Why you should NEVER Buy another Cd!!

[Bryce Masuk]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=501&u=/ap/20030909/ap_on_en_mu/downloading_music_11&printer=1

The RiAa Has Decided To Go After 12 year olds With there Bigshot Lawer's Because They Sent the music industry Down the tube What Bs I Am completely boycotting them I Am not buying another Cd Till this crap stops

[Aaron_S]

Wow,attacking 12 year olds. Nothing like taking the easy way.

[Snip3r]

Like taking MP3s from a preteen<~~Their slogan

[Bryce Masuk]

There slogan should Be "We sued your little sister and were going after your grandma"

[LurkerAccount]

Buahahahhaha!!!!
Thats great, stupid little pirat girl.....
No, I've never bought a CD in my life anyway.....

[Mike177]

omg, maby if the CD companys would lower the pices of cd they would sell more! hell i have to work 3 hours to buy a cd, and i dont fell like working a full day just to buy 2 cds, bet hey what are u going to do,

[Shane Tesser]

High prices of cd's, and long gone are the days when a whole album was good....its a rarity now that you like more then a couple songs. Concert tickets are way up...even the shirts you buy at the concerts are crazy now! Its no longer about the fans, or the music for most bands. Its about getting rich...and the record companies are the worse ones! Its no wonder ppl pirate!

[Aaron_S]

Shane here is right...prices steadily rose and it has been ridiculous. I heard of a concert that the tickets were 400 a piece. That is just messed up.

[Siretsap]

The altearnative of being able to buy the songs you want online, would be good. But unless these companies stop seeing only $$$ instead of quality product, we will always have bad expensive cd'S

[Bryce Masuk]

I still wouldnt Buy them online I dont Support those who I dont respect and I never will. The Music industry right now is Dieing and its Great! Maybe they will go Back to What they used to do 3 album Plans instead of these sad 1 hit wonders When Istead of letting the bands Talent develop they just Record a Album Fix it on pro tools Slam the video on mtv and rake in the cash and repeat this over and over They make more money that way. Rather then investing time to make good music.

[Bryce Masuk]

I forgot to add this Prices of cd's are dropping to 15 bucks For new artists and 9.99 for old albums or at least in b.c. they are

[Tim and Julie B]

Hey guys. I am a big Kazaa user. I was sharing about 700 files as of yesterday. I got a message from the Canadian something or other warning me about how it was illegal and that I should not be sharing music. Blah blah blah. Just wanted to share that it is going to happen in Canada so make sure you copy all your recording out of your folders in your Docs. They are only going after big users so I am keeping mine to 50. Just gonna rotate them. Friggin Nazi's haha. How about all the unreleased stuff or the music that doesn't make it to Canada. I tryed to bring one in and HMV told me it would cost me $37 F'n dollars. To what ship it over the friggin boarder. They charge your ten extra on "imports".
I can phone up a store in Seattle and FED EX it up for cheaper and they want to tell the industry is so friggin hard up. It's the industry that cause this underground movement in the first place. Limp Biskit said it best "you just spent fifteen over your hard earned dollars on a shiny peice of plastic." Lower prices and then talk to me about what is fare. Cuz I would love to support the artists but lets face it they are not the ones that make the majority of the money of each hunk of "shiny plastic". So don't go hiding behind that starving artists BS. All the record company exects care about is get their new boat for the year! They sure as hell aren't going to pass a buck! And thats my rant! :mad TB

[Wuntu Menny]

And as a contributing member of the recording industry, I'd like to thank you all for taking food from my belly, money from my pocket, and chart positions from my recordings. As convenient and cheap as it is to download MP3's, you are circumventing the mechanisms in place to ensure the artists get paid for their work.

Yes, the recording companies are taking the lion's share, but we need the % due to us as well. We're not all driving Maseratis, smokin Cubanos, and boffing porn stars. Do what you have to, but remember that you're not just cutting out the big dogs by sharing files.

Maybe if my residuals check arrives this week, I'll be able to keep my internet connection and still be posting here next week...

WM

[Tim and Julie B]

Alright Wuntu Menny. You made a good point of it not just being about the big guys but god damn am I tierd of getting shafted on CD's. Plus when I down load I download things I have never heard. I would have never even heard of the Vines or knew the Ramones ( although I have heard a lot of their music). It is still a good way to branch out and listen to more music. TB

Up for a Guinness in Calgary?

[BoAddict]

i dont see the big deal in this , as my friend who is in the biz said if your making millions of $$$$ who cares about people dl'ing
if your a new artist then hey its a great way to get heard
now i for 1 wont buy something that i have heard 1 song on the radio that i like, i will dl more of there stuff and if i like it then i will go out and buy the cd.

my other point is the artists dont make the majority of the money on album sales they make there money doing the tour and all the merchandise

i again have to say since dl'ing my music i have ended up buying stuff that there is no way in hell id have even given a chance to b4

just my $0.02

[Wuntu Menny]

If you are a new artist, the best way to be heard is on tour or airplay. You make squat from touring and merchandise, you're lucky if you can pay for the gas to get to the next gig. You pay for the gas by selling copies of you CD at the show. You went into hock to cover the printing fees for your cool new tshirts, so your margins are zero on the resale.


Now you've got the tracks you never would have purchased, you share them with others that would have; now the starving artist is out another box of KD. Oh well, as artists we're supposed to gain inspiration from adversity aren't we? So keep up the good work!

T & J: I hear what you're saying and I agree in part. I also believe that you see my point. I download too...samples off the artist's websites to decide if I want to purchase the album.
Yeah, I'm up for a Guinness but I have a monster show to attend on Sat eve as well. I hope we can shoehorn some quality time in.

BoAddict: Ya gotta stop listenin to friends in the biz, man. Apparently they aren't the people on the other end of this stick and fail to see the big pitcher. The dudes in the middle don't give a damn, they still get paid no matter what. Yer take on the cashflow in the biz is seriously distorted too, man. Walk the proverbial mile before taking a stand like that.

If you didn't respect the artist enough to buy their work,
why steal it? That's like stealing food when you're not hungry...

WM

[Bryce Masuk]

Its not stealing from One point of view If people that NEVER would have bought your album Download your music Does it hurt you? No it Doesnt However If They would have bought your album it does. Its not like someone ripped off your car your out nothing and if your Stuff is good it will spread Like the plague And album sales will go up.

I will Not support These P.O.S. Mofo's At the top who want to sue Every 12 year old girl In the world The only thing they deserve Is a kick in the Damn head

[Aaron_S]

to take a line from Bryce our new Slogan..., "Hit a music Executive in the head with a hammer"

[Tim_Cranwill]

Ok, here's my rant... and it will be a good one.... ;)

I am a 25 year old singer/songwriter/musician who has a development deal with Warner Bros. in the US. Being a "rock star" has always been my dream... well not to be a "rock star" necessarily, but to make a living doing what I love; making music.

To the average “Joe”, downloading music is not a big deal. Heck, I've downloaded my share of music over the last few years. Copying your buddy's entire cd collection ain't too shabby either. Saves you a ton of cash and you get a whack load of cd's for next to nothing. That does sound like a great deal. But it's still stealing. Even if record companies are multi-billion dollar industries that charge too much for a cd, they still own that product. Just because Walmart makes a load of cash, is it cool to steal all of the Lord Of The Rings dolls that will fit in your pocket? Nope. Why? Because they own them and not you. Taking what's not yours IS stealing.

People have the attitude that hurting the record companies will somehow benefit them. How is that? Do you not enjoy music? Do you want all of the record companies to go broke so that we're stuck listening to $hitty local bands 24/7? And trust me, there are a lot more $hitty ones than good ones.

Sure the "biz" and it's higher ups make a lot of money. They make that money because they are capable of doing a very specialized job; recognizing and marketing talent. Not as easy as it sounds. Yes there are a bunch of "talentless" artists who get more than their share of fame and money but they DO earn that money. There IS a market for that music even if it's not your thing. There are also hundreds of talented artists who count on album sales to earn them their money. Even if they DO earn a lot of money… it’s THEIR money! Does someone tell you, “Earning $12/hour is more than you need to survive. I’m going to steal from the company you work for!”? I doubt it.

Most people don't know that it costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to make a record. Warner Bros’ budget to record 3 demos for me is $18'000 USD... for 3 songs!!! And they are JUST demos!!! To hire a good producer can cost almost a million dollars, Add to that studio time, musicians, mastering and etc. The list of expenses goes on and on and before you know it, a record costs over a million dollars to make and a lot more to market. That's money that has to be made back. That's what being a business is about.

Now, I’m not sure if this is public knowledge or not but two major record labels (there are only 5 major labels) are about to merge. Money making scheme? Not at all. They are merging because album sales are down... really down. Will this mean music will get back to its roots? Not even close. It will mean even further commercialization of music. More cookie cutter crap filling the airways because record companies will be forced to record and produce whatever is the trend at the time. Real artists will suffer and be cut out of the loop because they will be too much of a risk for the record labels to take.

So what do I think needs to be done? Not a clue. But vowing to “never buy a cd again” helps nobody…especially not the artist. One thing is true. Downloading music is a fact and it’s not going to go away anytime soon. Record companies will just have to find a way to regulate it. I would expect to see the price of CDRs go up. I would expect to see record companies trying new things to attract people to buy cd’s like lowering prices. I would expect the “Free sharing” of music as we know it to stop. I bet we’ll see a lot things change over the next little while. That’s what technology brings; change. But the fall of major labels would not be a good thing.

That’s my rant… for now. It may not be well thought out but I guess that’s ok because it was a rant. :)Now go out and support your favorite artists! Then go feed your herps!

[Colonel SB]

If I have the money I like to buy the album, get the cover art and all that shyte :) but I am guilty of burning a ferw CD's here and there.

[marisa]

Frankly I believe you two involved with music are correct, but I do not believe it's right to prosecute a 12 year old girl for doing something that MILLIONS of people do, will continue to do and are doing right this second. Its ludacris. No one likes record companies now, no one wants to pay 25 for a CD with one good song on it.

It's time for music to go back to the good old days, when real bands were made from OUTSTANDING live pre-formances that people PAID to get in to no problem and wanted to see again and again, wicked tunes and lots of airplay. Not a 25 dollar CD with crappy tunes on half.

Marisa

[unknownclown]

Personally I dont buy CDs I got sick of payin out the arse for them just to find out they suck then have them sprout legs and follow my friends out the door while my back was turned. To be honest I dont think Ive boughten a CD since "97". I dont listen to music much since Im concerned with what my daughter listens to and being 3 she'll repeat it. Ive tried to change the music I like for her benefit but hell it aint working. So buying or burning CDs realy dont affect me. I did recently download a movie just to see how long it would take with DSL but I had already boughten the movie.
As far as burning and downloading I realy dont get how it can hurt business. I mean people have been doing it for YEARS. Im 33 and I can remember when there werent any CDs or internet. What did we do? We copied off other peoples tapes or records and instead of the internet we would take it off of the radio. Maybe its not as massive as the internet, but then if anyone who was from that time looked back they would have to admit that most people did it alot! Personally I dont see a difference aside from now its more "high tech" and openly done.

Maybe if the recording studios and people invested in companies that produce CD burners or blank CDs or develop a site that charges some sort of membership fee heck I dont know.

[Lisa]

I stopped buying music a while ago, I don't download it anymore either as since Napster went down i've found the sharing programs to be riddled with spyware, adware and often viruses.

Now I only download the songs artists have on their websites or on sites that pay artists a fee for every download.

[OttawaChris]

I have a lot of trouble feeling any remorse for screwing someone who has been screwing me for years. Had the CDs been coming out at reasonable prices I would have still been buying them... but the fact of the matter is that they are grossly expensive (if its not a brand new CD you usually have to shell out 30 bucks for it)

The last CD I bought was St. Anger from Metallica... it was 17 bucks after taxes AND came with a DVD of all the songs too. This was, in my opinion, worth spending my hard earned money for and was a very reasonable price therefore I bought it.

No offense to you Wun... but starving bands aren't the ones being hit by music downloads. People have to know your band to search you out... a travelling bar band isnt going to be a hot download and most people aren't even going to bother ripping any of your songs to MP3 format unless they want to send a song to a friend to show you off... in that case you should be grateful for the publicity.

Universal music made what I think is a smart move... they are lowering the prices on their albums so that people come back to buying. Most people wont make a stink over paying 15 bucks for a full CD.

Also, making a comeback is the CD single. 3 or 4 bucks gets you the song you want (and in many cases the only good song on an album anyway)

I have other ideas for the music companies to make music more pallatable for us as well... but thats for me to take up with them ;)

[BoAddict]

Wuntu Menny


my friend in the biz was a bass player in a band that toured across canada with bif naked and on another occasion toured across canada with wide mouth mason, they also opened for crash test dummy's who opened for alanis morrisette @ the corel center

i bought there cd but when doing a search for it i saw it on napster too

[Tim_Cranwill]

Chris, how is selling their products at market value "screwing you over"? If you think cd's are expansive, when's the last time you went shopping for a pair of jeans?!?!? There are products out there that are WAY more over priced than cd's...

Here's a challenge for all of you out there....

- Go find a talented local band... it will be tough to do.
- Pay for the recording, mixing and mastering of their cd.
- Pay for the manufacturing of that cd.
- Now go out and try to make a buck selling those cd's and putting on concerts.

If even ONE of you can make ANY money doing that, I will be VERY impressed.

It cost me and my band $11'000 to make our first cd (which pales in comparison to what "real" cd's cost to make). We got 1'000 copies made. Now, you tell me how much we would need to charge for our cd's to even break even. With labels, there are hundreds of people working on the project who all need a pay cheque.

Now, $30 is pretty steep for an album, but $80 is just plain stupid for a friggin' pair of jeans and I don't hear anybody slimming' Calvin Klein or J-Lo.

I guess I don't really know where I am going with this but maybe it's this; It's a big risk for a record company to put out an album. Sometimes it pays off like with the first album from "Hootie and the Blow Fish", then other times it doesn't... like with "Hootie's" second album. :)

Anyway, there are some things to think about... End of rant #2.

[marisa]

Yes but you can wear a pair of jeans for years, a CD nowadays has ONE good song on it.

You say you need the CD money, then why is it that the artist gets so little of it in reality?

Marisa

[Brock]

Just one thing before I start, Cranwill, market value is the value that people at the market are willing to pay for it. And according to this thread, they are few and far between, or completely non-existent alltogether.

Okay, first of all I want to say that I prefer punk music over all this rap crap and pop sh*t, I think music is reflective of the individual listenening to it. I also want to say that my buddies who go down to Vancouver and stop in a Punk specialty store spend at least 200$ per visit either on CD's or clothes. Why? Because punk isn't as controversial as the stars of the show, rap and pop, and most of them do what they do for the fans, they are happy earning an average annual salary that a janitor would make, as long as it's enough to live. There are no specialty punk stores near me. Result? I have had over 15,000 songs over the course of 5 years from filesharing, and I haven't spent a cent on a 'market value' CD in all of that time. Someone said that before filesharing was around, people taped things from their buddy's tapes/CDs on a stereo. This is true. I remember being 6 or 7 and taping a Dance Mix '9(something) on my neighbours stereo, and I did this quite often.
Let's face it, people are cheap, they have always been cheap, and always will be cheap (edit to say 'look for the best value'). Someone said that it takes a few hours of work to buy one CD, that's how I look at it too. People have to work for their money too, not just these pop icons like that damn guy Justin Timberlake, and when they associate themselves with a record company that is going to charge 35$ per CD, common sense should tell him 'Wow, I'm going to be in the gutter before you know it!'.
Pop=short for Popularity Contest. It's all a big show and they are trying to scam us. And let's be realistic, rap has no energy whatsoever and most of it gives off bad vibes through its lyrics, IMO it's just a fancy way of saying bad poetry.
The quality stuff is where people have REAL attitudes, REAL jobs, REAL music and REALISTIC values/views on their profession. Take Jack Black for example, now there is a charismatic guy who I would gladly pay 10-15$ on a CD on, he's just so damn cool. Britney Spears? Not happening. I went to a Goldfinger show (punk band) this summer and they were protesting the meat trade, they had videos at the back where you could watch calfs and cows being slaughtered while still alive, boiled alive, slit open alive, bled to death and mamed while still alive. Would you see that at a Britney Spears show? No, and that's why I respect punk, because they don't care if they offend people, they are individuals, not mass marketed copies of an idealistic Barbie.
We had an exchange student from Brazil last year, he didn't have filesharing and he had no knowledge of it after he got here. Before he knew what filesharing was, though, he spent about 700$ on CDs that he thought were so cool. And he ended up only liking only 10 songs on all of them. Filesharing allows you to benefit from the music without hurting the bulge in your back pocket. 700$ is a lot of money for something you can get for free, and I believe that is why most people fileshare, at least that's why I do, do you know how many reptiles you can buy with that money? Exactly, it can be better spent on something worth your while than something manufactured to be good, but is only a major let down when you realize how the songs are sh*tty. My sister spent 75$ on two CDs for her friend's birthday, I asked her why she would spend so much money on these CDs, she replied 'Because [artists] have 3 really good songs my friend likes.'

I could have bought 3 geckos with that money.


-Brock

[reverendsterlin]

I don't really buy music any more, I believe most artists and actors are not paid for their skill but for their advertising value. Some no talent someone that can draw in large crowds will be held above someone that has true skill and talent but doesn't draw large crowds. I don't care how many home runs you can hit, how loud you can sing, how fast you can carry a football, or how much special effects was in your last movie, no-one is worth multi-million paychecks. It's all about how much advertising value you have for the big boys.

[V.hb]

Just so you know.. On KaZaa you can also set yourself not to share any files........That is if you don't want to deal with any problems due to it..

[Tim_Cranwill]

Brock, Brock, Brock... you just gave the perfect example of why the industry HAS to change. You're right, nobody wants to pay $30 for a cd they can copy off their buddy. That's human nature. Not many of us have loads of cash to spare but if you have the money to buy the album, or even single if you only like that one song, buy it. Support your favorite artists. Myself, if there's only one song I like on an album, I would download it... BUT... if it is an album by one of my favorite bands, I buy it. But that's just me.

Marisa, here's a quick record biz lesson for ya...

There are a few ways artists and record companies make their money.

1.) Publishing royalties: That is co-owned by the songwriter(s) and the publishing company (usually the record company). It's a little more complicated than that but you get the point.

2.) Mechanical royalties: Record sales. Split between the artists who made the album and the record company.

3.) Live shows: That one's obvious.

4.) Other promotions and merchandise.

So the artists make most of their money from the publishing royalties and live shows and the record companies make most of theirs from the mechanical and the live shows. Like I said, it's much more complex than that but there's just a quick break down.

And "Pop" stands for "Popular Music". :) And they're not trying to scam you. They are just trying to entertain you...

[OttawaChris]

Brock beat me to it... market value is what people will pay for a product. I had a broken down 97 cavalier that I thought was worth 400 bucks for parts... nobody would pay it so I ended up parting with it for 50 bucks and a free tow... are you seeing where I am going with this?

Let me ask you something... why are music execs and workers immune to downsizing and cutbacks? I work in the high-tech industry and I had to take a 10% pay cut and see half of the company I work in get laid off because the market could not support the prices being charged. Is the music industry too high and mighty to be worthy of the same fate? If their prices are too high then they need to come down period. This may mean job cuts or an unlikley alternative **gasp** not as many millions in their pockets.

I NEVER have and NEVER will pay 80 bucks for a pair of jeans... I go to Old Navy and buy a pair for 30 bucks and I get a good long wear out of them and they are comfy. Are you trying to tell me that you wouldnt take a pair of free Levis if someone was giving them to you in exchange for a pair of Walmart specials? See where I am going with this?

Lastly I want to make one more point I overlooked in my first post... I support a band by going to see them live. This is where they make the bulk of their money and it is where I get to see a good performance (hopefully). I dont mind paying 50 bucks to see a good band but I sure as hell will not pay that much for the CD!! This way I also get to put the screws to bands that skip over Ottawa.... so many great acts play Toronto then drive right past Ottawa to go play in Montreal... well screw you I wont buy your CD or go see you in concert... kazaa to the rescue :D

[Tim_Cranwill]

Oh, and Marisa, $80 for a pair of jeans that you will wear until the style changes in 6 months... Or $30 for an album that you might enjoy for years to come....

Don't buy one hit wonders....

[Tim_Cranwill]

Actually Chris, money earned form live shows pays BOTH artist and exec.... trust me.

[Tim_Cranwill]

Oh yeah, market value WAS $30 for a new cd... before Napster anyway... Now that price has to change. I think we all see that.

[Colonel SB]

I personally don't think $15 bucks for a CD is all that expensive.

[eyespy]

Market price? No such thing, not in the US, anyhow.....

http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2002-09-30-cd-settlement_x.htm

[reverendsterlin]

I really doubt most music downloaded is a small starving artist's music. and a small artist whose music is downloaded enough to be popular will probably get radio airtime as a result. Most times I suspect it is less the artist complaining than it is the whines of all the middle-men that lose their cut.

[Tim_Cranwill]

Well they are still entitled to their income, are they not? Besides, the portion of the "industry" who gets the biggest return on investment is probably the retailer. HMV's cut of a $30 disc is probably between $10 and $15.

Anyway, anyone want to talk herps? :D

[marisa]

Well talk about it all day if you want it doesn't change the fact that it won't change. Period.

I don't need a music lesson. My father was in a popular Los Angeles punk band for 15 years. Trust me I know all about it, and funny enough, he LOVES file sharing. He as a singer has a TOTALLY different outlook than you do on it. But that's what makes the world go round. Different opinions.

Marisa

[red bootz]

If only musicians were in it for the love of music and not the pay off...

[Tim_Cranwill]

Man... that's the dumbest thing I've heard all day. No offence but what gives you that idea? If you could make a living doing what you love, would you? Or would you say "No thinks, I'm only in it for the love." BS! Sorry man.

[Snakecharm]

This amuses me and concerns me at the same time. I really have very little to do with American music anymore. Take a trip through my harddrive and you will find that the vast majority of the mp3s are in Japanese. This is music that is difficult if not impossible to find for sale in this country, and is certainly not licensed by RIAA members.

That said, I actually do buy quite a few CDs from overseas, mostly used, some new. But I utilize the file sharing networks for one major reason, there really *is* no other good way to obtain the music I enjoy. Do I have any licensed mp3s on my computer? Sure, a few. THe only CD I've bought in the last year was Fallen by Evanescence, and I ripped it for my own enjoyment and the purpose of mixing my own playlists. I also have a number of mp3s from their EPs which are not, to my knowledge, available for sale. There are, in addition, an odd assortment of other things, but a lot of *those* are obscure metal bands that don't have American licenses, either.

That is not to say, however, that would stop me. Especially now. I think the RIAA's attitude of flogging the consumer for failing to respond to their marketing blitz is rather laughable. While it's true that the situation is unique in that their product is obtainable from other sources, it would be ridiculous for any other industry to sue their customers for lack of interest in buying their product. For most, it would be an indication that the business model needs to change.

I do sympathize with the artists, of which we have several among us, but the fact of the matter is that you are in a very flawed and troubled industry by choice. I applaud you for following your artistic dreams, but no one is holding a gun to your head to stay in it. Hauling out the argument that mp3 sharing is taking food out of your mouths is an ineffective tactic, because ultimately it's only a symptom of a much larger, uglier problem. Something will have to change in the way that the record companies are doing business, otherwise they cannot expect to stay in business. Anything else is a band-aid, not a cure.

[red bootz]

yeah, that's the type of response I thought I'd get. Not everybody is as lucky or as talented enough to make a living at something they love. If you can make a living out of it, then congrats. But if you can't thems the breaks. If your going to blame joe blow who works a 9.50 an hour job and decides that he'd rather get his music for free to explain why you can't make a living at what you love, well I'm sorry that's just the way it is. If you love what you do, you will do it regardless of whether you can make a living out of it or not.
Besides, If you're always trying to sell yourself to a label, where does the selling end and the artform begin?

[marisa]

My Dad played music because he loved it. Even when doing gigs all over LA he worked hard at laying carpet part time as a day job. Because he loved doing live shows and giving people a good time.

Marisa

[red bootz]

Same with my dad. He plays the shakuhachi, a little known Japanese instrument constructed from bamboo. He's spent the better part of life dedicated to this ancient tradition. Every gig he's played he's given all the earnings to a charitable organization he ran in the east side of downtown (which by the way was his regular job). We gew up broke as hell, but alwas surrounded by like-minded musicians and respect. He never once promoted himself. It was all about the joy of interacting with his instrument and his audience.

[Lisa]

Here in canada we pay a royalty tax on blank CDs regardless of what their intended use is. I mainly use CD's to back up MY data such as pictures I've taken or to burn free software I've downloaded from the internet (ie redhat, freebsd). The way I see it, we've already paid for the music with that royalty tax.

Then there's the whole issue of CD's being more expensive then cassettes! WHY? CD's cost way less to press then cassettes do to make, sell in greater numbers so that subtracts from the manufacturing costs even more. I remember when CD's first came out they were more expensive cause they were "new technologhy" and artists got less of a cut because money had to go into "paying for the technology". I don't know if the percentage has been raised for artists but i can't see why they cost so much compared to cassettes.

[Tim_Cranwill]

Well, we all have valid and interesting points here. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it all works itself out. I can see the side of the "Downloaders" for sure and I can relate to their actions and feelings. But as an aspiring artist, it kind of worries me that this career I've worked at building for the past 13 years looks like it might be in jeopardy. Business sucks sometimes...

Peace. :) Now back to your regularly scheduled threads....

Hey guys, can I keep a spotted python and a Brazilian rainbow boa in the same screen top aquarium? ;)

[SCReptiles]

I can’t believe this. People care because it is their livelihood. It’s how they earn a living. Sure the artiest will be well taken care of, but what about the blue color people who work in that industry? How about the guy who works in the factory making those CD’s? If people create something, they should be paid for it. But, I do understand that the technology is not going to go away. The record companies are making an error in how they are handling this. They must understand that while they hate this technology, they have to embrace it and use it to further their case. This same issue was debated many many years ago when the radio began playing music. The record companies of the day hated the idea because it cut into their sells. In time they understood that you can not take away teck once it has been introduced, so they worked with it. The record companies of today will have to learn to do the same thing.

[Bryce Masuk]

One of the many thing that can be thrown in here are 1. sony makes the Ripping software and a Crap load of hardware one would use to "Steal" Music They profit from Filesharing maybe Thety should Put some of that money into the artists pockets.

Cd's Are outdated (Yep Already) Why would you want a Cd when you can have a hardrive that is Smaller and Holds more and you can erase it when ever you want

If the music Bussiness Collapses It Will have learned a lesson That people dont want this Commercial Crap anymore And they will Re-build With what we want But I doubt it will go to that.

Sueing 12 year old Girls is sad and only reasures The Hate I have for the riaa hopefully the music industry will Become Musician Controled A huge Co-op is The Best option Imo

[hip]

I would have to agree with Tim on this one. I just sucks to see so much time and effort gone for not. It takes time to learn anything (playing for 24 years and still learning) And in all honesty most musicans never do "make it" and are resigned to playing in cover bands. Just think there are a lot of folks trying to get a break and this will cut down on thier chances of siging a deal. Playing in a cover band is like being poor(there are a select few that do well but not very many) Just think that playing 3 nights at a drinking place once all the union fees are paid and extras for rentals and or union sound guy and or other incendentals are taken care of you are lucky to pocket 150 bucks( you might be lucky to get a few promo beers) Just gearing up now days is huge bucks. Hell I have a small set up just for doing home recording and I am in for about 12 grand and do not have enough gear anymore to play someone's bath room. I do see both sides of the story but the real thing is this is going to end badly for oneside or the other there will be no middle ground on this one. I would hope that this will work out for all of us in the end but it does not seeem like it will sad days for all ahead. Tim if you have any of those demo's left e mail or pm me so I can buy one from you I am interested to hear what's up with your stuff.




Lost in the minor scale




Hip

[MouseKilla]

I remember as a kid I had hundreds of tapes. About ninty percent of them were dubbed from someone else's tape so I laughed when the whole Napster thing happened. People talk as if music theft hasn't been rampant since the cassette format became common about 25 years ago. If it's caused anything it hasn't been the empoverishment of musicians. Musicians are making more money now than they ever have so Metallica can cry me a friggin river. As for the musicians that don't make it in the mainstream it isn't because the 5 global media empires that own basically all the record lables can't afford to pay them. The fact is that there is only so big a market for any given kind of music which is why being good doesn't necessarily get you anywhere. You need more than skill. Bribery or an uncle in the biz, that sort of thing.

[Tim_Cranwill]

Hey Hip, nice to hear from you! :D

I was supposed to go down and record a few months ago but it was pushed back for various reasons. I "should" be going in October or November. I'll send a couple copies to you when I'm all done. :)

[unknownclown]

Well aparently you and I Mousekilla are the only ones to remember way back before CDs.

Im with you on the Metalica thang too, they are nuthin but a bunch of sell out whiners as far as Im concerned. Heck maybe if they came out with a CD that didnt sound exactly like the last 5 or so theyve made they could quit pointing thier fingers at everyone else for thier loss in sales.

Anyways, (back to the subject) for me if there werent any file sharing sites I wouldnt have have heard of alot of music that is out there. I have a younger friend that I IM quite alot that lives on the other side of the continent and another in Peurto Rico and when they hear songs they like they usually suggest that I download it to see what I think. Usually I think they are crap but thats not the point. Also I doubt I could run to Wallmart or where ever and pick up some of the stuff my friend in Puerto Rico listens to. But in all honesty I cant see file sharing as an all together "bad thing". Also what about the old school type music that no longer gets stocked in stores? My Ex husband was here last night and downloaded," Gods Of Wrath" an old Metal Church song. Now if we couldnt have gotten that off the internet where in the heck could we have gone?

Oh and speaking of old school music I better go download a few more before they get lost forever in this BS Hm... Pantera's Cemetary Gates is a must ;) Havent heard that one in years. If file sharing sites are gonna be a thing of the past I better stock up for the future :p

[Lisa]

I gave up on Metallica when their self titled album came out (damn you Bob Rock). When they freaked out about napster I was surprised but it kinda makes sense with their switch to pop.

There's other avenues of generating funds, artists such as Moby have shown us that by making huge sums from advertising. I know, not everyone can do this, but hey, not everyone can be a movie star, exotic animal breeder or a rock star.

I've seen figures saying that since file sharing sales are up for music sales, and I'm sure there's figures out there that state the opposite. I do know I downloaded music via Napster I wouldn't have bought and other music that I never would have been exposed to as it just isn't played on the radio. Also there's the live performances, the odd cover song and stuff that just isn't being produced anymore.

Some how I can't see file sharing going away, I can see it going underground or servers being moved to countries where there are lax or no copyright laws where the RIAA holds no ground.

[hip]

Hey Tim I have been working on this thing in B minor and I have come up with a couple of leads to start with (just like a couple of bars) I would like to send them to you and have a bit of input. I will start it off and then you add something send it back and I will add to what you added. If you do not have the time I fully understand plus I could learn a thing or two from someone of your caliber. I would hope it would broaden both of our horizons and help us both in our "holy cause" If this is a go tell me what format you would prefer.



Just on the outside of the circle (the fringe of what is known )




Hip

[Tim_Cranwill]

That sounds great Hip! As far as recording software, I have Cubase and Cakewalk. But just a wave file would be fine... but then we could only add to the track and couldn't modify it. Either way though.... :)

My email is cranwill@mts.net

[murph]

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't artists such as anyone from Ozzy to Britney to U2 get millions and millions before these albums even come out, they sign contracts with record companies do they not...they are getting the money upfront, they make the record and the record company gets the money based on the sales...I don't know much about the business but that's how I figure it would work, places like walmart, best buy, hmv whomever buy a certain amount of each album, isn't that how sales are kept track of not by every joe blow who bought the new eminem cd, sales are based on the distribution of the cd's to the stores is it not? So once the stores buy them up off the record company, the record company could care less of who buys what, they sold their product already. Just guessing don't know for sure, I'm just saying by artists signing contracts for millions and millions of dollars they are getting paid regardless of what they spit out...they may have a certain amount of albums to make or it may be an album by album deal but the artists aren't "starving" by any means...are most big name artists so greedy that they are bitching about getting paid 20 million to make an album then because they don't get as big of a cut on a percentage of the albums sold? Boo hoo. Cry me a river. Yes for the up and comers that don't have a major name behind them it is alot harsher, but millionaire cry babies like Metallica make me sick! Yes I download music, but for only songs from a album that I know I won't like or would never buy, only downloading it because I only like the one or two songs from the cd. I fully support my favorite artists by buying every cd/album they come out with, if I truly like them I'll buy their stuff...maybe if some of these artists wouldn't come out with these "hot new" singles then to make a quick buck come out with a piece of crap album to make some more money, maybe make a descent album, then more people will buy them. Well I've ranted enough.....lol.

-murph

[Tim_Cranwill]

Sorry Chris, that's NOT how the biz works. Artists get what's called an "Advance" which may be $20'000 or $2'000'000 depending on how established they are. That advance would be like your employer paying you for December, January and February right now. It's an advance, not a hand out. They don't earn royalties until that advance is paid off. It's more of a loan than anything.

Plus, the millionaire crybabies make up about 0.005% of the business. A lot of people are affected by the success or lack of success of an album, from the top execs to the janitor at the studio. If the company is doing badly... sh*t flows downhill...

[RepTylE]

So let me get this straight. There are people that actually pay for music???????

[TheRedDragon]

Man, the music industry is taking a real low going after a 12 year old girl. And it all started with Sell-out-a-ca and Crapster. I could be wrong, this bull could have been going on long before that. And, I'm with Mousekilla, I used to have plenty of dubbed tapes WAY before CDs came out, so, I guess I was stealing then too eh? *L* I don't buy CDs anymore anyways, why buy a CD for the ONE song you like on there and risk the rest being absolute junk?

[hip]

Well Tim I guess I am going to have to buy cakewalk 2004 now so we are on the same groove. I am currently in the "dark ages" I still do it on zip disks (probably no good for you) Give me a while to get set up (good excuse to come up with some new ideas don't you think?) I will keep you posted on my progress I hope you are not in a rush(will take a bit of time)

Inflection is the road to creation



Hip

[hip]

Ok Tim I am looking for a new version of cake walk all i found so far was 6.0 and you know how old that is (pentium 1 compatable) yes I live in a low tech city. I was scared to ask if they knew what a zip disk was. Good thing I bought a 8250 with all the bells and whistles ( should make life much more easy when it comes to recording) Did you get my mail? you know elvis c? you dirty dog guess you are light years ahead of me! Don't laugh at my simple ***** man




If major has a relative minor ,does a minor really need a major?




Hip