our little corn snake.

[mykee]

You mentioned she has 'lots of room'. What exactly do you mean by lots of room because ball pythons do not require much room, nor do they appreciate it, like other snakes. They can become terribly stressed out if their environment is too large for them, hence the nervous behavior of constantly being on the move.

[Invictus]

Well, I guess it's a good thing that the deserts of East Africa are absolutely littered with small rubbermaid bins. Must make for easy W/C specimens!

WTF do you mean they don't appreciate having space? If they have a hide box, they don't give a damn about what space they have. But, if they do get in a mood for exploring, giving them room is not going to stress them out. Our male BP wanders around all the time, and guess what? His rubbermaid is TINY. We're moving him up to a far bigger one, because he seems to need the space. So don't assume it's a nervous behavior. Some BPs, believe it or not, are actually curious creatures! (Some of them even eat too, despite the rumors!)

[mykee]

Wow, by the above comment, I'm assuming Invictus that you yourself need a smaller rubbermaid. What I posted was a SUGGESTION, we're still allowed to do that, right? understand, an option for what might be wrong. BP's do not require lots of room, and tend to get stressed out if their environment is too large.

[Ron]

"Hello Kettle....this is Pot, you're black"

mykee, you've dished out your share of smart a$$ replies which is fine but you have to take them once in a while. Lets not start a big flame thread so if you want to reply you can pm me.

As for the original post, I house most of my BP's in 36" Vision cages so it gives them plenty of room. Some roam around some don't, most of them also eat regularly. Check your set up and if everything is fine just enjoy the sight of your pet.

Ron

[mykee]

Ron, you are absolutely correct, I have made my fair share of stupid comments. So why add to it? I've mended my ways. Lay off.

[Tim_Cranwill]

Hmmm... I don't think Nic asked for this type thread.

Nic, balls can be difficult to read sometimes. I have some that sit in their hides all day and eat well, some that hide a lot and don't eat, some that are out a lot and eat and some that are out a lot and don't. It depends on the snake, the time of year and the care it's being given.

You say he's eating every week or two and that sounds fine to me. You'd probably like it if he ate more regularly but that's not always something you can control with a bp. :D

As for space, my belief is that they don't need a ton of room to cruise. They need enough room to stretch out when they feel like it but that's about it. There are lots of "well, in the wild they have more than 13"x5"..." talk and that is true but they don’t go out for leisurely walks. They sit and wait for prey to come by. They are ambush predators.

I wouldn't worry about your ball being out a lot. You can try a few different hide ideas and see if that keeps him more settled but don't go pulling your hair out or anything. It sounds like he's doing fine. :)

Thanks,
Tim Cranwill
www.cranwill.com
cranwill@mts.net

[TheRedDragon]

Originally posted by mykee
Wow, by the above comment, I'm assuming Invictus that you yourself need a smaller rubbermaid.

The Rubbermaids that we have them in are so small that their hide box actually takes up a little more than half of the space. Then, there's the water dish on the other side that takes up even more space. They themselves take up most of the space in their enclosures...so, going any smaller would only accomidate them if they remained balled up. They still poke around now and then, and they feed like machines. In my opinion, the only sure fire way to determine when a BP is stressed is when they're balled up. Roaming can indicate SEVERAL things, and, as cranwill said, it can be quite difficult to read a BP.

[mykee]

I personally keep all my hatchling balls up to 500g in rubbermaids that are 16" long, by 10" wide and 5.5" tall. RedDragon, it seems that our balls are kept in fairly confined environments. I personally don't believe in the whole "tank the length of the ball, so it can 'stretch out' theory". In captivity, balls do not need to be in large enclosures. Yes, maybe in Africa they had lots and lots of room, but my house is nothing like Africa. Also, besides being balled up, there are many other ways your BP's exhibit stress, and excessive roaming is but one of them.

[Tim_Cranwill]

One argument towards keeping bp's in a larger enclosure is... heat gradient. It's tough to provide a real cool to hot temp gradient if the bin is too small. Snakes need to be able to get away from the heat source and cool down. A hide-size enclosure might not be able to provide that option... just a thought.

[Invictus]

Ok, a BP wandering around as a sign of stress has got to be the most f**king ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my life. When ANY snake is nervous, scared, or stressed, they HIDE. They don't wander around out in the open where any predator could take them at any time. This is another classic example of a mythological herp opinion.

Oddly enough, I just flipped through the ball python manual, and it didn't say anything at all about excess roaming being a sign of stress. You'd think something that important would be listed in there, wouldn't ya? Especially since most people interpret high activity as a desire to be handled.

[Invictus]

To back up my opinion above - our female BP is very nervous. Oddly enough, we never see her since she's always hiding, and when she is handled she often balls up. (There's backup for both my post and RedDragon's). Our male BP, who loves to wander around his extremely small rubbermaid (Which, by the way Mykee, is the exact dimensions you described) and knock over his water dish (little *******) is not at all nervous when being handled, feeds like a machine, and is always looking for an escape.

Conclusion - Nervous or stressed snakes HIDE. They don't wander around in the open.

[mykee]

Invictus, you've come to this conclusion, by watching the behavior of 2 (two) bp's? Hardly a scientific approach. As for the BP manual, not everything to be learned about BP's can be found in 70 odd pages of manual. There is, in my opinion, NO published work that even begins to delve into the intricacies of BP behavior.

[Linds]

Wow everyones gotta calm down here. Everyones got an opinion, nobody has to jump down their throats if they don't agree :(

There are many reasons a snake may become very active. I would guess that your snake may be hungry. If he appears to be looking for something and only eats one rat every 1-2 weeks then it could very well be the case. Although each snake is different in its appettite, I've found that babies often display signs of hunger more frequently than 1-2 weeks. Does he chill out for at least a day or so after each meal while he digests? Try offering him food whenever he is cruising and see what happens. If he still persists with his behaviour then there is another reason for it. Although it isn't as common at this age, they can become excessively active during fasting/breeding seasons as well. You never mentioned what your temps were. I don't want to come across as insulting your husbandry, but without actual temperatures we have no way of knowing if they are indeed "good". I've heard it before and often they were too high/low.



Originally posted by Invictus
Ok, a BP wandering around as a sign of stress has got to be the most f**king ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my life. When ANY snake is nervous, scared, or stressed, they HIDE.

Not necessarily. If a snake is threatened it will usually hide (unless it doesn't feel it can be adequately hidden, in which case it will look for a better place), but feeling threatened isn't the only thing that can cause a snake to be stressed. Hiding isn't the only response a snake can have to any of the reasons its become stressed ;)

Originally posted by cranwill
They sit and wait for prey to come by. They are ambush predators.


I've always been under the impression that ball pythons are quite active hunters. They have been known to raid nests in the wild and their hunting instinct is backed up by their very active "hunt mode" when in captivity.

[Invictus]

Mykee, I'm not just using my experience with 2 ball pythons to back up my opinion. I'm using the examples set by every single animal in the entire fricken animal kingdom. There is no animal on earth that will give up a hide in favor of wandering around in open territory if they are stressed out or scared, and this even includes humans. So please, before you go spreading myths about a snake roaming being a sign of stress, maybe you should examine the other factors of NATURE that are at work here - the snake could be hunting. The snake could be looking for an escape. The snake could be just plain curious. However, if it were scared, it would be hidden or buried. This is how animals keep themselves alive. NOWEHRE in nature does an animal's instinct tell them to wander in open territory when they are stressed. Get real.

[Nic]

Hi folks. I am pretty sure the tempuratures are good: There is a basking spot of 31 degrees Celcius, the low is 24. He always hides for a few days after eating. He has two hides, and his enclosure measures 21x22, so I would think that is good. The only time he seems stressed (does his best impression of a soft ball) is when I take him out to feed. He relaxes a few minutes after and then eats.

It sounds to me that a curious ball is pretty par.

Thanks,
Nic

[foman]

hi all quite the heated descussion. I have 3 ball pythons that i have had for about 8 years they all eat like champs, I have them in a large encloser and they have never missed a meal. Sometimes they're active sometime the will just chill out. But I don't believe a large cage is an issue, as they will adjust to there enviroment. Myself bigger is better for most animals being caged there maybe some exceptions out there but I think most snakes wouldn't be upset with a larger cage as long as they have a good hide.

[mykee]

Granted, you can put a ball python in an enclosure that measures 10 feet by 20 feet, but why? If the snakes requirements are met in a small enclosure, why go bigger? ALL of the information that I've received, be it from other breeders, publications, long-time BP owners, and more importantly, personal experience, balls are very content in small environments. This is the opposite from many other species of snake, but not BP's. Now, 31 celcius is 88 farenheit. I would definitely increase thathot spot temp. to at least 90. I keep all of my balls at a steady 94 daytime. Your cool side seems a little low at 74. Personally, I would raise that a few degrees also. You'll probably notice that the higher the temp. the quicker your ball will digest it's meals. As for your ball being balled up when you handle him, that is just a defense mechanism. He is scared. I would handle him more often, to let him know that when he is out of his enclosure, no harm will be done to him. Good luck, and I apologize for my part of allowing this thread to get out of control. Good luck.