UTH or Lamp???

[Jazz6279]

I've been reading conflicting information about suitable heat sources for BP's. On one hand i'm being told that UTH is best and on another hand it states that UTH is only really suitable for BP's upto about 2ft because after this length they become quite heavy and are more prone to thermal burns when lying over a UTH??:confused:
Anyway I just thought it would be interesting to get people's opinion on this.
Regards
Fiona.

[Tim_Cranwill]

UTH all the way! If your UTH is controlled by a dimmer or thermostat and is set to 90-92-ish, your bp will be fine. Where did you hear that last bit about their weight from?

[Clownfishie]

Yup -- UTH's are perfectly fine for BPs of all sizes... as long as it's hooked up to a dimmer etc to keep the temp within optimal range...

[ANACONDASAURUS]

I have seen pix showing UTH caught on fire. Just imagine if that UTH caught your whole house on fire. Just be very careful with using the UTH.

[Jazz6279]

I have read a number of care sheets that do disuade you from using a UTH even if you do have it on a thermostat and also have spoken to a few breeders (one of them has been breeding everything from cornsnakes and pythons to woma's and rare exotics for over 26 years) and they agree that UTH isn't their first choice of heating, well not for an adult or sub-adult python as there has been cases of heavy snakes burning their bellies (sat on the warm side for too long) despite it being hooked up to a thermostat. I dunno....maybe its an English thing?? What works for one doesn't work for another i guess, i'm just interested to hear if anyone else has heard of this or had any bad experiences with UTH?

[Tim_Cranwill]

90F will not burn your snake even if it sits right on the heat source for 60 days straight. If you properly regulate the UTH, you should be fine no matter what the snake weighs. Snakes are designed to not sit on the warm side more than they have to. They've been cold blooded their whole lives. ;)

Anacondasaurus, those pics were probably of heat tape that got too hot because it wasn't plugged into a dimmer or thermostat. I've seen similar pics myself. On this site alone, I bet there are 1000's of feet of heat tape being used without incident. It just has to be used properly. It gets really hot if you just plug it into the wall.

[ANACONDASAURUS]

Originally posted by cranwill
Anacondasaurus, those pics were probably of heat tape that got too hot because it wasn't plugged into a dimmer or thermostat. I've seen similar pics myself. On this site alone, I bet there are 1000's of feet of heat tape being used without incident. It just has to be used properly. It gets really hot if you just plug it into the wall.

The pix I saw where of a Zoo Med UTH.

[Tim_Cranwill]

Hmmm.... that's no good....

[Invictus]

I use a combination of UTH's and overheads. I've found both to be enjoyed by several different species in our house. I'm getting REALLY keen on the human heating pad idea though. I think I will give that a try for a few snakes in our house.

[striko_69]

i think that as long as there is a cool enough spot on the other end of the tank that they can move to, to stop from overheating, then they are fine. Just use a thermostat to stop the temp from going too high, and a thermometer inside the tank as well, then you should be able to control the temperature. If you are gonna use a Light bulb, then make sure the snake cannot get to it.

[Linds]

Ground dwelling snakes should be heated with bottom-heating methods. Overhead devices are not the best option for these animals, they are not basking lizards after all, as well as most of them dry out the air. The only times herps will be burned from a UTH is from people just slapping it on the way it comes and expecting it to stay at the proper temp. All heat sources should be controlled with a thermostat or rheostat. This eliminates any chance of a burn. UTH will reach dangerously high temperatures if they are not controlled with something, but there is no reason to use it in this manner anyways. Personally I do not see any advantage of heating snakes with lights.

Originally posted by Jazz6279
and they agree that UTH isn't their first choice of heating, well not for an adult or sub-adult python as there has been cases of heavy snakes burning their bellies (sat on the warm side for too long) despite it being hooked up to a thermostat.

That statement in itself makes absolutely no sense. I wouldn't believe much this person says. If you hook up a UTH to a thermostat and set it at 88 degrees, it will NOT exceed that, that's the whole point of a thermostat - to keep devices at a steady temperature.

Originally posted by Jazz6279
I dunno....maybe its an English thing?? What works for one doesn't work for another i guess, i'm just interested to hear if anyone else has heard of this or had any bad experiences with UTH?

Bottom-heat methods are preferred my many hobbyists and pretty well all big breeders of terrestrial snakes all over North America. People have tried and tested all methods over time and this seems to be the best method over all. Makes sense... thse animals aren't dirunal basking animals, they are nocturnal animals that find heat on rocks and whatnot that have been heated up during the daytime.

[Andy_G]

U.T.H. for terrestrial species, and weight has nothing to do with the snake getting burned or not(as Linds said). Lights dry out snakes.

[Yve]

i used to have both uth and a heat lamp(red) for my ball pythons....due to the fact that my house gets pretty cold in the winter and the uth just wasn't cutting it.....I did have to mist more often though and change bulbs quite frequently....I'm installing radiant heat panels in new enclosures now...it is more costly but in long run, will save money and maintenance...heat tape is another option that many people use successfully.

[jathoma]

where can I get a UTH with a dimmer attached? or is this something you have to do custom?the

[lilyskip]

the UTH's will catch on fire, but usually only if you don't properly ventilate underneath the tank or if you put it on carpet or something. Most heaters come with little balls to attach to the bottom of the tank to provide cross-ventilation...you have to read the manual and the safety instructions, but uth's should be totally safe when used properly. :D

[tHeGiNo]

Linds not saying that UTH are or are not the better way, but I do not think it is fair to say that because all breeders use UTH that makes it the better choice, for the snakes benefit that is. I'm sure you would agree that a good reason why breeders use them is because they are much cheaper to run, much cheaper to buy, they last much longer and take up less space.

[Jeff_Favelle]

I'm sure you would agree that a good reason why breeders use them is because they are much cheaper to run, much cheaper to buy, they last much longer and take up less space.


No. The reason we use them is because they WORK better and there is less of a chance to screw up (TWO PERFECT reasons for NEW people to use them also!). With the dollars involved with some of these morphs, if one method worked better over another method and produced just one more baby per year, believe me, ALL the breeders would switch.

Lights don't work as well with snakes. Period. This was hashed out like 20 years ago. I can't believe the discussion is still going on. It just proves the lack of education and lack of good literature out there. No one person's fault, but sad nonetheless.

[Invictus]

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
Lights don't work as well with snakes. Period. This was hashed out like 20 years ago. I can't believe the discussion is still going on.

It was hashed out 20 years ago? Where? Was there a meeting of herp owners held somewhere? Do you have a transcript of this meeting?

It just proves the lack of education and lack of good literature out there. No one person's fault, but sad nonetheless.

I think it proves that herpers are prone to bandwagon jumping. Ie, one respected breeder says lights do this and lights do that, even to the point of attempting to defy basic science because they theorize that something doesn't work. (Prime example: Lights dry out the air... riiiiiiiiight... I'm sure there are geologists, geophysicists, and meteorologists all over the world that would absolutely love to tear you apart for this theory. And by the way, I am a certified geological tech, so maybe it's possible that I know a thing or two about how environmental factors can affect temperature and humidity.)

So then along comes someone else who has another theory, and has PROVEN this theory. Well, since this herper's opinion is not the trendy, popular opinion, his opinion gets trashed by others who have never even tried it.

This is not unlike when Freud was the popular theorist for psychology. Along comes Willhelm Reich, whose theories were not only way different from Freud's, but way BETTER... and he was laughed out of the psychology community because others had already jumped on the Freud bandwagon.

Now I'm not for one second saying that a UTH isn't better - it most certainly is better. But how much better it is negligible at best.

So you want to talk about lack of education and literature? You're right. Pick up a book about how evaporation causes humidity. You'll see it has everything to do with temperature, and nothing to do with whether the heat is coming from above or below the water source. A cage that is heated to 90 degrees on one side with a UTH is just as dry as a cage that is heated to 90 degrees on one side with an overhead. PERIOD. An overhead shining down on a water source, however, will cause WONDERFUL amounts of evaporation and humidity, even right around the heat source itself.

Don't believe me? Stop jumping bandwagons and get some education and some literature, and see for yourself.

Just keep breeding those killer bottom-heated hondos Jeff. I'll keep using overheads to CREATE a humid environment for my herps. Neither of us has any dead or uncomfortable herps as a result of our choice of heating, do we?