Suggestions for copperhead purchase

[shaggybill]

I am beginning to get together information on the care of copperheads. I have never owned a venomous snake before, and since the copperhead is my all-time favorite, and on many professionals recommendations, this will be my starter. Actually, it will probably be my only snake. I dont have time for a collection.

I have been researching this information for the last few days, and I thought I would list some of my questions, and if any of you long-time keepers would like to lend your expertise, it would help me out alot.

Heres a few questions for starters...

1. What is the best size for an enclosure?

2. What is the best way to keep one side of the enclosure warm, and the other cooler?

3. How often should I clean the enclosure?

4. How often should I feed the snake?

5. Should I start with pinkies?

6. Should I feed it live prey or thawed?

7. What is needed as far as "medical upkeep" for the snake? IE; shots, medicine, etc.

8. What is the best substrate for a copperhead?

I already have in my possession an enclosure measuring 28" long, 12" wide, and 16" high. Is this sufficient for a neonate? And if it is, at what snake-length should I upgrade to a larger enclosure?

Before I buy the snake, I dont want to have any more questions about it's care. And I dont plan on hurrying either. So if I ask alot more questions, please forgive me.

If anybody knows of a website that has alot of this information on it, besides Marti Snipes, (I've already read it) and especially if it's specific to copperheads, I would appreciate it if you would direct me to it.

Also, if anyone just has any tips that they think would be useful, that would be nice. :)

thanks

[BWSmith]

1. Your 28x12 ahould be sufficient in size. But the design is very important. Do not use glass terrariums. The cage should be secure, escape proof and lockable. I use front opening cages and place the water bowl at the front so that I can refill them by pouring water down a restraining tube or can easily remove the water bowl with tongs without disturbing the snake or cage decor.

2. I use a lamp on one side of the cage just like I do for most snakes. This offers them heat and light and makes it more enjoyable for me to view them. You can also use a rheostat (light dimmer) to help control the temps.

3. I spot clean as needed and perform a full substrate change every couple months.

4. Depends on age. Young snakes can be fed every week, I feed adults every 2 weeks or so. Feed totes are always best for snakes as it helps keep them from injesting substrate. This can be tricky with venomous however. My prefered method with venomous is to place the food item on a large flat rock inside the enclosure so it works like a plate with no substrate. Sometimes tehy do drag it into the substrate however. Use long hemostats or tongs to place the food item int he cage.


5. Depends on the size of the snake. Coppers will generally eat mice well, they are hard to switch to rats. Be sure to get at least a feeding subadult as they are easier to work with than neonates. Not fun having to force feed or Pinkie Press baby venomous.

6. NEVER feed live. I have seen too many snakes get killed by rodents.

7. Treating hots in no easy task and not for the beginner. I would recommend beginning your search for a vet that is experienced in herps and is willing to work with hots. Tubes, hooks, hemos and tongs are amust for having hot snakes. The list goes on though.

8. I use Cypress mulch. Newspaper is easiest for cost and maintenance.

Take your time and learn as much as you can. Try to find a mentor that can show you techniques.

[shaggybill]

Thanks BW. You said not to use glass terrariums, why is that?
Also, if I should be taking the snake to a vet for the medicine, shots and stuff, how often should I take it, and for what reasons?

[BWSmith]

Terrariums generally are not secure enough in my humble opinion and much midification has to be done particularly when dealing with pitvipers.

Snake would only go the vet as needed just like any other snake. I am assuming that since you are delving into hots that you have several years experience with nonvenomous species.

[BWSmith]

Also remember that in Indiana the Copperhead is protected and you need permits for the venomous as well. The cost is $10 per animal (one time fee) for the permit. You must have them in a secure locking cage labelled with common name, latin name, and sex ratio. You must have protocols and emergency numbers near the cage. And the kicker, you HAVE to inform you adjacent neighbors that you posess a dangerous animal and DNR will do so as well. There are several other regulations. Just call Indiana DNR and ask for the complete packet. By obeying the laws and getting all permits, you help the entire venomous community by reflecting possitively on us all.

[GI Joe]

Can I humbly suggest you find and work with a venomous keeper (Chuck can be pretty venomous - just kidding Chuck) for awhile before buying one. Venomous can be tricky and one mistake can be pretty damaging.

Jeff

[BWSmith]

A mentor is always the best way to go. Perhaps IN DNR can give you some guidance or put someone in contact with you.

[Gregg M]

Sounds to me that he has never owned a snake in his life......... He is asking pretty basic questions that only someone that never owned a snake before would ask........ That is kinda why I did not want to get into this thread in the first place........ No offence......

[shaggybill]

Basically, its like this guys. I have been working with snakes all my life. Everything from garters, to water snakes, to black racers. I have kept a few, but not for extremely long periods of time. And definitely not long enough to have to worry about shots and medication. When I would keep snakes, it would be the ones I had found in the woods or at the creek, and I would take it home and keep it for a few days or weeks. And when I say I kept snakes, I dont mean 5-10 snakes or whatever, I mean probably over 100.
I'm not saying that this makes me professional by any means, but I have done this with so many snakes, I personally feel that I have worked with enough aggressive colubrids, that I am ready for a mild hot.

If you guys think differently, I would like to hear your opinions. I trust my instincts, but if you guys have a good point, I am not so stubborn that I wouldnt listen.

Gregg, I know that the questions above are very basic. And most of them, I already knew or had a good idea what the answer was. But I'm the kind of guy who gets second opinions and I usually dont ask or trust just one source. I am starting with the basics, and working my way up to the more difficult aspects, and I am writing EVERYTHING down as I go along, for the sole purpose of KNOWING that I know. And to be honest, I plan on asking more basic questions. Ones that I already know the answers to, but I want second opinions. And I want the first answers to match the second. And if they dont, then I'll ask 'em again. Here and elsewhere.

BW, according to coastalreptiles.com, there is not a need for a permit in IN. Heres what it says;

Indiana:
Native Venomous: No permit required
Exotic Venomous: No permit required
Protected Native Venomous: Permit required
Cottonmouth (Agkistrodon piscivorus)
Timber Rattlesnake (Crotalus horridus)
Massasauga (Sistrurus catenatus)

Indiana Department of Natural Resources
Division of Fish and Wildlife
Commercial License Clerk
Indiana Government Center South
402 W. Washington Street-Room W273
Indianapolis, IN 46204-2267

Another thing I want you guys to know is that I am not wanting to get into the hots that you guys do. I have no interest in keeping gabby's, cobras, or even a rattler.

So now you guys are probably wondering why I want a copperhead. Its simply because coppers have always been my favorite snake. I am fascinated by them. I grew up with them in my backyard in North Carolina. And after 10 years of working with/keeping colubrids, I think I am ready to keep one.

Any more thoughts on this? I really am willing to listen, just please dont be offended or think I am an obstinate moron if I disagree with what you will say.

Also, any more tips or insight on copperhead care is welcome.

There, I think thats everything I wanted to say. I know that you guys are saying this in my best interest, so I'm not offended that you guys are a bit worried about how prepared I am. And I also know that if I am not a responsible person with this hobby, then it could effect not only me, but you as well.

So, with that being said, I'm outta here.

[BWSmith]

As far as Indiana laws, trust me. I called the DNR and had them send me a complete packet of ALL wildlife regulations. I would suggest the same. It is a fantastic system they have. Look at it this way, if there are regulations in place, theya re less likely to pass a ban. Unfortunately, Mardi's page on laws has not been updated in at least a year and much is outdated, but the contacts are still great.

Any other concerns I will adress tomorrow, it is late. ;)

[shaggybill]

Really? Thats interesting. Do you know anything about Ohio's regulations? I will be moving there sometime this fall.

Looking forward to what you have to say...

[Gregg M]

Well then I opologize Bill........ I am sure you can see my point though........ You hardly ever have to take a snake to the vet physicly........ Usually just a stool sample is good enough for a basic check up........ And medicating can be done by yourself if the vet finds something....... Most vets like it better that way.....LOL

[BWSmith]

Ohio I have not been able to get any information. I have called several times and keep getting the run around. Noone either knows or can give me a straight answer.

[shaggybill]

no problem Gregg. And yes, I do see your point.

BW, I was able to do some research last night on Ohio, and it looks like its the same as Indiana, according to the DNRs website. The only thing is that it doesnt even mention venomous, just says $10 for keeping a non-protected native species.