Alligator Hunting..

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

Now, being a hunter and a reptile lover in the same sense I had mix feelings when my friend, Thom, sent me these pics he took at a local Festival. I post because want to see what everyones veiws on this is, especially from fellow hunters with the love of herps. Would you consider it as valid as deer/turkey hunting or would you consider it more along the line of rattlesnake hunts? Mind you, I am not a trap using hunter.. I do not sit and wait, I actualy stalk the animals I hunt, so there for I do not agree to some of the hunting methods gators are taken by ie. Snare and line.. Anywho, let me know youre thoughts.. http://www.herptrader.com/classifieds/viewthread.php?action=attachment&tid=5227&pid=11988
http://www.herptrader.com/classifieds/viewthread.php?action=attachment&tid=5227&pid=11989

[B-Rep]

Hunting is ridiculous...but that's a different story.

As for your claim to be a reptile lover, I would hope my friend, that any reptile lover wouldn't even consider killing Gators for food, let alone sport.

The pictures are sad, but I suppose it's a reality we have to deal with...Thanks for posting.

[Scales Zoo]

Sheila and I hunt deer, we don't shoot just the trophy's, and we do it primarily for food.

Aren't alligators cites appendix 1? It seems odd people would be able to hunt "endangered species".

Do they use them all as food and leather?

I saw a hunting show on T.V. that was hunting gators. They shot one in a dugout (it couldn't get away) and it made them feel more like a man. Reminded me of those people who shoot tigers in cages, so that they can have a trophy in their house, and feel more like a man.

My gut feeling is that I am against it, but I don't know much about it, so I can't really say right now.

My gut feeling is also that the gator hunt is primarily a trophy contest, and that a lot of gators just get wasted for "the fun of it".

Ryan

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

As for your claim to be a reptile lover, I would hope my friend, that any reptile lover wouldn't even consider killing Gators for food, let alone sport.



Never considered killing one, however I am an all around animal loving kind of guy.. Of all animals, and yes I do hunt. Hunting is an undescribable experience, if you are in it for the hunt and not for the "trophy". I eat what I kill, and if chance has it, I may consider doing a gator hunt.. I'm not a blind one-sided bigot and just because I like a species more than another does not mean I'll decriminate a species just because I keep alot of them on my land.. The hunt is a hunt no matter what animal and I enjoy the experience of the hunt and I feel you've never been hunting so how can you down it when you do not understand it? I'm going to guess you are a Vegitarian, just a guess - no insult..




Aren't alligators cites appendix 1? It seems odd people would be able to hunt "endangered species".



American alligators are CITES II which means that they are regulated and since hunting, legally for most animals is regulated it's a one in one shot.. And in Texas, Florida and most other places where they naturally occur they are considered game animals, they are quite more common than many people oppose.. Even here in Oklahoma, Alligators are threatened, where I get the priviledge to help regulate population counts and they are very far from what people think of the population, hell, most dont even realize we have gators naturally.. You cannot hunt here. The hunt only lasts for 20 days of September in Tx and I think all of the gator hunts in any legal hunting state.. I think..
As for the by products, they are used for everythin, the hide is sold for leather and the meat is sold for consumption so most of the animals aren't wasted, maybe just the entrails, which are eaten by other animals so it's regulated and clean..

I saw a hunting show on T.V. that was hunting gators. They shot one in a dugout (it couldn't get away) and it made them feel more like a man. Reminded me of those people who shoot tigers in cages, so that they can have a trophy in their house, and feel more like a man.

I agree, hunting does have the select few individuals that don't generally care for the hunt and only do it for bragging rights, but hopefully that'll die out.. Plus, permits to hunt are expensive so not many of us could do it for the trophy, I know I couldn't afford that sort of trophy, even if I had the gut for it..

My gut feeling is also that the gator hunt is primarily a trophy contest, and that a lot of gators just get wasted for "the fun of it".
I wouldn't quite agree because most gators are now averaging out at 6-8' so nothing fantastic there, plus the permits are expensive so I think that'll cut down on the red necks..

Xain

[Bartman]

i think its plain sick. There is absolutly no point at all to do this. I doubt alligator tastes good and even if it does eat something that gets raised purposly to eat not something thats trying to survive! Even if you wanted to hunt 1 or 2..or even 5! That picture with maybe 20 is disturbing. Thats way to many crocs to take out of an ecosystem at once!
just my 2 cents

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

I doubt alligator tastes good
To be quite honest, alligator is good eatin'
That picture with maybe 20 is disturbing.
That was a 5 man team and there were only 9 animals in the truck.

Thats way to many crocs to take out of an ecosystem at once!
[FONT=times new roman]
In order to understand and properly manage Texas's alligator population, TPWD Wildlife Division conducts extensive studies in coastal marshes on the number, character and harvest of alligators every year. This information helps TPWD determine trends in the population, assess alligator habitat and establish wise hunting limits for the species.

TPWD Wildlife Division staff monitors the Texas alligator population via aerial nest surveys and night time "spotlight" counts. For example, in 2001, TPWD Staff conducted 24 hours of helicopter surveys along coastal marshes documenting hundreds of alligator nests. In addition, staff conducts annual spotlight counts along 41 established lines covering 22 counties to supplement aerial survey estimates and provide population estimates in heavily vegetated areas.

Harvest recommendations for each season are determined by TPWD biologists using a 3-year average nest count, the percentage of adult alligators in a population, and a sustained yield harvest rate. Alligator season begins September 10th and ends September 30th. The number of alligators an individual landowner may harvest is based on the acreage and type of habitat owned.

Based on data acquired, TPWD allows egg collection, farming, and hunting activities for alligators by permit. Annual harvest records are kept, to document harvest size, sex, county of take and harvest date. This information is useful in finding trends in the species as well as hunter profiles. All aspects of the alligator program are carefully monitored, and the populations of the Texas alligators are steadily growing, as with all the natural occuring animals..
Xain
[FONT]

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

I doubt alligator tastes good
To be quite honest, alligator is good eatin'
That picture with maybe 20 is disturbing.
That was a 5 man team and there were only 9 animals in the truck.

Thats way to many crocs to take out of an ecosystem at once!



In order to understand and properly manage Texas's alligator population, TPWD Wildlife Division conducts extensive studies in coastal marshes on the number, character and harvest of alligators every year. This information helps TPWD determine trends in the population, assess alligator habitat and establish wise hunting limits for the species.

TPWD Wildlife Division staff monitors the Texas alligator population via aerial nest surveys and night time "spotlight" counts. For example, in 2001, TPWD Staff conducted 24 hours of helicopter surveys along coastal marshes documenting hundreds of alligator nests. In addition, staff conducts annual spotlight counts along 41 established lines covering 22 counties to supplement aerial survey estimates and provide population estimates in heavily vegetated areas.

Harvest recommendations for each season are determined by TPWD biologists using a 3-year average nest count, the percentage of adult alligators in a population, and a sustained yield harvest rate. Alligator season begins September 10th and ends September 30th. The number of alligators an individual landowner may harvest is based on the acreage and type of habitat owned.

Based on data acquired, TPWD allows egg collection, farming, and hunting activities for alligators by permit. Annual harvest records are kept, to document harvest size, sex, county of take and harvest date. This information is useful in finding trends in the species as well as hunter profiles. All aspects of the alligator program are carefully monitored, and the populations of the Texas alligators are steadily growing, such as by 1980, the Texas alligator population was at around 68,000 and increased to 140,000 by 1984 and to show ya the spiffiness of the population growth it's estimated that there are 286,000 alligators in Jefferson, Liberty and Orange counties alone, Ironically that's double the number of the statewide population in '84. However, there is no statewide population at this particular time so I can't give ya' that, and if you must check out my info, contact one of the biologists working with these animals at txgator.info@tpwd.state.tx.us
Xain

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

Aw yes, the lovely edit button.. Good job Xain

[jtpRUGGER]

Xain, you are a moron, and you know nothing about alligators. Haha...just kiddin. I agree with you on everything you said. When Thom sent me those pics, I was honestly disgusted. I even felt a little bad about the gator tails I have eaten. Furthermore, it made me question my own hunting habits. In spite of that, I think the "Gatorfest" in Texas is not such a bad thing. In no way do I think it compares to the Rattlesnake Roundups, such as the one in Sweetwater, TX. Alligator populations in texas are increasing. The hunts are strictly monitored. Believe me, as a Texas hunter I know what it takes to get a permit. The rattlesnake roundups arent really monitored (more so lately, fortunately, but not anywhere near enough to make a difference). Rattlesnakes are brought in from areas that are not supposed to be collected from. Rattlesnakes are gutloaded with sawdust based food products to increase weight for the shows. The snakes are butchered, and treated extremely poorly. In addition, the roundups have public displays of working with venomous reptiles that are sickening. I dont know if the gatorfest has contests to see who can fit the most live gators in a sleeping bag with them, but I doubt it does. Thats my two cents.

[Jeff_Favelle]

AS long as the animal is used and the meat is eaten and the animals aren't TORTURED (ala Rattlesnake roundups), then I can't complain. I mean, if you think this is bad, think how they catch fish. They snare them in the mouth with sharp objects, gaff them in the neck to get them in the boat, and then let them suffocate OUT OF WATER until they die. And I'm sure 90% of you all eat fish or have at one time or another. A bullet to an alligator's head is a death that's 10,000x more humane.

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

Lol, Josh, I was sick to my stomach as well, luckily I like to think to myself..I bet you I can fit 3 gators in my sleeping bag!
Jeff, very well put, I can't even think of something to disagree with you on this one, and this analogy is just spiffy..
Xain

[Mike177]

i have never been a fan of hunting, probably never will, but i have nothing against hunting in general, i think if u want to go out and kill an animal (except engaged species) thats your business and u shouldn't be looked down on because of it, the only beef (no pun intended) i have with hutting is when people go out and kill what ever they can, how ever they can, what ever they can. i have a Friend who hunts, and i don't condone most of the hunting he dose, because he is very wastefully in what he hunts, at one time to was driving down a dirt road at his ranch, saw a rabbit, shot it with a 12 gage, took a machete and chopped its foot off and said he was going to leave it for the buzzards. thats the kinda **** i don't like. also i don't agree with killing in massive #s. i will say this, i don't now and never will condone hunting of reptiles, but that is a purely buyest point of view, just like i would think someone who loved dogs would not support people shooting them for food.

just my $00.02, oh and thanx for sharing Xian

[Jeff_Favelle]

Thanks man. I don't like to see anything suffer, but if the animal is used and killed humanely, then I see no problem with it. Those alligators probably died 1000x more humanely than 90% of the herps in CAPTIVITY in the hands of stupid keepers. No kidding.

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

I agree, I know several people like that and though they exist, I for some reason blame television, books and critics for why most people think that most hunters are wicked and think that killing an animal is just evil in the ways.. However, these same people eat meat, and the ones that are vegitarians are just blind or refuse to realize that thousands of animals are killed each year just so they can have there Healthy and Conscious free meal, sad how wrong they are, yet they are so willing to down us.. A friend and fellow hunter once told me, " I didn't climb to the top of the foodchain to become a vegitarian." Heh, and neither did I. Xain

[V.hb]

I have to agree with you Jeff on that.. If the animal is killed humanely, and everything is used (meat, skin bones whatever) then it should be fair game really. It isnt as if alligators are an endangered species. However, I do understand Xain's point of view on this as well, being that he has been exposed to these animals for a good portion of his life, and he knows and respects them. Alot of these animals IMO are killed in a very disrespectful manner.. These arent fish here, they're massive incredible animals. It's really too bad not many people see them for what they are.

[B-Rep]

Ahah, Xain you are right, I am a vegitarian...

I am going to go out on a limb here, and be the only one to say...

I am a TRUE animal lover, and as such, I don't take any pride or enjoyment out of putting a bullett through the head of one of Natures gorgeous creations. I personally cannot look into the eyes of a dying/dead creature knowing that I did this to them...I just love animals too much.

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

Most Vegitarians are easy to pick out by their choice of wordings, even if not seen. No disrespect.
However, I am a TRUE animal lover as well and I love what they present as well. To be quite honest, do you think it's fair to proclaim that when you are a part of an animal's dismissle as well and if you dont do it up front and close such as hunting, you ae deffinatly killing them slowly.
Like persay, do you drive or ride in a gas powered vehicle?
Bathe? Use pesticides? Live in a home? Buy store bought produce? Wear leather or use it for any sort? Drive on roads? Have wooden anything? and so on.. All of these are in fact animal killers even if it is a long term effect, however, wouldn't it be better if the animals were killed in a fast action, even if it is a bullet rather than a slow progessive death, like say loss of habitat (Homes, wooden products, farm products, electricity in most cases) or pollution such as sewage (bath water, any contaminated water) or just owning part of the animal such as leather? We are killing the animal fast and for a reason. Just because I choose to kill an eat an animal doesn't make me any less of an animal lover than you. I love the animals for the creatures, I love what they present, I love how they taste, I love everything about them generally.. One must live for another to die, Plant or animal. I choose to eat what I favor, and plants arent my bag, Id die if I was stuck on plant material. You choose to do what you do, thats cool, no disrespect or harm, I will do what I want to do, but claiming me or any others who promote hunting any less animal lovers than you just because we hunt and first hand kill our meals is a bt sad. Most of us love all the aspects of animals, even the taste of some..
Xain

[Locolobo]

I have to chime in on this one. I am an avid Hunter and have been for many years. I don't discriminate though, I will kill a doe just as fast as I would a buck. Of course I have the proper permits and such. Horns and antlers are pretty, but they taste like crap. I am a true believer in don't kill it if you aren't going to eat it.

B-Rep, I have a few questions for you . What type of food do you feed that caimen of yours? Are you killing it or does someone else do your killing for you? What other herps do you feed prey animals to? How does this make you the only TRUE animal lover?
Dude, get off your high horse!

[ohh_kristina]

this makes me sick. that's all i will say. :(

[B-Rep]

Xain, I will never be in favour of hunting, as long as I live. But I really never took the time to look at it the way you see it...All past posts aside when I say that you too, love animals as much as I. I just do what I can to slow down the amount of animals killed, wether it be saving water or riding a bike...Or eating vegitables. Hahaha.

Locolobo,

You too present a good point, one can still be a hunter and be an animal lover I suppose. I guess I just don't have what it takes to kill an animal through my own power.

My caimen is a vegitarian as well;) I breed my own rats and feed F/T...and yes, someone else does do the killing for me. It's sad everytime but I guess that's life.


Thanks for all of your postings!

[Locolobo]

B-rep,
Hunting and killing is not for everyone. It's good that some have a tender heart. I for one felt bad the first time I did it, but I realize that it is a part of the natural order of things. I am mainly a carnivor and find a special bond with the animal that I harvest myself. I happen to have the highest love and respect for all Gods creatures however big or small. With the exception of parasites, but that's another story. The animals that I hunt are prey animals. These creatures numbers are controled by predators. The problem is that humans through uncontrolled hunting(turn of the century), habitat loss amoung other things have decreased the predator numbers drastically. We have unbalanced the natural order of things. Through hunting I am sparing these creatures the painful death of disease or starvation due to overpopulation. Personally I am a very ethical hunter. I don't every cause an animal unnecessary suffering or use unfair advantages like baiting. It's all about skill. Please folks don't condem all of us Hunters because of a few drunken rednecks.
Regards,
Bob

[Steele]

that makes me want to barf

[snakehunter]

i dont have a problem with it as long as it is done:

as humanly as possible

to help keep the population in check

and it has a porpuse, like food (for humans)

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

Loco, I agree completly. I must also add that I do occassionally use the sit and wait technique when I'm not in the mod to walk around and stalk an animal, and I see nothing wrong with this because if you look out in the animal world, most of the hunters are ambush hunters, so I see nothing wrong with sit and wait techniques. I do however dispise, traps, snares and anything else that generally dosent cause first hand hunting.. Xain

[B-Rep]

Unfair advantages are a part of hunting, if you are a hunter, chances are you use unfair advantages in your favour. Go out into nature with nothing but the clothes on your back...Fashion yourself a weapon out of wood, and catch and kill a deer that way...Now that's hunting!

( If you want the FULL experience/Genuine Hunt )

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

I see your point, but lets look at it like this..

Hunters use Camouflage to help blend in to the surroundings, sure not necessarily fair.. But lets look at crocodilias in general, a floating alligator is generally discribed as a floating log, there's a deception. Crocodilians can be undetected in very shallow waters and this is because of the pattern and scaleation of the animal, another deception. A crocodilian is an apex predator because of it's ability to hunt and his ability to hunt has alot to do with his camouflage. As with any hunter, they are very well diquised to fit in around the prey livings, Praying mantis, Snakes of all kinds, spiders, ect, ect.. All of these animals have the ability to kill with specified techniques and weapons, Crocodilians have their teeth and power, Spiders have their venom and webs, snakes have their speed and Constriction and/or Venom, We humans; We have our Unlimited thoughts and the ability to build the weapons we need to survive, everyone may seem to think that is unfair, but it is a cause of Nature at it's work. Everyone thinks we are generally powerless without our weopons, and true we are but so are everythng else. We all have our specified needs and our abilities to do what we need to survive and we just so happen to have to use our heads, just because we are not equipped with claws, large fangs, venom and the power does not mean we are ay less hunters than the next animal. We all use weapons, human and animal alike and we all have camouflage, even if we have to diquise ourselves, but so do many other animals, turtles, and some crabs are a select few. Our ability to survive is what we have at use, and we just so happen to be able to do the described above..

Also, I mention traps in an earlier post,about me not agreeing with them, but I agree with natural ways and most spiders happen to use traps. Well, ever been snared or stuck in a bear trap? Being caught in a web doesnt hurt.. Just thought I hould clarify that..
Xain

[B-Rep]

I definetly don't condone the use of inhumane traps...

It just seems like any half-*** hunter with a rifle and a gun license can go out and kill a gorgeous creature. Now, you don't seem to be one those now, but at first I thought I had you pegged as one. As long as you truly respect and admire what you take from nature, you won't hear complaints from me.

Thanks for the posting.

[Locolobo]

B-rep,
That's not what I meant by"unfair advantages". I was reffering to Baiting, using Dogs, riding around on fourwheelers, things like that. I use camoflage and various weapons in the field. Believe me the deer and turkey are not easy to get to with what I use. I am in their element and they by far surpass my skills there. They are very wiley. Compared to them I am clumsey, loud and smelly. There are many days iI come home empty.
As far as food I don't waste much! I feed the neighbors dog the bones I don't eat. I leave the entrails to the foxes. I hate waste.

Back to the original subject, The Gator hunt. I don't really care for it. But I don't know much about it. Are these guys hunting on the ground or in boats? Day or night? Are they a bunch of drunk rednecks or actual ethical Hunters? I don't think I want to do it. The only reason I spoke up here is because Hunters were being clumped together and condemmed.

We Hunters are as different as Pet lovers and PETA Fanatics!
Good weekend to all,
Bob

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

I feed the neighbors dog the bones I don't eat.

What kind of bones do you eat? heh

For the record, most of us hunters come home empty handed.

[JD@reptiles]

I do not agree on wild hunting of any animal unless the animal is causing problems on the environment. But I think it’s stupid when people go out and kill reptiles. I understand a few crocs and alligators killed here and there because they are a threat to man, or they ate someone’s dog. BUT even than, it’s the humans that moved into the animals habitat. With all the farm raised food, there is no reason for wild hunting unless the animal is really having bad effects on the environment or there few or no food farms in the country the animals are being hunted. That’s just what I think.

Jordan

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

With all the farm raised food, there is no reason for wild hunting

Maybe, but is it not true that you eat what you like? Deer is far healtier than most production type animals, you get the experience of catching your own food, you're validating the food chain, you are contributing to wildlife conservation, plus you are eating what you like. I'd eat a deer over a cow or any type of pigs anyday. Plus the crocs love wild boar..
Xain

[Yve]

although I don't think I could do it myself....I have a hard time hooking a minnow when fishing and I definately am not the one killing the fish caught!....I am not against hunting but I do have some stipulations...humane killing, only hunting animals in season & the allowed amount, for food NOT for trophy(that sickens me).
It doesn't make sense that people think farmed animals is a better option to hunted. Do they think that farmed animals are treated more humanely than hunted ones? Hah!
A friend of mine grew up on a reservation in Northern Ontario and hunting is one way of providing for the family. She has respect for the animals she eats and the parts not eaten are used for other things. As for the taste....I think game meat tastes much better than farmed beef, pork or poultry. Deer is delish, caribou is mouth watering, rabbit makes for good stew, and alligator is pretty tasty too!

[Sunrunner]

Here an interesting point why is it humans can hunt generally uncondoned (by the way I agree with proper hunting and would love to try it some day) but when an animal kills a human the media explodes and this animal suddenly finds itself the victim of the proverbial "witch hunt" take for example the safari in the congo who set out to capture anacondas and whe an anaconda snatched one of the children (why children were present i still do not understand) suddenly condas were satan incarnate and mass exterminated. Another example several years back when that cougar snatched a kid from a school yard, if not for the interference of B.C. rangers there probably wouldn't be any cougars out west anymore. I could name a hundred more instances. Why the double standard? Also as far as popluation control goes maybe we got it backwards maybe the animals (gators, rattlers, etc) are trying to control our population...i'll leave that one for the philosophy class. If humans were taken out of the picture animals were work together in perfect synergy. Anyway humane killing of animals is admirable but have you ever seen animals kill each other...friggin brutal! Just food for thought. By the way snake is the worst tasting food in the world before becoming a herp owner I tried some at Mardi Gras, maybe it was all in my head (venom thoughts) but it was sick. Wild hunting was once the only way it was done if anything is unnatural it's mass production, ever been to a chicken barn or a beef ranch...sick ****.

[KrokadilyanGuy3]

but when an animal kills a human the media explodes and this animal suddenly finds itself the victim of the proverbial "witch hunt"

Because everyone thinks that humans are the superior species and doesn't deserve to be eaten? That question has wondered me for as long as I can remember, and this was the only answer ever given me..

are trying to control our population

I like the way you think..

Anyway humane killing of animals is admirable but have you ever seen animals kill each other

I remember seeing two adult male baboons batting up on a female for no reason and then leaving her corpse after they were done.. It was also stated that the female was not a new comer so the reason of this act has me wondered..

Snake does suck and I also hate frog legs.. Xain