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View Full Version : Female Veiled forgot to wipe?


J-Man
10-06-03, 10:55 AM
Hey, sorry about the crude subject... but I recently noticed some feces on and around my female veiled's vent. In addition to it just being lightly coated, there was also a small clump so I removed that by soaking her and moistening it and then pulling it off (not painful.... no sking breakage or any significant struggling) But there is still some around her vent I'm wondering if this is normal for them to have feces stuck to them or if it's something I should worry about? It's also hard to monitor her poopings because of how dense her foliage is.... any help I can get is appreciated. Thanks

choriona
10-06-03, 11:13 AM
yikes, i dunno what to say here. I haven't heard or seen this. Is she lacking fibre in her diet? lol.
What is you foilage like in her house - if there are potted plants, you could put tin foil around the plants so the feces dosen't get lost in the dirt. Do you notice if she seems to go to the bathroom in only one spot? You could clear that area away.

J-Man
10-06-03, 11:26 AM
Foliage is one pothos plant in the middle with a bunch of fake plants. I should actually have a pic in a few days.

J-Man
10-06-03, 11:35 AM
Also, it's not so much a matter of it getting lost in the dirt... but in all the leaves. It's a jungle in there.

Thanks so much for the reply.

Collide
10-06-03, 01:36 PM
Humm depends this could be nothin or could be somethin bad, I see some of my chams whiping them selves on branches some times after they have finnished there buisness. but keep an eye on her and yes make sure that trud looks normal. Hope everything is OK

Trace
10-06-03, 05:44 PM
Well you got me stumped too!

Collide is right, they do wipe their bums on a stick when they've finished pooping. Could it be something as simple as the poop didn't drop and she wiped against that and it got stuck? I know you are the busiest teenager on the planet, so you might not catch her in the process of pooping, but try to watch her for the next day or two.

If she is a bit constipated, try an increase her water intake daily, that usually gets things moving. Maybe cut down on the amount of mealies she gets too. The hard exoskeleton on those bugs sometimes doesn't quite pass as well as it should. Just some thoughts.

Keep us posted on little Clover.

Cheers!

Trace

J-Man
10-07-03, 08:51 AM
It could be the hydration issue... I've never really been satisfied by how much I water her. I'll have to turn it up a notch.

Thanks a lot everyone.

J-Man
10-07-03, 09:32 AM
Also, I re-arranged her and thoroughly cleaned her cage last night. I took out the giant pothos and now I just have bend-a-branches and fake vines. Before it was more like a bush now it's more like a tree. So hopefully I'll be able to monitor her poopings now.

choriona
10-07-03, 09:42 AM
yea - keep us posted.

(I can't believe I am eager to find out when clover next "does her business". LOL)

Trace
10-07-03, 09:42 AM
That's a good idea Jeremy. At least for a few days anyways, just to see if she is pooping/how she is pooping. I'm sure she enjoys the cover of the Pothos, but for a little while it's not going to hurt.

I'm hoping this just a one-time event for you and something that is not going to be a problem.

Keep me posted.

Trace

Trace
10-07-03, 09:45 AM
I can't believe I am eager to find out when clover next "does her business". LOL

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!

I know! The only thing wierder than worrying about your own chameleons "business" is worrying about other people's chameleons "business"! I'm guilty of this.

Cheers!

Trace

J-Man
10-07-03, 05:42 PM
Hmmm... she's a little bit lathargic (I'm sure I didn't spell that right). But that could be because I just recently went on vacation and someone was supposed to come in and work the lights but I think that got a little screwed up. Is it possible that she's just tired? She's just basically laying on a branch with her eyes closed or almost closed.

J-Man
10-07-03, 05:43 PM
by the way... yes you two are completely sick for caring about Clover's feces. But who's the one who had to use baby oil to rub it off of her?

Trace
10-07-03, 08:20 PM
Hey J-Man!

She's just basically laying on a branch with her eyes closed or almost closed.

That's not news I wanted to hear! I did notice the time stamp of your post and I've noticed that this time of year my chameleons are "tired" by 7:42pm. Mine are very in-tune with the rising and setting of the sun even with the fact that they are inside full-time now, they can still see the sun (or lack of) through my windows. They know that when the sun goes down, it's time for bed. I'm hoping Clover is just the same way today. I'm going to ask the standard issue questions as I always do... is she eating, are her temps good, what are her colours like etc etc.

yes you two are completely sick for caring about Clover's feces

Thanks! :p

Trace

J-Man
10-07-03, 08:53 PM
I'm a wee bit confused. At first you said it was bad news and you went on to say how it's normal for your chameleons.

Yes, she's eating. Seems to only want crickets right now... though she ate some silkies a few days ago.

Her temps seem to be good. Ambient temp of around 70's to maybe 80's. With a basking spot of 90's. Her colors are a bit iffy. They're either a great perfect green or she's dark green or brown. Basically the only time she is dark green or brown is when she is high up in the cage but just outside the basking spot. Basically anywhere else she's a perfect green (and starting to show some colors).

Watering is pretty good but not great. I think she might be a little dehydrated (her eyes are a bit sunken) could this be the problem? I've been meaning to somehow get her a way to drink a ton on her own time but my shower head can't be pointed towards the wall. But tomorrow I'm going to take a metal pan and point the water on the pan so it bounces off of it and onto the plant.

But you don't think it could be that her light schedule got screwed up and she was either up too late or slept too much during the day? And now she's just tired.

Sorry for the long post! It sured does bring back memories, eh trace?

Thanks for any help I can get!!

J-man

Trace
10-07-03, 09:23 PM
I'm a wee bit confused. At first you said it was bad news and you went on to say how it's normal for your chameleons.

Sorry! I should have made myself more clear. Sometimes my grasp of the English language leaves much to be desired. :/ The last thing I want to see you with is another sick chameleon, because you are doing everything right husbandry wise. I did want to point out that I've noticed that my chams do crawl into their sleeping spots when the sun goes down even though their lights are still on. I'm hoping this is what Clover is doing for you. I had a wee nap this afternoon so I'll be up all night unfortunately and thus sleep in tomorrow. Chameleons aren't like that, unless, I suppose, they are in a completely dark room.

It's been my experience, that chameleons will sleep during the day if they've got some kind of health problem. I know that's something you don't want to hear, but it's generally true. Her colours seem good too me, what you want to worry about is dull, pale colours. The temps are good, she's eating on her own. I know your UV bulb is new so that's ok.

Try the shower trick tomorrow. Sometimes it's a little stressful or scary on them the first time. Like they won't drink and just try to escape the shower. I would try a syringe or water bottle with her first. You don't have to force the water in, but hold her and drip water along her mouth and see if she readily drinks that way. Sometimes it does take a few minutes of dripping before they will drink. You will get wet!

Keep us posted please!

Trace

J-Man
10-07-03, 10:25 PM
I remember watering Duke like that. It was very effective... I mean while he's drinking you can squirt some in while his mouth is open... extremely good hydration there. I'll try the syringe method first. Thanks.

J-man

J-Man
10-08-03, 10:47 AM
Horrible news:

This morning she has still been lathargic, and her eyes are still sunken. She's very sulky and slow. I decided to go with the more drastic approach and I put her in the shower. She seemed to be drinking... she laid her head on a leaf for a while. But I didn't see her actually drink because I tried not to bother her. After the shower she had brighter colors but her face was somewhat pale. I wouldn't have normally noticed it except I know to look out for it.

Also, it looks like she hasn't eaten yesterday or today. So I'm a little worried about that. Also, her vent is a different color from the rest of her body and it seems sort of infected.

I'm thinking about moving onto the Bug Juice phase.

I've already called a couple vets and they said either they don't do chams or they don't do exotics. So I'm gonna keep calling.

This is all VERY upsetting to me. As some of you might know I had problems with my last veiled (Duke, male) and had to give him away to a more experienced keepr. I would hate to fail Clover too and have to give her up.

Trace
10-08-03, 11:00 AM
Oh Jeremy...

Honestly you've got me crying right now. Yes I'm a suck, yes I don't know her. After all the troubles you had with Duke, I so much wanted this little girl to work out for you. You've put so much effort into learning about the species before you got into them that you deserve a healthy chameleon.

My thoughts are with you and her. I hope you can find a decent vet that will take care of Clover. If humans can only invent teleporters I'd get her up here and rush her off to my vet.

Good luck!

Trace

J-Man
10-08-03, 12:17 PM
Thanks a lot. That does help a lot. I honestly don't know what I could have done differently. But hopefully a vet will be able to help.

J-Man
10-08-03, 08:46 PM
Well... let me just say that I didn't know it was possible for a living creature to get so bad so fast. Has anybody seen Cabin Fever? It's basically as fast as that. 2 days ago she seemed fine (except for the feces problem) now she's horrible. Hardly moving, eyes closed, pale colors, and somehow she's skinnier! I don't get it. I fed her Bug Juice tonight and she spit up about 1/20th the amount I gave her. Honestly, and I hate to say this, but I don't think she's going to make it through the night. I have a vet appointment tomorrow at 4:15 so hopefully she'll make it.

Trace
10-08-03, 09:02 PM
Jeremy...

Chameleons (and other reptiles) are VERY good at hiding their symptoms until it's almost too late. It is surprising at how quickly they can go downhill eh? As much as I try here, I have lost a few chameleons along the way too. I maintain proper husbandry, give them everything they would ever want, but sometimes it just doesn't work out. And it never gets any easier when you lose one.

Again my thoughts are with you and little Clover. I hope she's got the strength to make it through until tomorrow.

Trace

J-Man
10-08-03, 10:05 PM
Well. I'm sorry to report that little Clover passed away tonight. I think I'm a little turned off of chameleons for now. I don't know if it's my luck with them, or if it's my fault or what. Maybe it's just my house? I dunno. But I think it's best for me to wait a bit before I try again. IF I do get another herp I think it would be something easier to take care of... like an Iguana.

Trace, thank you so much for ALL of your help... not just with Clover but also with Duke... and chameleons in general. It has really meant a lot to me.

Anyway, I'm taking this a little hard so I'm just gonna go to bed. Thanks again to all who helped me.






:(

katev17
10-09-03, 05:54 AM
Jeremy I'm SO sorry to hear what happened! I only just read the whole thread, and wow she really must have been good at hiding it for that to happen so fast... Don't blame yourself, though, you really did seem to be doing everything right! I know it's hard to lose them (my first one didn't last 3 weeks, as he was only a week old or so) ... It's SO hard to tell if something's wrong with them. I couldn't notice anything wrong with mine until I woke up and he'd passed away over night. How old was Clover? Again I'm so sorry to hear that, and I hope you don't give up.

Feel better!!
Kate

Trace
10-09-03, 07:46 AM
I don't know what to say Jeremy, beyond I'm really sorry to hear what happened.

Here's a little story for you. Maybe you remember "Red", my female Panther that laid 29 eggs last week? She laid them overnight and by lunchtime she had finished repacking her hole. I did all my standard after-care practices like I do with my females and she was doing fine. She was back in her cage basking, drinking, colours looked good all that crap. She wasn't eating though, but that to me isn't a great concern right away. I think if I laid 29 eggs relative to my size, I'd be a bit lazy for the rest of the day myself! LOL! The next day I offered her some nice calcium dusted bugs and still didn't want to eat and at this point I figured she needed some nutrition to help regain her strength, so I whipped up some EmerAid powder and force fed her. I thought I would watch her for the day and if she didn't eat I'd take her to my vet the next day. Well she didn't make it through the night. What's up with that? I did a necropsy and didn't see anything wrong on the inside. No retained eggs, no tumours, nothing.

Over the last year or two there was been a sudden surge in popularity in chameleons. Everyone has got one, and that's ok. Some species are more tolerant of captive conditions than others. Some species are more tolerant of husbandry mistakes than others. It's these species that breed with relative ease in captivity, and 1000's and 1000's of them are being produced every year. Now I'm not pointing fingers at the people who are breeding because there are some good, caring breeders out there. A lot of these Veiled's are inbred now, thus causing health problems from the start. A lot are being sold too young because it is too expensive to rear a clutch of 30 babies to an age where they aren't as delicate for a novice keeper. Kate you found this out the hard way unfortunately. I think J-man is in the same situation.

Jeremy, I know my stories/rants are not going to make you feel any better. I can understand if you want to give chameleons a break for a while though, but don't give up completely. You are too dedicated and too knowledgeable about them.

My deepest condolences.

Trace

drewlowe
10-09-03, 07:56 AM
I'm so sorry for your loss J-man. I know it's hard to go through most of us has been there but don't give up.

J-Man
10-09-03, 08:20 AM
Thanks to everybody. Believe it or not it does make me feel better. That's really odd about Red, Trace. I haven't given up completely, just for a little while. But yeah, I'm thinking if I get another herp, it would be an iguana. I'm going to wait though just so I know it's not going to turn out to be a re-bound herp. Thanks again, everybody.

J-Man
10-09-03, 08:21 AM
Kate, she was about 3 months old.

choriona
10-09-03, 10:01 AM
gosh J-man, I am sorry to hear that Clover passed away. You just had a run of bad luck, I'm sure it has nothing to do with your husbandry.
I am shocked to learn she was only 3 onths old.....and you've had her for at least a month now. I just want to re-iterate what Trace was getting at about selling chameleons too young. They are very fragile when they are young. They simply die of mysterious causes. Not every hatchling is ment to make it...and those that wont usually die within the first 3 months. If you ever do decide to get another chameleon, I reccommend getting one that is older than 3 months.
And it was nice meeting you here, talking about chameleons. You are one of the people I would love to send my hatchlings off to. You tried real hard to understand the species and provide for it accordingly. I'm sure you'll do great with any animals you decide to get in the future. And please don't forget about chameleons...still come and chat with us here, and share what you have learned with everyone else!

J-Man
10-09-03, 10:30 AM
I will certainly stay here and discuss chams along with other herps on this site. Not just to share my relatively small amount of knowledge, but also to learn more.

Dani33
10-09-03, 10:33 AM
Oh my, I am soo sorry. I just read all of this for the first time and am a little choked up. It's really aweful. My thoughts are with you. I would be terribly upset if I lost one of my babies.

Danielle