Eyespy? or anyone else who can help me?

[Kappa]

Well i know this is an on going post, and i know there has been a recent one on it but my question is just a little bit diffrent. I have a tank that is 5x2x2 (as u have probaly herd alot sorry for all the questions!) I currently have one fixture on there that has 2 full spectrum bulbs, a day glo lamp and an infro red lamp. The beardies are aprx. 4 months old now and they get repti-cal calcuim with vit. d3 2 times daily at feedings and also repti-cal herptivite multi vit once a week on crickets. Do they need uvb lighting? The reason im asking this is i was talking to the breeder i purchased them from the other day and he told me again (and from the start) that his beardies and mine dont need the uvb as long as they are getting their intake of these suppliments. Eyespy, you seem to know alot about these dudes.....can u help me out? THanks alot!!!!!
Kacper + Shannon:confused:

[eyespy]

I've never seen a beardie that I thought was fully healthy who didn't have UVB exposure. The vitamin D supplements tend to build up in fat deposits in the liver and contribute to fatty liver disease. Even beardies who don't show signs of fatty liver disease still don't tend to live very long without UVB. Bone density tends to be significantly less in dragons that are only given supplements.

Ask this breeder how many of his dragons have achieved at least 7 years of age. That's the bare minimum age a healthy, well-nourished and well-housed dragon that's not significantly inbred should achieve in my opinion. Most of the breeders I've asked haven't even been in business that long so they still don't know long-term health of their stock.

Another thing to consider is that beardies are heliotherms. They use solar radiation which they store in their bony armor plating to control their body heat. Without exposure to both infrared and ultraviolet light they don't have access to the best source of heat and many dragons suffer from immune system deficiencies because of the lack of bone-penetrating heat. White blood cells and other immune system goodies are created in bone marrow, and so they really need heat that can penetrate well down into the marrow.

[DarkHunter]

wow that was a fast reply, thank you so much!!!! We really appreciate it!!! :)! we will be sure to ask the breeder how long he's had them make it too. I guess we were just worried about over vitamizing them, thats what we were told. Thank god for this website!!!!
Thanks again eyespy
Shannon and Kasper

[Big Mike]

Why not just get a UV light? You can get a fixture from a hardware store and a bulb from a pet store. Better safe than sorry.

[Kappa]

mike, we are picking one up this week. The reason we asked was because we were informed that you can over vitamize them by giving the supplimeants and the lighting. We were concernd for the health, now we know..... Better safe than sorry.
Shannon + Kacper

[meow_mix450]

well good luck with your new guy

[eyespy]

That overdose thing is a pretty common misconception. Sunlight or artificial UVB needs to be actively turned into vitamin D by the animal's liver. Cholesterol is broken down and combined with calcium and other stuff to form cholecalciferol, or vitamin D3. If the liver has enough of a store of D3, it stops making more. There's no more risk of UVB tubes producing an overdose than natural sunlight. The body just stops making vitamin D when it gets enough.

The plus side of the liver actively having to make vitamin D is that cholesterol is changed into a substance that does not clog arteries and organs to the point where disease happens. Not only will UVB exposure promote the formation of a life-giving biochemical, it also reduces the risk of fatty liver and cardiovascular disease.

Supplements don't have a shutoff valve hard-wired into the body and just build up over time if given in excess. If you're going to choose one over the other, lighting is definitely far safer and more effective than the supplements. You are no more likely to get an overdose of D3 when supplements and lighting are combined, the body just doesn't make its own vitamin D if it's getting what it needs from the supplements. But you can easily underdose or overdose the supplements as the body can't regulate storage and usage from dietary sources.