Venomous Or Poisonous

[JoeBradley]

These definitions came from the Merriam-Webster dictionary. This is the standard dictionary used by schools and colleges. If these definitions are accurate why does everyone have such a problem with the term “poisonous snake”? These words can be interchanged without losing any meaning.

VENOM: poisonous matter normally secreted by some animals (as snakes, scorpions, or bees) and transmitted to prey or an enemy chiefly by biting or stinging; broadly : material that is poisonous

VENOMOUS: 1 : full of venom : as a : POISONOUS, ENVENOMED b : NOXIOUS, PERNICIOUS <expose a venomous dope ring -- Don Porter> c : SPITEFUL, MALEVOLENT <venomous criticism>
2 : having a venom-producing gland and able to inflict a poisoned wound <venomous snakes>


POISONOUS: 1 : having the properties or effects of poison : VENOMOUS
2 : DESTRUCTIVE, HARMFUL
3 : SPITEFUL, MALICIOUS


POISON: 1 a : a substance that through its chemical action usually kills, injures, or impairs an organism b (1) : something destructive or harmful (2) : an object of aversion or abhorrence
2 : a substance that inhibits the activity of another substance or the course of a reaction or process <a catalyst poison>

[Maik Dobiey]

POISONOUS: 1 : having the properties or effects of poison

So Snakes are not poisonous but their venom is...

cheers

[JoeBradley]

POISONOUS: 1 : having the properties or effects of poison

You left out the next word of that definition, venomous. Poisonous and venomous are interchangeable.

[Retic chic]

Snakes, bees and spiders may be considered to be venomous.

Mushrooms can be considered poisonous -

Venomous snakes can be eaten, poisonous mushrooms should not be.

[JoeBradley]

That still does not make using the term "poisonous snake" wrong. It is actually just as accurate as saying "venomous snake" according to the dictionary and thesaurus.

thesaurus entry:
Entry Word: poisonous
Function: adjective
Text: having the properties or effect of poison <poisonous propaganda>
Synonyms mephitic, poison, toxic, toxicant, venomous, virulent
Related Word miasmal, miasmatic, miasmic, pestilent, pestilential; deadly, fatal, lethal, mortal; baneful, deleterious, detrimental, nocuous, noxious, pernicious
Contrasted Words corrective, countervailing, emendatory, healing, remedial
Antonyms antidotal

[Retic chic]

Poisonous snake is not incorrect by definition, but from a physiological description, venomous snake is considered to be the more widely accepted definition.

Never heard of venomous mushrooms....

[Matt]

you cant look in a websters dictionary and expect complete accuracy on biological concepts.

check a good zoology book or biology dictionary and the difference will be clear

after taking 4 years of zoology and herp courses, i can tell you that no matter what websters says, venom is in injected and poison is not (therefore snakes are venomous, and its improper to say they are poisonous)

[JoeBradley]

venomous snake is considered to be the more widely accepted definition.

Exactly. So why is it when a person uses "poisonous snake" on this site they are immediately called uneducated and labeled as someone that should never keep a hot snake?

[Matt]

cause its wrong!!!
snakes are venomous, period. no matter what you derive from websters, posionous is not the correct word to descride a venomous snake...

i dont know about never keep hots because someone called them posionsous....that never happened, did it?

[Retic chic]

Originally posted by JoeBradley
Exactly. So why is it when a person uses "poisonous snake" on this site they are immediately called uneducated and labeled as someone that should never keep a hot snake?

I dont have a good answer to this one, except that by the time one is in a position to keep a hot snake, they will have learned enough about VENOM to not use the term "poisonous". By physiological definition, snakes are venomous.

To put it in better perspective, you can touch a venomous snake without injurious effects if it does not bite you. Poisonous mushrooms, and cashew husks, will often produce adverse reactions from just touching them, like POISON ivy and POISON oak.

To clarify it from an animal science physiological description, the venom is the fluid that contains the poison, but is comprised of other components - not pure poison. So it is described as venom.

The term poison refers to the substance itself. Poison can be contained in fibers and tissue, as well as venom glands, so it has a broader definition than the term venom. Poisons can be injested orally and subcutaneously (through the skin) whereas venoms in most instances need to be injected through biting or stinging.


Dr Brian Fry should have a good answer to this one

[JoeBradley]

If venom is injected then why is the gila monster called a venomous lizard? He has no fangs to "inject" the venom. The poison is absorbed through the cuts in the skin from his bite.

[fatboy]

Good question. I guess he is poisonous lizard.

[reverendsterlin]

Venom is a toxic substance that is injected, I think. Certain species of snakes, scorpions and spiders are venomous, not poisonous I'm not sure but I think that most venoms would be considered toxic not poisonous because they not absorbed through skin or digestion, the need for an active means to get them into the body's internal system but Dr. Fry may show that to be wrong. Glands typically form the toxic substance and the venom is stored until it is needed. The venomous animal will then bite or sting another creature, whether as intended prey or in defense, and the venom will be injected. Depending on various factors many degrees of illness, including death, can occur.
If you call a snake poisonous, you are actually implying that the snake has a toxic substance on his body and poisoning will occur if the snake is handled. This does not occur. Venom is used primarily to immobilize prey and is rarely used as a defense mechanism. The venomous animal will bite in an attack but injecting venom is usually reserved for prey items.

A poison is a substance that is absorbed through the skin or ingested but needing no other assistance to penetrate the bodies internal systems, resulting in toxicity. Certain amphibians, fish and insects 'secrete' a substance that is poisonous. The poisonous animal does not inject the substance into another creature. The substance is either absorbed through the skin or ingested when the poisonous animal is placed in the mouth or swallowed. Poison is typically a defense mechanism and is rarely used to incapacitate prey so in some cases use is an indication.

The Gila Monster has glands which produce toxins and biting with or without fangs that penetrates the skin is injecting, fixed fangs, folding fangs, grooved teeth doesn't matter, the komodo would not qualify because the toxins in it's mouth are produced by bacteria not the dragon.

Venom and poison both contain 'toxins' and this causes confusion, venomous and poisonous to me refer to differences in delivery method and/or primary use. This is how it was explained to me anyway.

[JoeBradley]

cause its wrong!!!
snakes are venomous, period. no matter what you derive from websters, posionous is not the correct word to descride a venomous snake...

Good answer!!

[Retic chic]

Originally posted by JoeBradley
If venom is injected then why is the gila monster called a venomous lizard? He has no fangs to "inject" the venom. The poison is absorbed through the cuts in the skin from his bite.

Where are you Dr Fry??

The gila monster and beaded lizard chew the venom into the wounds, therefore they are venomous. I think you could eat a gila monster, if it appealed to you, therefore it is not poisonous.

Poison ivy is not considered to be venomous. Touch it or eat it and you will be uncomfortable. Puffer fish are poisonous if improperly prepared, but I beleive their bite and spines are harmless.

Venom is produced by a gland and needs to be delivered to the victim through a bite or sting. Poison is distributed over the surface, within the tissue, or in a gland when referring to poisonous plants. Poison is usually injested orally or absorbed through the skin of the victim.

Scorpions, mosquitos, spiders, wasps and bees have a sting. Tarantulas have fangs to facilitate the sting, jellyfish have tentacles, and a platypus has venomous spines on its hind legs.
None of these are considered poisonous from a physiological description, as you could eat them without ill effect, if you were inclined. (Provided you are not stung in the process) The venom contained within these is considered a poisonous substance, but the animal itself is not considered poisonous.

Check your PM Joe

[Dr. Bryan Fry]

Hi all,

Yep, looks like you guys nailed it. Both venoms and poisons are made up of toxins. The key is the delivery. Venoms need to be delivered through use of a specialised mechanism that breaks the skin (fang, gilas teeth, stinger) while poisons are toxic by being ingested or absorbed (eg puffer fish and poison dart frogs). Sometimes however a particular toxin may be used as both a poison or a venom in different animals. Tetrodotoxin is part of a poison when used by a poison dart frog or puffer fish but in a venom when delivered via the very sharp beak of the blue-ringed octopus.

Cheers
B

[RevMojo]

Suppose that settles it. Unless someone is really hung up on the whole Webster deal...