Thinking of selling

[Simon]

Well I was wondering how many people would be interested in getting some lavenders for 2003.

I have 8 lavenders that I COULD sell out....but was wondering how many people would actually pay and buy these.

I am asking
$250 for males, lone or extra females for 25% higher than the male price and pairs for 2 times the male price ($500 for a pair)

[sapphire_moon]

I know of some lavenders for $150.00 (single, and both sex's cost the same, in the U.S.) I would be willing to buy a lavender, but not at that price.....Just my 2 cents :)

[Simon]

Actually sapphire_moon,

yeah the lavenders cost $150....but those are the US price. That is exactly how I got my price too...I just do the little exchange rate thing...and there comes my price.....and I know for sure that Kathy and Rich has the same regulation as to get an extra female that would cost 25% more than the male price. I am just doing the same as the U.S. price...that's it...

[Matt_K]

at today's rate, your price should be $206 dollars....

[Simon]

o well...I set the price up when it was still 1.6.....and I didn't want to move the price cause I'd have to go to my web site and do all the little math again for all the morphs out there....
so basically too lazy.....

[Matt_K]

lol, i was just trying to be a smarta$$ Simon :) The rate is actually 1.36 though (according to Scotiabank)

[Simon]

yeah.....well it's actually good for us Canadians if we want to buy things in the US (but it's not that good for the economy right now. Not a lot of people are getting stuff from us....especially with the woods....sigh....so having a higher exchange rate would do much better to our economy..but for people who want to get stuff in the US that's bad)

But anyway...I can't change my price according to the exchange rate right? So I have to stick with the 'web site price' for now. Only if the supply comes up then I might think about lowering the price a bit. (Man this post is starting to sound like my economics paper....lol...)

[Geck-co]

LoL that's to funny - I had the same thing happen to me when I posted some prices on leopard geckos. Gota love the people who are so fast to flame yet don't take the time to do the research!

As for the lone female 25% higher policy I have seen that on NUMEROUS breeders pages when I was looking up morphs and various prices.

As for buying in the US heh if you want to deal with the import/export permits and the waiting around at the boarder, paying the $55 or is it $65 US inspection fee for the animals to leave the country? the $5 building fee for use of the American government building while this inspection takes place. The cost of shipping the animals, the exchange rate.. oh the list goes on and on lol

[Matt_K]

Originally posted by Geck-co
Gota love the people who are so fast to flame yet don't take the time to do the research!

I'm not sure if you're referring to me saying that his price should have been $206 according to todays rate.. However, to clarify, i said it out of pure fun with Simon.. So i dont understand where the flaming took place... Seeing as i got those rates off of one of Canada's banks sites, i guess getting the rates was somewhat of research eh? heh... Oh well, as i stated in my second post, I was just playing with the guy.. As I understand importing snakes would costs more then the $44 difference in his price and the price according to exchange rates...

[Geck-co]

lol matt was not refering to you :P

my post was directed to the person who was talking about US pricing and how they are cheaper elsewhere.....

[Matt_K]

ahhhhh, okay then.. just needed some clarification on that ;) Thanks Adam :P

[sapphire_moon]

I see ok! I didn't know where you were.......In that case I would definitly buy one. lol, If I were there!

[Invictus]

I'd buy them. Lavenders are one of my favorite corn morphs.

[Andy_G]

If someone I know wasn't selling them for 125$ canadian, I would be willing to buy them at that price.

[BrandonVeenstra]

Man.. Corns .. well Colubrids in general are dropping in price by so much..

[Simon]

well only some people sell them at that price.
I mean I know my price of the 'normal' corns are really low right now. But I am trying to make room for the higher end morphs right now.

Like the butter, lavenders, amerbs, caramel, bloodred, amel bloodred, anery bloodred, snow bloodred, butter motley, etc etc....

I have supply and quality to my animals so even staying at a higher price than other people I am confident enough that my animals will sell out. I mean I even know that some people sell orange candy canes for $50 in Canada...and even in the US they are selling it for $75-$150US....so my price of $150 Canadian for an orange candy cane is comparitively really high to the canadian breeder that is selling them for $50. But quality, service, and gurantees are well worth it for my price.

So even if people undersell me I am not going to whine about it like some people have done it to me when I undersell them.

Some people in this 'business' really need to learn and grow up (not directing it at anyone posting in this post, just my past experience with a breeder)

I mean even Rich, Kathy, and Don has tons of competitors around and why do a lot of people still go to them and buy snakes? Becuase of reputation, quality, and service that these 3 are providing. That is why even if there are people that sells lavenders for $125 I will not lower mine just to 'compete' with the person. If I really want to do it...I'll sell my lavender for $10 and I would assuming that there is at least someone that would be willing to buy my lavs and I'd still make some profit from it since I am breeding these lavenders right?

So even lower prices elsewhere doesn't mean that I have to drop my price just to 'compete'

Hope some people understand what I am trying to say...it's a bit messy...lol)

[liltattyprinces]

I compleatly get what your saying i would love a pair but finanically at the moment with 2 kids and the start of school and x- mas aproaching (sp)? as much as i want a pair i just can't do it, i would really like to expand the kids and i's collection for the educational shows at the daycares and school but just not in the cards at the moment....Oh well hopefully next time..

:) Laura-Lee

[marisa]

Simon, your snakes always seem to be of the highest quality from the photos I have seen. Both your own photos and photos others have posted of your animals all show high quality cornsnakes.

So IMHO if you think your snakes are worth 250, then stick with that price unless you are trying to make room and what not then wait and people who want the highest quality lavs will pay for them. You really do get what you pay for and if I am buying snakes I will pay the price for the animal I want, not bargain hunt all over the place for the cheapest half assed one. :D :D :D

Marisa

[Simon]

Thank you Laura and Marisa!

Glad that at least some people do understand. Cause when I was typing that post I was kind of in 'tweety world...'going nuts cause I was tried and all so I was glad that at least some people understood what I was talking about....

and better yet....at least I have people supporting me that my price aren't sky high.

Thanks so much!!!

[liltattyprinces]

simon i totally get you, i am hopeing to breed my females when their ready wich won't be for quite awhile unless i can scrape together the $$ for and adult female for my big male,,and i already have everyone and their dog asking for a *favor* i'm a single parent and can't afford to do that i mainly want to try my hand at it because i think it would be a great learning experience for my kids, and then i will have snakes i can loan the daycare and school classrooms as class pets under my care. It just seems that most ppl are looking for a free pet or a great deal and they don't understand all the time $$ and effort that goes into this.


P.S hope to do business with you once the $$ are there i've head nothing but great things regarding you and your snakes

Laura-Lee

[vanderkm]

So Andy - who is your source of cheap lavs?! willing to share?

Simon - I definately support your position of setting your price and defending it - basically my opinion is that a snake is worth what someone will pay for it. I have given away valuable snakes that I wanted to place and overcharged for snakes that I hated to part with - price is all about what will make the buyer happy and result in a sale - no need to justify it beyond that.

I buy what interests me either because I want an animal that has an appearance that appeals to me or I want the genetic potential that it offers. Lavender corns just don't appeal to me enough to pay what you plan to charge, but I would likely pay $150 for one.

If I wanted the genetics when the color morph is as rare as lavenders are here, I would buy hets or double hets (lav and stripe or lav with amel) and I think if you want to market to other breeders here you might consider doing some breedings to produce these. They offer the added advantage of increasing the genetic diversity of the stock, and still allowing people to produce the pure morphs. I would really be surprised if lavenders have enough visual appeal to be worth that amount to someone who wants a pet snake - they just aren't very dramatic.

To me there is little appeal to breeding lav to lav every year and just making more lavenders - much more fun to mix and match the morphs, introduce some diversity in the bloodlines and practice some selection along the way. Great opportunity to partner with other breeders in Canada too - in terms of splitting clutches of hets for a trait that you might be interested in. Something to consider as you investigate marketing (which I think is a good idea - gives you some idea of your potential market bofore you produce or import a lot of these guys),

mary v.

[Simon]

Mary,

I don't know if Andy is refering to this breeder but here is the link to the other breeder that is selling his corns for at least 1/2 my price.

Here you go:
http://www.thereptilerainforest.com/pricelist.html

Yeah having hets and testing the market would be good but then there are times (espeically with breeders) that you can't simply just offer rare morphs of het out to the market. As I do know some or a few people would at least want to know what they look like so having some rare morphs are good. Even though having hets is good, offering the actual animal would help us keep the price up a bit more or else in a few years time tons of people will be producing their own 'rare' morphs.

This is why Rich Zuchowski over at the states dont usually sell hets out. (Not saying that he doesn't but doesn't promote them as much.) IE. The butter striped that he produced, he is now asking $1000US each and he sold a pair this year. He is not offering normal het amel, caramel, striped out yet since if you combine them together there is 1/64 chance that the person could get a butter striped that is worth $1000US right now. He can no way sell a normal het amel, caramel, striped for $500US so that is why he doesn't usually offer them out.

Anyway hope that the site that I gave you would help you get a beautiful lavender~

have fun!

[vanderkm]

Good points Simon and thanks for the link - it is an indication of your integrety as a breeder that you are not the least reluctant to point people to the competition! Despite the fact that I would only be willing to pay $150 for a lavender - I am not in the market for one - so won't be going to that site to buy - was just sort of joking when I suggested Andy share his source.

I agree with you that some people really want the actual morph and not the hets - that is why I have butter, blizzard and striped corns and ghost or albino hondurans. I like attractive animals and I can then be sure of what is in my breeding program if I use an actual morph. I think the value of hets is really in the diversity they bring to the strains as well as giving more people the chance to produce the rare morphs through their own breedings, even if the odds are remote. I really respect many of the honduran breeders who offer hets at very reasonable prices in order to allow more people to participate in the higher end of the hobby. In my opinion, the major thing that some morphs have going for them is that they are not yet common - so rarity is what makes them cost more - they are not inherently better and worth more.

I am not sure I see why it is important to offer only the morphs to keep the price high - or why it is important to keep the prices high by limiting the number of people who can produce them. Certainly the person whose pair of triple het animals have a 1/64 chance of producing a butter stripe is no real threat to a breeder who can plan and produce a butter male het for stripe and breed it to multiple triple hets or striped amel het caramels and produce large numbers of butter stripes. But imagine the joy of producing one butter stripe for someone who has those triple hets - I think that should be more accessable not more restricted. Just my opinion though and I am not really even a corn breeder yet.


good thread - gave me lots to think about,

mary v.

[Siretsap]

I tought lavenders were different from ruby eyed ghosts. From reptile rainforest's webcite, they describe them as ruby eyed ghosts. If that is true, then I already have 1.1 lavender.
Will post a pic for you guys to decide.

[Simon]

Siretsap,

No actually a lavender is not a ruby eyed ghost. As the breeder of the rainforest's web site, it states that "Like a purple ghost corn with ruby eyes. Mine have exceptionally good temperment."

So its not actually a purple ghost with ruby eyes. He just stated it that it kind of looked like that. Besides...my lavenders have regular corn eyes....not purple or ruby eyed....I don't know where he got that....lol......

here is a pic of one of my lavenders

At least I don't see any ruby eyed....I have 8 lavender adults and around 10 lavender hatchlings....and I don't see anyone of them with ruby eyes...lol
<img src="http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid79/p759117dec22afe6980aa5e71d18b726b/fb13bf78.jpg">

Mary,

It is more important to keep it rare so that you can have a good market share. Another reason why it is important is because if they are not rare and you are not able to produce anymore 'unknown' morphs later on to replace the current rare morph then people wont be as willing to buy from you later. What I am really trying to say is that, for eg. If I have produced a blue corn snake this year and I am selling it for $10000US or whatever price it is. I would want to 'make' breeders and collectors want it right? If I sold hets out then in a few years time there might be someone producing the blue corns. By then if I don't produce anything more 'special' then the other person that has produced the blue corn might be willing to sell the snake right? So then I would be basically losing the market share that I have in the economy as there are more supply. Unless I come up with a green corn snake which could replace the rarity of the blue corn snake selling the het blue corn would be dangerous for the breeder. You see what I mean now? For those who have no idea what I am talking about....just ignore teh blue and green corn....there isn't one right now..just using it as a sample....lol

[Andy_G]

That is the breeder I was talking about. His animals look a lot like yours Simon, and one has actually developed ruby eyes and it is the most purple of the bunch and is also a pure lavendar, I am not sure if he has plans of making it a little project or not but look for a few coming around next year :).

Darren, (owner of R.R.) has done a lot for me and has helped me learn more about the hobby more than any internet page or book could and he's pretty much the only breeder I am really friends with so if anyone hates me for posting the competition, please don't because I am just trying to help him as he has helped me, and he's also the only breeder I have dealt with.

[Simon]

Andy,

LOL...no body is going to hate you because you posted another breeder here...lol...why would anyone do that? Competition is normal..and if there are no competition we basically would not motivate ourselves in working harder and strive for better looking snakes right??? No one is going to be mad at you for sure!! LOL

I haven't dealt with him before but if I have the chance I might deal with him later on (that is if I stop producing way too animals than I can handle....lol)

[CornBall]

Simon:
250 for a lone male lavender is an excellent price for selling them, adding 25% on top for lone females is perfectly fine by me. You have to keep the prices up on rarer morphs like that up here in Canada. I wouldn't be selling my lavs for any less.
Tha market up here in Canada is excellent and is just growing daily. Breeders need to see this and keep prices at good but fair prices. Sure you could advertise a lavender up here for 125$ and sell out quick, but what about the other breeders up here. I bet it pisses them off when one breeder is selling one snake for half they are and taking all the business, it sure has made me aliitle angry but hey what can you do, right. In the US lavs are still going for 150 US, why are Canadians selling them for 125 Canadian, that's ludacris. After the exchange on the dollar shipping for a snake to come over the border and the hassel of doing it all, a 125 US snake turns into 300Canadian. The prices have dropped so low here that it almost sickens me. corns up here should be the same price as the US but add the exchange rate, then add in a rarity factor (for rarities like lavs) for each snake.
There is a market up here but people saying they won't pay 200 for a corn is stupid, why not?, just because it's a cornsnake. A lone normal BP still goes for 250 but a normal corn is only 20, I don't get it.
If the breeders here don't do something quick about pricing the whole market will soon be bottomed out and a corn will be going for 5$, and no-one wants that to happen. I have been following the market here for just a few short years but have seen prices drop so drastically, it's nuts, it just leaves you shaking your head. The only thing is, one person won't make a difference, many breeders need to get this market straight before it's to messed, and it's almost at the point of no return.

Actually some lavs have the red eyes, my male adult lav has the ruby eyed look, though he is much lighter in comparison to my adult female lav. He almost looks like a hypo lav. Hopefully I'll be getting aggs from them next season as they didn't go this year.

I also don't think it's right for a breeder to drop their prices real low and take customers away from other breeders because of price. Sure some competition is good, butthe way we are cometing with each other up here is horrible, everyone wants to be number one so they slash prices. Look at the US prices they stay relatively the same with minor adjustments but it works well and the market has plenty of time to make money. Up here the market will soon bottom out if we keep going at this pace.

I completely agree with the fact of a new morph coming out, you should hold the hets because if you do you will be losing out anf it's market will bottom out.

[Siretsap]

Well Simon, there are some blue corns. I saw them with my own eyes. And let me tell you, they do get more blue in them when they grow.

[Simon]

CornBall,

I totally agree with you. This is why I am stating that we breeders sometimes have to work together and get this market price strighten up. Of course this might not be good for customers, but for us breeders especially with the rare morphs here, are risking a lot bringin animals from the US back up into Canada and take another 2 years to raise them up and hope that they would be ready to breed in 2 years plus hoping that they don't just die on us when we spend the money into buying, keeping, caring, cleaning, and risk getting caught at the boarder and have to go through all the hassle. Then two years later when we really could breed there is another breeder that just wants to get the animal out so under cuts us at least at 1/2 of our price.....this is totally insane....

I too think that our price should equal to the US price. I don't konw why there are so many people that would actually sell even lower than the US price. Why are we Canadians doing that? I have no idea....corn snakes are from the US. Following the US price isn't wrong people....don't ruin the price and just follow what the US people are setting it. (Hey at least we don't have to scrach our heads and think of the price right? The people in the US already did that for us.....all we have to do is to follow and add the stupid exchange rate and ta da~ we have our price in Canadian dollars. Saves people from going down to the US to pick them up, getting good quality animals, and best of all....no risk of getting kicked in the butt for bringing snakes up to Canada. Sigh......not too many people here understands this at all.....good thing that there are at least some that understands..

Siretsap,
Actually I have seen the 'blue corn' myself already. To tell you the truth I don't really consider that as blue...king od greyish.....charcoalish....not really the blue that I would say it is. I have seen adult versions of these too but really.....I would just call it anery or ghost (just with another versoin of hypo...cause Rich from the US is thinking that there are more than 3 versions of hypo out there....as if we don't already have enough...lol) so from what I think those 'blue corns are just another version of anery a plus another version of those weird hypos. If I had those 'blue corns' I would definately not advertise them as 'blue corns' Cause the blue that I am thinking are the blue like in the Canadian Maple Leafs kind of blue......lol

[marisa]

I agree with Simon. I have seen a couple of big debates about these "blue" corns but in reality I think they are just another shade of lavendars, ghosts, or anerys. All things are variable, like normal corns, and its confusing and stupid IMHO to put a new name on a snake just because its a different shade.

Take normals, one may have lots of brown while another may lean more to the red side. It would be annoying if people started calling these "red phase normals" or "high brown normals" its a normal, plain and simple.

I have failed to see much "blue" in those "blue" corns, in fact I haev seen ghosts and lavs that look more "blue"

Then again I haven't seen them all of course and this is just from my participation on other forums and tlaking to other people.

Marisa