View Full Version : Stevie's got more problems.
little one
07-29-02, 02:54 AM
Oh....the poor guy. This nightmare just doesn't end for him. :( He was doing so well, and then tonight I noticed that he wasn't walking right. He was swinging his right back leg out but dragging it, so I carefully picked him up to take a look and see what was up. His vent was so red I thought he was bleeding!!!!! He started freaking out and doing the death roll, so I calmed him down and took another look and it would appear that he is prolapsing something. Given his recent history with the bacterial infection and the flukes affecting his colon, it stands to reason that his is part of his intestines. :( I don't know how fast it's possible for me to get him to his vet.....I'm thinking Saturday might be the earliest (I hope not!).
There's not a lot of tissue prolapsing right now. I have soaked him in warm water and it did seem to help a bit. I have a couple of pictures, email me for them if you think it will help. I'm going to phone the vet in the morning......anything else I can do for my guy?
beth wallbank
07-29-02, 08:58 AM
The problem that Stevie is having is he's in the mood for love. It's not his intestines!! It's his *****. Soak him in a warm bath.
beth wallbank
07-29-02, 08:59 AM
the ******** out word is google berries.......
little one
07-29-02, 10:52 AM
No, Beth. From his bout with flukes and the intestinal bacterial infection, his intestinal walls have been weakened and it's part of his intestines coming out.
beth wallbank
07-29-02, 12:07 PM
Sorry Little One, just received this from a friend of mine whom also is a vet tech, and with looking at this, seems Stevie has a penial prolapse. This is not his bowls. Soak him in water.
beth wallbank
07-29-02, 12:09 PM
here is another copy of the pictures that came from Little One for all of those that can confirm the prolapse.
little one
07-29-02, 12:14 PM
yes, I've been talking with the vet and with Candy from Reptile Rescue (she's an angel!!) and they both say that it is a prolapse of the INTESTINES caused from the flukes that he had when I got him. This is a common problem in leos that have been as sick as he was. I will deal with it and he will be fine.....just like I dealt with the flukes and the bacterial infection. Oh, and the prolapse went back inside last night after I had soaked him. I will deal with the rest of his problems too.
Feel any more inclined to honor the deal like you should?
Little One I have some questions for you..
If Stevie is haven't so many problems and they keep coming back, why aren't you putting him out of his misery by euthanasia?
Why are you letting this leo you supposedly love so much suffer?
If he's got as many problems as you say he does, don't you think he's better off dead? Atleast that way he wouldn't be suffering.
Since he's so sick, he is not good for breeding. And if he's 'just a pet' then why are you making him suffer?
From the pics I've seen of Stevie, it is a hemi-penial prolapse. An intestinal prolapse is not that red, and would bulge alot more. It would also have a blackish colouring because if the semi digested food inside it.
Hey Little one, have you ever been to the RRR???
I'm not going to say that Candy isn't the little angel you think she is because I have no idea who she is but anyone who knows anything about herps and has visited the RRR knows that you shouldn't take their word on anything to do with the health of an animal!
I'm just going to dig for some pictures recently taken there. I'll post them when I find them. You may change your mind about taking their word on anything and take Stevie to a certified vet if you are concerned about a problem!
little one
07-29-02, 12:58 PM
I don't need any of you telling me that it's been "confirmed"....I didn't lie about it! And the idea that you thought I did is a massive insult! The nerve!
And the audacity to suggest that I have my beloved animal put down because he's having successive problems is absolutely ridiculous and inhumane! How dare you! You should be embarrassed!
And to mistrust the woman that has done more good for Stevie than anybody else! Well!!! I have never met a bunch of more self-centered, egotistical, and self-righteous people in all my life. What an indignation! You people should all be ashamed of yourself for the words of "advice" regarding my sweet innocent little Stevie - who didn't ask for this and it's my duty as a caring and loving owner to do everything in my power to help him!
holy smokes... getting a little defensive just 'cause i suggested they may not know what they are doing... wait for the pics then judge for yourself!
little one
07-29-02, 01:07 PM
I KNOW my QUALIFIED HERP VET and Candy who deals with this stuff ALL the time know what they are doing and aren't as insensative as you clods are. I am more disturbed by the "helpful" suggestion of killing him than of your offer to help through this other web site, deb. I wasn't going off on you, and I'm sorry if it looked that way. The insensativity hit me pretty hard...I couldn't do that to an animal unless it was the only option. It isn't here.
I have been talking to Dr. Upjohn...he's a qualified herp vet and he's been helping Stevie since he came to me with flukes. He knows the history and everything and from Stevie's history, it's an intestinal prolapse and not his hemipenes.
If there are any truly helpful suggestions, I am more than happy to listen to them, but I don't want to hear anything more about killing my baby. Please.
wow someone's hyper defensive..
it was a personal statement.. I think stevie is repeatedly suffering and if he were my leo I'd give serious thought to what would be best for him.. really what kind of life is he having being sick all the time?
I've had to make this decision myself on a few pets I've had over the years and it's one of the hardest things to do, but if you like having your pets in pain and suffering repeatly then that's your personal decision. I don't feel that temporary 'fixes' at the solution, and actually make things worse in the long run.
little one
07-29-02, 01:44 PM
ReneeB: I don't think I'm working at temporary solutions. You would be hyper-defensive too if it were your animal that you were trying to save and you cared about him like I care about Stevie. He came to me originally sick...that sickness had gone on long enough to cause these subsequent problems that must be dealt with before he can be as healthy as my other 6 leos. I am working at new problems that were created by the old ones.
I'm working at saving his life before killing him is the only option left.
This is one of many pics i have from the RRR.
I will post a few more also.
When we told the woman in charge of the place about this poor guy she took him out, looked at him quickly, said he's fine and put him back. Does he look fine to you???
Hopefully this works!http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/385turtleprolapse-med.jpg
Wow. Little one, I think you need to take a step back here and look at the big picture. Everybody on this forum is not trying to "kill" you gecko at all! We are all here with the best of intentions in mind. However, I would recommend that you take your gecko to the vet where a certified vet can tell you what the prolapse is. On the otherhand there are more than a couple vet technicians who are heavily involved in the herping community who post on this forum and you might want to atleast take their oppinion into consideration as I believe that you only aquired your first gecko in May and dont have the experience or knowledge to diagnose animals yourself. Now, just to make myself clear I am in no way, shape or form calling you insuffient, unknowledgable or incapable of anything, I am merely stating that you are not a vet nor are qualified to make diagnosis yourself. And in my opionion looking at those photos it looks to be a hemipenial prolapse. I have had one qecko who has prolapses a couple of times and I always soak him in warm water with a tablespoon of EPSON salt(must be EPSON or you will pickle your geckos testicles!!) Now, in regards to taking Christine's advice, that is completely your choice, but why not take the advice of caring herpers and QUALIFIED VETS than somebody who struggles to care for herps that are on the brinks of death. Take a look at the photos that Deb is going to post for you to see. Chrisine has good intentions but does not have the knowledge, capacity or patients to deal with the herps that she has. And if I were you I would take a pop down to the RRR and see for yourself and take a look first hand at all the suffering animals that unfortunely call that place home. JMHO.
Murray
and where do they come off giving bread to most of their herps and cat food to the iguanas also??? Since when did an Iguana have access to Safeway???[IMG]http://http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/385iggieseatbread-med.jpg
I forgot to mention that I have aquired countless geckos, snakes etc.. from beth none of which have have any health problems. So not to sure why you woul be the only one having this Flukes problem, I have never ever encountered any problems from Beth. One questions though, was it the vet that diagnosed Flukes or somebody else?
Murray
The rest of these are pretty much self explanitory....
How can anyone put this type of animal on dislplay to the general public and try to pass them off as healthy???
There are many at the RRR who should probably be put out of their misery so that there is space for healthy animals that are taken in. Please remember these are no longer someones pets...
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/385iggysore.jpg http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/385snappingturtle-med.jpg
little one
07-29-02, 02:43 PM
No, deb. He is clearly not fine and neither is Stevie, but we are not talking about the same person.
little one
07-29-02, 02:45 PM
This is pointless. You people are all way too stuck on trying to prove me wrong than you are on trying to help me and my gecko. I can't believe you call this help! Disgusting!
We also have to think of the health issues...
If wild mice are able to co from one enclosure to the next stealing food, what type of diseases are they carrying to and from these animals to pets in the surrounding area??
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/385mouseinchamcage.jpg
that was a mouse in the cham cage!
And are we not supposed to look out for the safety of our herps when installing heat lamps. what about burns if they get too close???http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/385iggiesintheheatlamp-med.jpg
Hey little one... all i am trying to do is point out to you that there is a good posibility that the person at the RRR who is giving you info may not know all there is to know about stevie!
I know you feel that she has helped you but if you think that Stevie is really sick again then please take him in to see Dr Upjohn as you have done before! Murray may have named one of the people at the RRR that wasn't the one you are dealing with but look at these poor animals...... If Candy is truly educated as to the health of herps why is she not doing something to help the ones that they have in their care???
A friend of mine went in there looking for info on her new iggy and they told her that no one but them can take care of any type of herp and that she should take it into them immediately before she killed it! Does this sound like someone who is really out there to help people?
Hi,
I just thought that I might as well step in and quickly clarify something since you seem to think I am someone that I am not. I do not work with the RRR in BC - I have no idea who they are, have never met them and have no association with that organization.
We are based in Ontario - we own and operate Reptile Rescue, Canada which is run completely differently. Just wanted to clarify ;) So what goes on in this place is beyond me.
Candy
OOPS Sorry Candy.. We have all seen so much horrible stuff at the RRR in Surrey. When Little one said she'd received help on Stevie it was just assumed that as no vet can diagnose someting over the phone that you would have had to have been here and seen stevie to give a true diagnosis!
...Although I am extremely heartbroken to hear about and read what is apparently happening over there - that is an absolute travesty if that is what is going on :( Nothing saddens me more than something like that when one is there to apparently try and help.
All I could do for Little One, and all I have been able to do along the way is pass on some ideas and trails to follow. I certainly don't have the qualifications to say that this may be the problem or that may be the problem with any herp ... no matter where it is - that is left up to those individuals such as qualified veterinarians. My vets are my best friends and should they move away, well looks like its time to pack up the herps and follow suit lol!
All a person like myself can do is share what information we have come across here and information that I have gathered by taking pics and descriptions into our vets since I practically live there anyways. It was not a definitive diagnosis that I gave - I am not qualified to do that :) Just passing on thoughts after talking to the vet etc...
But ultimately, for the most appropriate diagnosis, that is to be left in the hands of the treating vet. All the rest of us can do is really guess and take a stab at things and pinpoint possible directions. And Little One's vet is the one that has more information than the rest of us to go by so when it comes to a situation like this, I err on the side with my own vet and if I am uncomfortable with it, off we go for another examination with someone else, irregardless of the cost.
With that aside, what counts is that Stevie starts to recover and hopefully this is an isolated incident. He has come a long way and made exceptional progress - the kind that keeps one plugging away when sometimes you wonder if its worth it.
So fingers are crossed for Stevie Little One as always and I myself look forward to hearing what else the vet may have to say about this.
Candy
Ok little one you're not going to like this...
Your main help just admitted that she is across the other side of the country and has only given you suggestions. Don't get me wrong ..... suggestions can be a wonderful thing but they are not a medical diagnosis... Now you are stuck believing someone who is only experienced in herps but without any qualifications is correct over someone who is a certified vet tech and has been breeding leos personally for ages.
Is it so hard to believe that he has just hit that 'leo maturity' thing...
Isn't he a teen now as far as leos go???
I'd just like to add my thoughts here...
The pictures of Stevie looked to me like a hemipenal prolapse, not intestines. I've seen animals with intestinal prolapse before, and looked quite different.
Also, I believe that if it was intestinal it would have to be manually fixed, and you said it seems to be getting better? I'd say that's another idea that we're looking at a hemipenal prolapse.
Like it's been said Little One, I think a vet visit is in order. But I'd take this as reassurance that most people think it's a hemipenal prolapse, and not intestinal, which would be more serious, and not as an attack or attempt to prove you wrong. :)
I would like to remind everyone that sSNAKESs.com is a very friendly, helpful community, and we wish to avoid, and will not tolerate any flaming on this site. Little One, please refrain from accusing people and name calling. I realize the you are going through an emotional time, but please try to not let them overun you. We are all just here to try to help you :) Also, a copy of this thread has been sent to the BOI forum, please post any comments in reference to the RRR on there. Thank you.
Now that aside, I have not seen pics, but regardless, you should get him to a vet asap. In the meantime, if it is a hemipenal prolapse, do NOT let it dry out under any circumstance. Make up a thick paste of sugar and water and apply it, in many cases this may cause the prolapse to retract (this is procedure with snakes, I am just assuming that it may be worth a try with your gecko, it wont do any harm if ti doesnt work). If it doesnt retract within a few hours, wrap it in damp guaze until you can get it to your vet.
oh by the way.....
I assume you are still heading into the vet on saturday. From everything i've heard about prolapse intestine the chances are slim that Stevie will make it that long if that is indeed what he has!
I am sure that Beth will be happy to accept your apology after your vet visit for you accusing her of being responsible for your leo masterbating!
On Dr. Upjohn, I would not say he is most qualified vet, I have heard some stories about him and have my own personal experience regarding his practise. It's a long story, but in the end, I had a snake taking four medications at the same time, which caused him to regurgitated all his food and did nothing for the absess he had. As well, it took FOREVER for him to get back about any tests done on my snake.
When we took a hognose snake in with a Psuedomonas he told us to put her on UVB! <laugh> Incrediously we asked what strength of UVB 2.0? 5.0? 8.0? He looked at us funny and flustered, "Whatever, as long as it has UVB." A snake on UVB, too funny. (Please note, some snakes do require UVB, notably the green snakes and a lot of vine snakes as well) In any case, we will not be going back to him. He seemed upset that I was telling HIM what sensitivity tests I wanted to run. Heh.
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