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xxbad
09-17-03, 09:21 PM
Read all thanx. hi do you let you reptiles wonder your house while you gone? Do you just set em on the floor sometimes and dont worry about em i do all the time well you can do this with the right kind of reptile mine is a chinese water dragon i can only do it with one of them though the other one will go under heavy furniture

one time my water dragon had no cage for 4 days she just wonderd around for 4 days she was fed and had drinks though and went outside for uvb but she had the time of her life.

wonders around in the moring goes in our huge fake tree playin there for half a day does some other random stuff and then climbs up ther curtains gets on a poll and sleeps

xxbad
09-17-03, 09:22 PM
lol not you reptiles your reptiles lol im tired

sapphire_moon
09-17-03, 09:36 PM
Ummm sure, when I want to lose them???? I wouldn't mind with something big......like a calm iguana, or a larger tortoise....but something smaller..........i don't think so.

Burm41
09-17-03, 09:36 PM
lol i wish i could do that but my snakes are kinda small atm (at the moment) and well i dont think i can ever do that cuz i would be worried sick if i lost them and probably would too

xxbad
09-17-03, 09:40 PM
Ya cant do it to much with snakes lol can berely keep em in the cage with there sly slitherin ways one times i put my snake down for 1 second boom hes half way in a vent before i grab him but with some snakes you can do this

xxbad
09-17-03, 09:42 PM
saphire of course you cant do this with small things i have a calm water dragon she is only 18 inches but thats not to small almost big enough to eat pinky mice.

Burm41
09-17-03, 09:46 PM
Yea the only snake i would let roam around my house would be atleast a 12' snake :) like a burm or retic something that size would be fine but would keep it in my room so he/she would minimize the damage it does if it were to go on a shelf with glass.

burmer
09-17-03, 09:46 PM
Besides the fact that my cats would be gone in a few minutes, NO!! I never let my reptiles run the house. There are just too many things that could happen. They can knock things over and if they are small enough they get lost.

J-Man
09-17-03, 09:46 PM
lol burm41, why would you type atm and then type out at the moment? what's the sense?

xxbad
09-17-03, 09:52 PM
lol the cat problem my cat is freindly to my lizard my lizard hates her though. Im trying to teach my lizard to like her. Have you ever seen an angry water dragon or an angry aiguana they look the same they puff up to beefen up there size start shaking becuase there flexing there musstles open there mouth get there tail ready for whipping lol so my big cat is scared of a 18 inch lizard. But they stay out of each others way.

Ya you cant really do this with to much snakes with a lot of lizards its ok

ChunkyMunky
09-17-03, 09:57 PM
LOL J-man, I was thinking the same thing, but thats besides the point. I wouldnt let my snakes wander around the house unless under close supervision, and i would much rather heat a large box over a large room.

xxbad
09-17-03, 10:05 PM
you can hardly do this with snakes can anyone do this with snakes?

Zoe
09-17-03, 10:09 PM
I would never let my herps roam around the house unless I was right there with them, ESPECIALLY not when I'm not at home.

And I would never, ever let them go outside!!!! A 10 foot snake, maybe, but NOT a 1.5' water dragon. You are lucky she came back, but I wouldn't risk it again. If you don't have a cage, don't have herps.

I let my boa and adult carpets roam around outside sometimes, but I am always right there in case they decide to take off.

Also, you can't make a lizard like a cat. Lizards don't work that way. You might get her to tolerate the cat eventually, and stress her out in the process. I would, however, advise you not to put your cat and water dragon together. Your cat may not seem to mind the water dragon for the moment, but who knows when your cat's instincts will kick in.

Zoe

xxbad
09-17-03, 10:16 PM
Ya i have gaven up on the cat thing i have tried to get em to tolerate eachother and usually when they see eachother they run from eachother and do you know much about water dragons my water dragon can live in my house practically many lizard owners do this. Some snake owners. And i have a cage it was a 4 day preiod i wouldnt give my water dragon up becuase fo a four day thing and about the cats instincts my cat when she was smaller would bounce on him and try to attack him. But she has been taught and trust my water dragon is safe and can wonder around my house she is right now she is in the kitchen i believe not 2 sanitary lol but water dragons bathe them selves a lot.

You see my houses decoration them is jungle fake plants everywhere so my water dragon loves it.

You can do this with iguanas also my neighbors do.

NewLineReptile
09-17-03, 10:19 PM
I let my one Burm go around my house when i am with her but not to many of my other large snake do that. To leave them out when you are not there is not to SMART. They could get into something that could harm them or even kill them. I have Water Dragons and i know that they lick and taste everything so you might want to think about that.

There is so many things around the house that would not be good for your water dragon to get into.

Brandon

HetForHuman
09-17-03, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by xxbad
you can hardly do this with snakes can anyone do this with snakes?

Why couldnt you?

And also i think it is very irresponsible to let your herp run around the house for 4 days and think oh he knows what hes doing so he'll be alright for 4 days to do what he wants.

and i would never leave a reptile in my house unsupervised, EVER.

And 1 other thing i can barely understand your posts. Try a spellchecker or something man.

xxbad
09-17-03, 10:27 PM
i know my typing has been bad i learned how to type wrong so im doing it the right way gettin used to it and i know so much about water dragon and when they lick the floor there are smelling its how they smell i have let my water dragon do this for almost a year now and i know other ppl who do this everyone here is freakin out i have a website on water dragon where ppl ask me question www.freewebs.com/chinesewaterdragon

i know a lot i have cured a respritory disease on my water dragon its not that hard actually. well what ever your opinion is thats cool

Zoe
09-17-03, 10:27 PM
do you know much about water dragons my water dragon can live in my house practically many lizard owners do this.
Yes, I do. And yes, some owners do let their lizards live in the house. It isn't necessarily smart, though. When it comes to large iguanas it's not so bad, they can't really get into little spaces. But water dragons are pretty small (1.5 feet isn't big). I know a person who let's his live in his house, they have a special corner set up and works okay, but he's had a couple die when they got sick and he obviously couldn't find them because they were hiding. And he does NOT let them go outside.

about the cats instincts my cat when she was smaller would bounce on him and try to attack him. But she has been taught and trust my water dragon is safe and can wonder around my house
So you let your cat attack your water dragon before you taught her otherwise? I'm not saying that cats and reptiles can't live in the same environment (I've seen this done with Iguanas and cats), but I'm not saying it's a smart thing to do, especially when your little lady is only a foot and a half. You never know when your cat's instincts will kick in.

All this to say, it probably isn't the wisest thing to let your 18 inch water dragon wander around a house with a cat and access to the outdoors. There are just too many variables (wild animals and other cats, pesticides and other poisons, people who don't like reptiles, cold spells etc). And if your dragon get's sick you can bet she won't be out in the open for "predators" to find her. I'm only saying this because I've seen it before and I don't want to see it again.

Zoe

xxbad
09-17-03, 10:31 PM
oops lol not bounce pounce you know they try to sneak up on em. then i grabbed my cat back then i watched him well this water dragon has shown exceptionally good bahaviour i cant do this with my other 2 water dragons

NewLineReptile
09-17-03, 10:34 PM
Just because you know alot about them does not mean SH^T!
If you licked "Bleach" on the floor do you think it could harm you?
Even know they lick for smell if they came in contact with something like that it could harm them.

Don't get me wrong letting them out is cool if they you are there but to leave them out for 4 day's when you are not there?

Just my 2 cents But what do i know

Brandon

Pia
09-17-03, 10:34 PM
I don't let them roam freely, too many things to get into. I often close the door to the room my herps are in and let my beardie out for hours at a time, he also has a window seat he basks on in the summer (I open the window and there is a screen to keep him from getting out). I let my ball python out to roam around in the same room but I am always in there with her.

xxbad
09-17-03, 10:40 PM
ya you just cant let your hersps do this in some houses but i let my water dragon get into stuff she always goes into the bookcase and movie cuboard lol

DarkHunter
09-18-03, 05:04 AM
xxbad- I agree with everyone else on here...Letting your reptiles out of the cage is one thing but be smart about it. If you had a 2 year old son would you leave him alone for 4 days? The point is that kids are curious just like animals....letting him out of his cage...into a whole new enviroment is something i'd personally like to suprivise with my reptiles.....ACCIDENTS CAN HAPPEN!!!!!! i wouldn't suggest doing that again, hell , your lucky she came back inside in the first place!!
~Shannon

jwsporty
09-18-03, 06:05 AM
I will only let my larger kings and my hondo cruise around supervised in a controlled environment. Anything else and you are tempting fate. Free reign is just irresponsible.

LISA127
09-18-03, 08:01 AM
I let my blue tongued skink out to roam, but only when I'm home! I used to let him roam the whole house, but I recently added a new kitten to the family. Which now makes 3 cats and a dog. The dog would never hurt the bts, she's as gentle as they come. But cats have a very high prey drive. My adult cats have always left the bts alone, but this kitten is a different story. Plus, 3 cats and a dog would be too stressful for the bts. So now I shut the door to a room and let him roam in there for a while when it is warm enough. Not in the winter.

SerpentLust
09-18-03, 08:26 AM
I would let an adult Savannah Monitor wander maybe. But I only have smaller snakes right now and quite frankly if I lost montey I would be heartbroken.

Jenn

spyderman
09-18-03, 08:58 AM
NOT a wise idea with ANY kind of reptile.

drewlowe
09-18-03, 10:26 AM
I agree with most the people here. I wouldn't let my reptiles roam free around the house at all. I may get one of my beardies out for a few hours but i'm always there he usually sits behind me on the couch but i always know where he is and what he's doing. Plus i live in a basement and i know i would lose them Even worse it's usually too cold down there for them unless they are in thier cages.

gauts28
09-18-03, 11:18 AM
i know other ppl who do this everyone here is freakin out i have a website on water dragon where ppl ask me question

So you know people who do the same thing as you? That just means they are no brighter than you and if people you know jump of a bridge would you do it too?

Of course we are freaking out… Do you even read what you are writing? And about your website, maybe you should research more about reptiles before you answer questions from other people. With what you are saying on this thread, I have big doubts about your knowledge of reptiles. One other thing about the freaking out thing, maybe you should listen to people who are older, wiser and know more then you.

chas*e
09-19-03, 11:03 AM
I like my cats and dogs, whom are already looked at as food items by my Burms.....lol

liltattyprinces
09-19-03, 12:59 PM
How do I put this nicely, any yahoo can set up a web site about anything and claim they are an expert on whatever. Great take your reptile out my kids an i do it all the time ,it's always supervised though, but to leave it while your gone or to not even supervise it, that tells me that your an irresponsible owner, you can justify it to yourself any way you want , but what it boils down to is irresponsibility, how will you feel when it gets into something toxic or breaks a leg ect cuz something heavy falls on it. I don't mean to come down on you so hard but i can't stand ppl taking unnecessary risks with beautiful creatures

Siretsap
09-19-03, 01:16 PM
If you want it to roam around in an open space, then just take a whole room and modify it to it's needs. I wouln't let my snakes or water dragons roam free in my house, too many things could happen

xxbad
09-21-03, 08:45 PM
ok ya i dont have bleach or toxic crap on my carpet before i let her wonder i vacume the carpet and my water dragon will never go under heavy furniture unlike my brothers furniture. And the youngest person in my house is 9. who owns a water dragon also. And as i have said before my houses decoration theme is jungle. its practically a big cage for her. And only one of the 3 of our water dragons we let do this becuase she is calm. She would stay in our fake tree all day long sometimes. yes a i make sure she gets uvb. theres nothing toxic it can get into. and nothing is going to fall on it. I havent been in your houses but mine theres nothing that is going to fall on her.

xxbad
09-21-03, 08:47 PM
I was watching this show there was this guy who had a lot of snakes he new how to hypnotize nskaes he said he loved his sankes more than any humans. He had wondering his house there was a pregnant one in a corner i remember watching. he had some snakes in his bed. but he had cages also like me

Burm41
09-21-03, 08:50 PM
ok... doesnt seem true to me, but what channel was this on?

xxbad
09-21-03, 09:06 PM
this may sound weird but it was on cops channel 13 the cop that came over hated anskaes and asked the guy if he would come get a snake of this persons lawn that they got a call about and the guy said sure ill hypnotize em.

Linds
09-21-03, 09:08 PM
I only have one herp that goes unattended in the house and that is Iggy, my 19 year old iguana. She hasn't had an indoor cage since she was 3-4 years old. She has her spot in the house where she goes to warm up under her basking lamp when she needs it. She generally only uses about 15% of the house even though she has access to all of it (basement not included in this). She does have a cage outdoors for the summer but that's it.

Originally posted by Burm41
Yea the only snake i would let roam around my house would be atleast a 12' snake :)

I wouldn't let ANY snake... no matter how large... roam around unattended. There have been many cases of burms and other large boids making their way up inside couches and whatnot. Unless you want to rip apart whatever they crawled in, your not going to be getting them out. If they are comfy, they are in no hurry whatsoever. I spoke with someone who lost a large burm in their couch for 1.5 weeks :rolleyes: Snakes are notorious for squeezing and distorting themselves to get in to places we cannot :rolleyes:

LadyHawke
09-21-03, 09:15 PM
i let certain reptiles roam in my reptile room, not together, but i am always there
there's many things that can go wrong, even supervised!! thats why they are called 'accidents'. electrical sockets will be very unforgiving, broken lamps are a fire hazard, most house plants are poisonus and even if you dont have any...if they think its food they will try to eat it and that could be fatal, falling objects, loose of grip and falling....the list can go on and on.

xxbad
09-21-03, 09:16 PM
so you let your iggy roam the house unattended? she has no cage? hmm no cage never heard of that well as long as shes healthy water dragons and iggy's are very calm if all you other ppl dont know

Zoe
09-21-03, 09:22 PM
so you let your iggy roam the house unattended? she has no cage? hmm no cage never heard of that well as long as shes healthy water dragons and iggy's are very calm if all you other ppl dont know There is a BIG difference between a large, 20 year old iguana that has always had no cage, and a small, young water dragon.

And don't say that there is nothing in your house that could hurt her, because it isn't true! Unless you have NO cleaning products, NO beauty stuff like hair spray, NO first aid kit, NO access to the outdoors, NO shelves or tables that are higher up that 6".

Zoe

xxbad
09-21-03, 09:23 PM
my water dragon dosent go in my bathroom or my cleaning closet and dosent get into my medicin cabinenet lol.

Linds
09-21-03, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by xxbad
so you let your iggy roam the house unattended? she has no cage? hmm no cage never heard of that well as long as shes healthy water dragons and iggy's are very calm if all you other ppl dont know

Yup she's been a free-roamer most of her life. I woudln't recommend it with most situations though, and will probably never ever have any other herp that was a free-roamer. She's healthy now, but was an MBD case as a baby :( LOL I lucked in with my girl... probably one of the more docile igs out there. Most Igs are FAR from calm and quite the opposite and can be quite agressive. One of the many reasons they are "disposable pets" :(

Zoe
09-21-03, 10:42 PM
my water dragon dosent go in my bathroom or my cleaning closet and dosent get into my medicin cabinenet lol.

I realize that no, she probably doesn't. But she can, all it takes is one moment of inattention and your water dragon is in some fatal cleaning product under the sink or in the bathroom.

And like I said, I am SURE there are shelves and tables and desks all over in your house, and it is pretty easy for a WD to fall off of one and hurt themselves which makes them available to predators such as the CATS that you allow to jump on your water dragon, not to mention the hefty vet costs to splint a broken arm or leg or tail.

AND she has access to the outdoors, which opens a whole can of worms, of pesticides, predators, cold, etc etc etc.

Long story short, only let your dragon out in a closed room when you are there to supervise.

Zoe

Snakecharm
09-22-03, 10:35 AM
I think the closest I come to having something permitted to roam is that I will often take my bigger snakes into the bedroom, lay them on the bed and close the door while I clean their tubs in the other room. The vents in my apartment are all at ceiling level, and about the only thing in the bedroom is the bed. However, as soon as the tub is cleaned, they go right back in. We're talking all of 5-10 minutes.

It's not a good idea to let herps roam, especially with other pets in the house.

xxbad
09-25-03, 09:23 PM
my water dragon doesent have accsess to the outside. And water dragons can fall from my furniture and be ok how she gets down from high thing she uses her tail to lower herself and jumps water dragon are climbers. linds thats awsome no cage but you cant do this with every iggy i think you must have a special iguana awsome anf all of you who dont know how calm water dragons they are calmer than iggy's

Oliverian
09-25-03, 10:35 PM
all of you who dont know how calm water dragons they are calmer than iggy's
Have you ever owned an Iguana? Just curious.

ReptiZone
09-25-03, 10:50 PM
I am gona be nice to you but I am realy upset with you.

I have bad spelling so bare with me.

free roaming= accidents and BY-LAWS.

if you knew so much about water dragons you would know that they need to have there heat and humidaty all the time and need to have there basking spots at any given time of the day.
Now having fake plants and nice places to hide is a verry nice home decore. BUT the avreg home is around 72* F totaly not enugh for a water dragon maby at night but not all day (meaning the 4 day perioud) now you can try and feed me the crap about you had the hole hous heated for the 4 day perioud buy I and most ppl here will just not belive you.

reptiles are display animals in no way do they LIKE being in our hands we just like to think so it should have a cage with all the apropriat requierments and dont handeld unles you are cleaning the cage our for some ocasional exercize every coupl of weeks.

I took my retic out for 5 min do you wana know where he went first right under the fridge and we are talking a 8 foot snake well I told my self he will come out on his own so I wated 1 hour nope dident move a inch so I started to move the fridge and what do you know the proces of moving the fringe cut him not deep but it was a long gash along his back now it is gone but you can still see where it hapend cause the scales did not get there colours back yet so all you see is one big black line. it only takes a second B4 things go realy wrong.

A good portion of snakes are climers and they break ribs all the time a tumble from to high up and to a rock in there enclosure and the damage is done and that is just a few feet high emagin a fall from a computer desk or somthing.

And as far as answering ppl questions I would keep your day job if you have on be cause I will tell you right now. Half the S#!T you know about water dragons is just that..*****.

you may think you are knowlegeble but you realy know just a frection of what the herpacultur is. That portion being what a WD looks like. I good quote I see aften on these forums "never try to list you knowlege cause you will soon realise you know verry littel."

I have ben doing this hobby for going on 8 years ask some of my friends here and they will tell you I know alot of use full stuff but I am telling you that I know nothimg compared to some ppl here.

if you think having knowlege telling a bunch of newbies what to do with there WD (enclosures, lights, a few feeding tips,) well you have a long road a head of you.

Just to name a few ppl here that are knowlegeble

Steeve B, Jeff favelle, Chris Marshell, V.hb..... just to name a few
and the funy thing is you ask them what they know and they will say "I know a few things but realy not much just enught to get by" and these ppl make me look like a newbie.

read more and never stop studing about your animal amd plz keep it in a cage.

look at reptiles with you eyes not your hands.

MontyPython
09-25-03, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by xxbad
I was watching this show there was this guy who had a lot of snakes he new how to hypnotize nskaes

There is no possible way to hypnotize a snake!

What are you, 12? Learn to take better care of your reptiles before something happens to them that you will regret!

Jeff_Favelle
09-26-03, 12:12 AM
look at reptiles with you eyes not your hands.


EXACTLY! I learn NEW stuff every day. Its what keeps you pumped about working with these things.


Amen! :D

snakemann87
09-26-03, 01:45 AM
Great preaching Marc......very true

And to answer your question xxbad.....................no

Lisa
09-26-03, 09:59 AM
Unless you have a UV light set up there is no UV coming into your house.

GI Joe
09-26-03, 10:17 AM
Chondro, I agree with almost everything you said except for the handling part. That is not a hard and fast rule. Many reptiles enjoy handling. Most bearded dragons love to be petted. My BP will come to the front of the enclosure by the door when I enter my office. If I open the door she comes straight to my hand and climbs up. When I put her back in she stays by the door until I leave the room or ignore her for about 10 minutes before she goes back into her hide. In fact it is interesting if someone enters my office with me she won't come to the door and if I open the door she heads for the hide. So, I don't subject her to visitors.

Jeff

ReptiZone
09-26-03, 09:02 PM
what you are saying there is a clasic case of Anthropomorphism (meaning you give human emotion to your inanimate object or animals.) so as much as we would like to think our animals enjoy our prensence they dont need it to thrive as far as try to say well they need the exersize that is not a justified reason either cause it is our duty to provide a large enugh enclosures so that handaling is put to a minimum. I am strong beliver that reptiles dont need me to intervine with there lives unless it is feeding time of cleaning time. I know my animals dont love me but I still love watching them do there thing.

The sonner ppl realise that the better off this hobby will be.

remember look with your eyes not your hands.

Marc Doiron

MontyPython
09-26-03, 09:10 PM
Marc, why keep reptiles at all if they don't need you to to begin with? Go to a zoo to look with your eyes and not your hands, me I'll continue to hold my ball python. :p

ReptiZone
09-26-03, 09:26 PM
FYI I am planing on opaning reptile only zoo in the future so I am slowly geting my personal collection larger so I have somthing to put in there when I open the doors.

If you hade fish in a huge tank would you be holding it all the time I dont think so. If you want a animal to pet get somthng furry if you want an animal to admire and studdy get a herp.

If you knew me you would know why I own my herps but since you dont you have no idea what my plans for the future are.

Would you like fries with the foot you just stuck in your mouth.

Sunrunner
09-26-03, 09:52 PM
When my family lived in Africa some crazy **** was "free roaming" in our house. Yeash! Now that was an accident waiting to happen! LOL But as far as WD falling I don't think that would be a major concern, WD are really excellent climbers, better then a kitten, and I don't think anyone locks a kitten in a cage (do they?) as far as the toxic/crushing dangers those are very real dangers but a little free roaming with supervision isn't a big problem in my opinion. And really what makes the risk of a free roaming 20 yr old iguana ingesting a toxic substance any less then a WD. I have two semi free roaming iggys (they are confined to my indoor zoo, hehe fancy reptile room name..) i have never had any probs with that, they get their UV and heat and are very healthy, mind u a WD is quite a bit smaller and thus can fit alot of places an old iggy couldn't so there IS more risk invovled. As for never handling your reptiles, well thats bunk. By the way chondro aren't you holding a herp in your avatar pic...and we don't hold fish because they can't breath or else we probably would. My reptiles are handled all the time and you would be hard pressed to find healthier herps any where. Not only do I handle them but the kids who come to my shows do too, a little temporary stress but never has it compromised their health or I would stop. Listen letting animals free roam is really an uneccessary risk, I know your heart is in the right place xxbad, my house is all jungle like too but why take chances. Let your little buddies out for a few hours, take some good pics, then put 'em back home. Enjoy and ensure their health and safety all at once. Cats are very untrustable too, I have had a problem with cats before. Very predatorial. I let my guys free roam all the time, supervised, generally they never leave a plant or window ledge but why take a chance, you wouldn't let your kid "free roam" down the street because they wouldn't know what to do. Herps are not in their element in house and thus probably pretty confused and in danger of hurting themselves. Just my thoughts, and by the way fries suck.

Zoe
09-26-03, 09:53 PM
Chondro, I agree with almost everything you said except for the handling part. That is not a hard and fast rule. Many reptiles enjoy handling. Most bearded dragons love to be petted. My BP will come to the front of the enclosure by the door when I enter my office. If I open the door she comes straight to my hand and climbs up...

Yup, that is anthropomorphism. To the snake, you are a warm branch, not a friend. In the wild, it is in a mammal's interest to be sociable (for wolves, elephants, rats, to keep from danger and such) and so is it in captivity (humans give treats and protect). In the wild, it is NOT an advantage for a reptile to socialize, for it would endanger it. Same thing as in captivity. It is possible that the snake is familiar with your scent and ways of movement, but not that your snake "likes" you better than other people or "misses" you when you leave.

my water dragon went outside for uvb but she had the time of her life.
my water dragon doesent have accsess to the outside.
I see... That makes sense.

And water dragons can fall from my furniture and be ok Yup! And Humans can fall 15 stories and be fine, too!

how calm water dragons they are calmer than iggy's And you know that because you've owned lots and lots of iguanas and water dragons, right? And anyway, a few posts back you said:
water dragons and iggy's are very calm

honduranfreekk
09-26-03, 10:07 PM
Not trying to be rude here xxbad but you should realy read up on what you keep before you take on the responsabilaty of herp,s so that they get the care they need and deserve excuse the spelling it,s late lol
Just my 2cets

Happy herping to all :)

ReptiZone
09-26-03, 11:03 PM
ya I am holding a herp in my avatar and FYI It was at a educational show just like the ones you seem to enjoy doing and bringing alligators and caimens to. I had to pay $5 for that pic and I wanted it just for the avatar. other than that I would have just looked at it and enjoyed its presence.

Ask any herp breeder the less you handel your animals the better off they are come breeding season and that is fact not just me blowing smoke up you @$$.

as much as it may hurt why can't you ppl just say I am right.
Handaling is not a thing that they neede to survive and herps do better with out it in some cases.

and if you are the kind of person that tells them self that there animal needs exersize so that is your excuse to taking them out every day then you should consider giving them a biger cage and if you feel that it is just not needed you should re-evaluat the reason why you have herps.

I am tierd of seeing ppl buying small herps (Ball Pythons, corn snakes, water dragons.......) just because they are COOLER then hamsters.

if you want somthing cute a cudely buy a hamster if you want to get a herp be ready to buy a nice size cage with lots of hids big water dishes some branches and all the proper heat and humidity requierments and once you have it all set you perfectly why would you bother them can't you see when a herp is realy content. But nooooo you need get the most comen herp and give it only what it needs to live and have it out every 2 days just to add the extra dose of stress.

I may sound like a ranting lunatic but this is how I feal about herps I hadel my herps every week (cleaning day) and they SEE me every day (frech water.)

I have nothig against taking nice pic's and stuff but I am addressing the ppl that watch TV with there herps or do there home work with them around there neck or are on the net with there herps. and so on and so on.

Sunrunner
09-26-03, 11:22 PM
I completely agree with the whole breeding thing but don't expect people to just agree with you because I honestly don't feel you are right. Most reptiles (not all) can adjust to human precence and interaction like any other creature. In my own case it is neccessary to keep them used to the idea of human handeling to lower (not negate) stress and prevent lash outs. Most of my herps take handling quite well I won't say they like it but they tolerate it however some, like my gator, i feel will probably never get used to it. It a common sense thing there is no absolute answer to this question, some do better then others, like most things to do with reptiles at most we know very little and have to go by our judgement. Reptiles are not socail they are not domesticated but they can be handled within the proper parameters. My opinion take it or leave it.

ReptiZone
09-27-03, 12:06 AM
I agre with your opinion that tere is realy no black or white only shades of grey.

you hadel daily to insure the positive out come when ppl see them at your shows. I dont handel them becaus I want ppl to see that they are built killers and do what they need to do to live.

I dont like ppl seeing that they are docile because if you are going to get into this hobby be ready to meet the bigest and nastiest things on the face of this planet (figure of speach reptiles are not nasty)

cause even a ball or corn can be unpredictable I was talking to this guy at work he wanted to return his ball python becaus it snaped at him every time he walked buy like face it ppl it is a reptile they are not cute a cudely they just do there thing and if you dont like it leave them there.

I am the kind of person the will build a cage around what my animals need. If I have a rather unplesent animal I build a cage with a divider so I dont need to come in contact with the animal. It is not because I dont want to deal with it or dont know how I just feal that If I can avoid stress why not.

why dont we ppl stop trying to so called "TAME" our animals and just let them live there lives and just enjoy what they do best being beautiful in a well decorated cage.

MontyPython
09-27-03, 12:56 AM
LMAO, would you like fries with the foot you just stuck in your mouth. THAT is hilarious!

If I had fish in a tank of course I would hold them, where's the enjoyment in just LOOKING at a fish? P.S. don't believe everything you read!

How far into the future do you plan on opening up this reptile zoo? You are gonna take some grammar courses so you can correctly spell the animals proper latin name aren't you? I'm not saying it can't be done, but do you know what it takes to run a zoo? I don't so that is why I am asking. If the animals get sick are you just gonna sit there and watch them die cause you belive that they shouldn't be touched, let nature take it's course? I have some respect for what you are trying to convey to others, but sometimes you say the weirdest things! HA no offense meant on anything I said. Good Luck with your reptile zoo and in the future I will ask a question before I assume an answer cause foot fries are nasty, i'd rather just have the taco or burger, toss the fries. Okay, I am finished for now...

MontyPython
09-27-03, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by chondro python
why dont we ppl stop trying to so called "TAME" our animals and just let them live there lives and just enjoy what they do best being beautiful in a well decorated cage.

I thought what they do best is live in their natural enviroment

:medteeths

ReptiZone
09-27-03, 02:09 AM
FYI I was a curator for a reptile only zoo where do you think the Idea came from and if all you have to complain about is my gramar then I am on the right road. I just care for that animals and make sure they have everything they need I will be letting my secratarie take care of the fancy paper work. You need to stop asuming I am a moron. I worked 75 hours a week in a reptile zoo to insure all the animals are well cared for and monitored there health and interviend when I needed to I just hate working for other ppl and as far as how far I am into my plans that realy isent any of your buissnes.

I handel animals all the time every day I have somthing in my hands I just dont watch TV with them or play computer games with them on my shoulders.

when I need to clean a cage I dont just shoo the animal to one side I remove it and clean and then I replace it like I said it is noe becaus I can't it is because I dont like stressing my animals more then I have to If I can get around and not touch the animals then all the better for the animals I do on ocasion take a few pic's with large animals to place in my scrap books. what I am refering to is the needles handeling most of the pic's I have are done the same time I remove the animal for a cage cleaning. do you get my drift.

The handeling I am refering to is form the teenie bopers that think it is cool to play playstation with there ball python around there neck.

do you get my point now.

I was just geting ready to turn 18 in this pic and you wana make me look like I am just some guy that is blowing smoke

I say because i have spent more time in a cage (Figure of speach) then you have and I have observed these animals on my lunch breaks.
how many of you can say they sat in 8 X 4 X 4 cage with a 14 Foot green Anaconda reading a book about herps. And were comfertable!! $H!T how many of you can say you are comfertable being around a 14 foot green Anaconda. Well I have!! Why because I love spending time with them looking at them seeing there behaviore it is just mesmorising if you just leave them alone why take an animal out of there home when you can share space with them on there terms why have them out in a house Enviorment of sometimes below70*F when you can read a book with them onder there terms 80*-85*F(not a recomended thing i see my mistake today.)

Here is a pic of me having fun with herps just like the next guy but this pic was taken on cleaning day so the animals had to be removed so I took the time for a few pic's.

baby Nile crocodile
http://www.magazoo.com/albumsphotos/reptizone/Python%20/me_and_nile_croc.jpg

Nile Monitor
B4
http://www.magazoo.com/albumsphotos/reptizone/Python%20/nile_monitor_2.jpg

Nile Monitor
After
http://www.magazoo.com/albumsphotos/reptizone/Python%20/nile_monitor.jpg

Feeding Black Throught
http://www.magazoo.com/albumsphotos/reptizone/Python%20/white_throat_monitor.jpg

Reticulated Python
http://www.magazoo.com/albumsphotos/reptizone/Python%20/me-and-reticulated-python-2.jpg

African Rock Python
http://www.magazoo.com/albumsphotos/reptizone/Python%20/1410me_and_african_rock_python.jpg

Not that is a snake I took ot just for a pic caus it was the only one I did not have in my books

Removing Green Anaconda
http://www.magazoo.com/albumsphotos/reptizone/Python%20/cleaning_anaconda_cage.jpg

Removing Green Anaconda on ANOTHER cleaning day.
http://www.magazoo.com/albumsphotos/reptizone/Python%20/1410me_and_anaconda.jpg

As you can see I still have fun with herps but I dont over do it with any un-nesesary handaling.

so will you plz stope treating me like a moron caus I am trying to get a real valid point acros althow it way seam wierd at least think about what I might be saying some times.

to some ppl here I might have had the job of your dreams but I want more then that.

and to others it may just be another day at the shop...LOL

ReptiZone
09-27-03, 02:09 AM
sorry double posted

Jeff_Favelle
09-27-03, 03:24 AM
That Retic looks like its going to strike your face man!! That's what they do, you know? :D

V.hb
09-27-03, 07:50 AM
xxbad, do you have a dog? if not get one. I have a few of those they like to free roam, and dont hurt themselves.

I'll also add that Iguanas and WD are not calm. Its all an individual trait. Some are calmer then others.
I have owned both species, and to be honest i find WD's flighty, ESPEACIALLY in open spaces. You make a reference to your WD falling off furniture and being fine, that bothers me.. How do you know? Maybe the reason your WD is so calm is it has fractures you know nothing about?

Oh, and to add.. As cool as Iguanas are, if you claim they're all calm I have scars to prove to you that Igs are as unpredictable as reptiles can get! ever have a big 6 footer sink its teeth into your arm? or rake its claws on you while you're chasing it? Letting either species free-roam is looking for trouble. period.

jay76
09-27-03, 08:47 AM
To answer the original question, no, I don't let any herps wander my apartment, and not just because they're all too small to keep an eye on. Even when I get the bigger herps that I'd like when I get a new place (monitors and larger snakes) they will NOT be allowed to roam around period, and unsupervised is asking for trouble.

That's a very healthy looking anaconda Marc! Happen to remember what she weighs in at? :)

Zoe
09-27-03, 10:49 AM
Good post Marc... I do agree with you, that a lot of people buy herps for the wrong reasons. However,

if all you have to complain about is my gramar then I am on the right road. I think the point is that your spelling and punctuation are truly awful. I realize that not everyone is a university professor, but a lot of your mistakes are typos and missing punctuation that make your posts really difficult to read. I think if you just read over your posts before submitting them, and made your posts more ledgible, I'm sure everyone would back off with the whole grammar thing.

how many of you can say they sat in 8 X 4 X 4 cage with a 14 Foot green Anaconda reading a book about herps. I think you're a pretty smart guy and know your herps (which is why I don't understand someone questionning your intentions to open a zoo, but anyway) so it surprised me to see you write that. First, you talk about how humans stress herps... you think that conda was comfortable with YOU in ITS cage? Isn't that just asking for trouble? Sure, the conda might seem tame, but if it get's hungry or aggressive there isn't much you can do about it at that point. And honestly, you SHOULDNT be comfortable in the presence of anything that can kill you. If you're comfortable, it means you are no longer as careful as you should be; you take liberties you probably shouldn't take. You obviously shouldn't be nervous, but I wouldn't allow myself to get too comfortable in the presence of a 14 foot conda.

Zoe

V.hb
09-27-03, 10:56 AM
In marcs defence, the guy is French. Correct me if iam wrong marc, but you speak french mostly right? I dont think to many english speakers on here could type perfectly in french either.. Practise makes perfect. This isnt a discussion about someones grammar, its about reptile husbandry and the things we do with our herps.

He wasnt handling the anaconda for fun, it was being cleaned. As he stated, he does it very minimal. I dont see how you thoroughly clean an enclosure without removing the animal from it.

Zoe
09-27-03, 11:10 AM
Oh yeah I know he's french, and I can totally understand some mistakes. But like I said, a lot of them are typos (ie "hadel" instead of "handel") and a near total lack of punctuation (french people do punctuate!) And frankly, I'm french too! (Really! lol)

No, he said he was sitting in the conda's cage, with the condo, just reading a book, which, IMO is a stupid risk and a contradiction for someone who says even minimal handling will stress a herp.

Zoe

MontyPython
09-27-03, 12:59 PM
I never said you were a moron, and for the most part I respect what you are doing! What is with the before and after pics of the Nile Monitor? Please excuse my ignorance...

Oh, Zoe, it's handle... :D

Zoe
09-27-03, 01:01 PM
lol yes I know, but in one sentence marc wrote "hadel" and "handel". That latter is an understandable mistake for a french person, but the former is just a confusing typo :D

Zoe

MontyPython
09-27-03, 01:06 PM
okay, i get it now, was a little confused...

V.hb
09-27-03, 01:57 PM
I still fail to see why his entire thread regarding animals turned into a lets pick apart his grammar thread.... are you really that bored Zoe?

MontyPython
09-27-03, 02:23 PM
I was the one that stared the grammar talk... I like to read things without getting a headache cause of all the spelling errors. I for one respect what Marc is doing, it's just that the grammar errors get in the way sometimes, for me at least. I may not agree with everything Marc says or does, but I respect him cause it is obvious that he loves what he does...

Sunrunner
09-27-03, 02:43 PM
The guys grammar has nothing to do with his skill as a herp keeper, maybe he can barely even spell english words, maybe he feels he's do really well with his writing. Everyone makes typos especailly when they are upset. It doesn't matter does it. Anyway man, if you don't want to HANDLE your herps then don't, it certainly isn't going to harm them by not holding them. And I am fairly certain we all know what he is trying to say grammar errors or not. I know if i tried to write a sentence in french no one would be able to read it LOL. Besides grammar errors are nothing have you ever tried to talk some people down town with all the slang you would think they were speaking a different language.

MontyPython
09-27-03, 02:50 PM
Did I say anywhere in my posts that his grammar or spelling has anything to do with his knowledge of taking care of reptiles? No, now I am going to drop the grammar thing. Ya happy? ;)

ReptiZone
09-27-03, 03:50 PM
Man alot can happen when you are at mall.

ya my spelling is off from time to time I dont plan on wrighting a book any time soon so I will just keep posting they way I am althow I will be over viewing my post just to get somme of the bugs out I can speak fluantly in both languges but I truly suck in grammar in both languages.

I say because i have spent more time in a cage (Figure of speach) then you have and I have observed these animals on my lunch breaks. how many of you can say they sat in 8 X 4 X 4 cage with a 14 Foot green Anaconda reading a book about herps. And were comfertable!! $H!T how many of you can say you are comfertable being around a 14 foot green Anaconda. Well I have!! Why because I love spending time with them looking at them seeing there behaviore it is just mesmorising if you just leave them alone why take an animal out of there home when you can share space with them on there terms why have them out in a house Enviorment of sometimes below70*F when you can read a book with them onder there terms 80*-85*F(not a recomended thing i see my mistake today.)


Zoe as you can see in brakets there I do not recomed doing this and that I see my mistake.

any way I think my point is well put.

Sunrunner
09-27-03, 04:27 PM
whoa monty wasn't directing anything at you man just talking in general.

xxbad
10-14-03, 10:52 PM
ok ya theres nothing wrong with the grammar i call it internet slang. and V.H.B i guarentee you my water dragon dosent have fractures huh. My water dragon is the healthiest out of the 3 we have.

bob_thesnowman
10-15-03, 12:21 AM
XXBAD don't come crying to us when you find you water dragon mauled to death by your cat,i can't believe you have a website where you give people advise,when you said your water dragon was having the time of it's life running around your house,it was probably scared sh*tless and confused,not happy,i'm surprised your water dragon made it through the week

Jeff Hathaway
10-15-03, 07:44 AM
I can't believe that I just read through this whole thread. Here's a few things that came to mind.

Firstly, I never let herps wander unsupervised, and most of mine are temperate creatures that don't require high temps. It is just too big a risk. Yes, you can create a 'jungle room' with a fair bit of care and effort, but then what you are really doing is creating a very large custom enclosure, not letting the herp run free. Occasionally, I will put the blue-tongued skink or beardie on the floor while I clean their cage, and them put them back. That's about as far as I would go.

Other people listed a few of the problems associated with this, but I think only one mentioned a huge one- fire. There have been several cases of people having their houses burned down by free roaming herps (usually iguanas) that knocked over lamps, etc. This is one reason why insurance companies are not big on herps.

On the same note, another problem that insurance companies have is that people who create 'jungle rooms' (actually, even just regular herp rooms) don't usually create them to handle the high humidity for the long term. Walls rot, mould grows, and down the road it is a big cost for repair. If you still own the house, it might be your problem, but if you've moved (or if you were just renting) it will probably become an insurance claim.

For these reasons it is becoming difficult to get house insurance if you have a herp collection. Therefore they alone should be enough reason not to let your herps free roam if you care about the long term future of the hobby.

As for herp handling, I can't agree more that playing PS2 with your ball python around your neck is not a great idea. Nor walking around in the park, doing dishes, etc. However, I wouldn't agree that handling should be restricted to just when cleaning cages. Most people have these animals as 'pets', and assuming that they've chosen wisely (i.e. not a nile monitor) they can and should be able to handle them for 'fun' within reason.

Also, I have recently come to believe that captive snakes, especially, benefit from additional exercise beyond what they get in their enclosure. Size of the enclosure isn't relevant- the snakes sit in their hides most of the time, they don't need to move much to thermoregulate, they don't need to forage for their food, and they don't need to escape predators. Handling them is a poor substitute for these things but I believe that it is better than nothing.

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

xxbad
10-15-03, 03:44 PM
ok my cat stays away fomr my lizard they dont really hate eachother nor like eachother and she wasnt stressed was green a very nice green

bob_thesnowman
10-15-03, 04:02 PM
man everything you say contradicts something you've said before, somebody else pointed this out earlier,and what you said is another classic example,your cat stays away from your lizard??that's not the impression i got before..

Sunrunner
10-15-03, 04:22 PM
Will this thread never end........cat + water dragon = BAD

RTB 84
10-15-03, 05:44 PM
I decided I would let my Rainbow roam around the house for a while one time, before I let him go I made sure everything where he could potentially escape or injure himself was closed off. I put him down for about 5 minutes and couldn't find him afterwards. About 3 hours later I found him stuck under the front of my fridge.. he scared me half to death because he looked like he was dead. That was all it took for me to decide to not let my reptiles loose in my house ever again unless they are under my close supervision.

Jeff_Favelle
10-15-03, 07:14 PM
I was the one that stared the grammar talk...

How exactly does one stare at grammar talk??

BoidKeeper
10-16-03, 04:14 AM
How exactly does one stare at grammar talk??
LMAO!
To those of you who make constant spelling mistakes just know this. Spelling has never been used to measure a person’s intelligence. Some people can't spell just like some people can't walk. When's the last time you laughed at someone who's in a wheel chair? Some people have learning disabilities such as Dyslexia, which dramatically impede upon their ability to spell. And some people are just French like Marc! (ha ha had to man but I meant no offence I'm French too, sort of.) Either way I say if you don't know the whole story then you should lay off.
Trevor

xxbad
10-16-03, 09:24 AM
i just type real fast and dont erase my mistackes unless there really bad like sometimes i spell you oyu by accident in typing

Jeff_Favelle
10-16-03, 11:32 AM
You - uyo is the worst. And I always do three instead of there. Soooooo annoying!

Bartman
10-16-03, 11:45 AM
The only animals i CAN let run around my house is my tortoise, and even she is a bit to small, or my tegu when he gets older and hes not crazy. I wouldnt be able to leave himher alone though since i have 2 cats, but even then i dont know if i should worry for my cats or the tegu :D Anyways as everyone said most of my herps are to small to let run around and they would get away into a vent quite quickly, and then my rents would kill me lol

RepTylE
10-16-03, 12:50 PM
I don't even allow anyone in the room when I'm not home let alone let my herps out when I'm not here.
I don't take any chances with any of my pets. Being gone for around 8 hours when I'm at work would give one of them too much time to get into trouble.

RepTylE
10-16-03, 12:54 PM
Sorry for getting back on topic there

RaVeNo888o
10-16-03, 12:58 PM
i wouldnt let a burn or retic roam around...i would be afraid that i would enter a room and get sabatoged by it :p

BoidKeeper
10-16-03, 03:12 PM
Just ask that Colorodo family if letting a 12' burm roam the house is a good idea?
Trevor

MouseKilla
10-16-03, 04:14 PM
Sabatoged? Like they might cut the power and phone lines on you? Upload a virus onto your computer maybe? LOL!