Identification.

[Dozer]

Look here...

Picture (http://community.webshots.com/photo/83820591/89808847wjoTAo)

Grey rat snakes? They have pinkish / brown bellies... any idea?

[alex_33]

Imo they look sort of like Baird's rat snakes but I'm not 100% sure.

[Siretsap]

almost looks like a mix betwen a cornsnake and a rat snake

[Janiman]

My guess would be Bairds ratsnake (Elaphe Bairdi).

[Simon R. Sansom]

Hi Dozer,

I hesitantly concur with Alex and Janiman that they are bairdi...

In my experience, baby North American Elaphe can be difficult, if not impossible to identify correctly.
However, "Baird's Rat Snake" youngsters tend to have a higher number of blotches or saddles than obsoleta. Also the dorsal blotches are not connected by two longitudinal lines in "bairdi" , as they are in obsoleta.

One of them does seem to have fairly well- connected blotches towards the neck area, a la "obsoleta", but most of them look to me like classic baby Biard's.

Nice little bunch you've got there.

Cheers!

Simon

[Katt]

Something about these does not scream out bairdi to me. Baby bairds have thinner blotches and a sort of "bimaculata" look to them.



http://market.king snake.com/detail.php?cat=6&de=139003

http://jazzinjo07.tripod.com/id24.htm

Look at the very thin blotches and high blotch count.

These guys look like how my baby black rats looked like.

Simon, I'm not sure what stripes you are refering to. Adults have stripes once the blotches apear, or are you talking about the H type saddles some babies have?

[Simon R. Sansom]

Hi Katt; yes, I mean the H-type saddles.

I have always been under the impression that baby Baird's tend to have a fairly high saddle count, often 50 or more, in comparison to obsoleta, which usually have forty or less.

Maybe they are obsoleta, but they seem to have too many saddles to me.

Simon

[Katt]

I've never counted the saddles, but I think counting saddles on ratsnakes is probably like counting saddles on BCI and BCC. Bairdi are fairly distinct as babies. Look at the pics. The saddle shape is the dead give away.

[Dozer]

I counted 63 and 59 on two random snakes...

[crimsonking]

Look like obsoleta ssp. to me. Not Baird's in my opinion. You'll have to keep 'em now to show us in a year!
:Mark

[Lisa]

I'm not an expert but they look like neonate black rat snakes to me.

[liltattyprinces]

they look similar to my baird's but not quite the same..Those are some real cute babies though

[Katt]

I saw your post on ks, I feel vindicated now!

Are you keeping any to see how they grow up??

[Stockwell]

I used to breed Grey Rats, and they looked like that.
It's also possible they are blacks, yellows, greenish or any mix thereof.

[Jonathan Crowe]

Definitely not Baird's.

[Simon R. Sansom]

Hm. After doing some checking I agree with Katt, Jonathan, Roy & Co.

Boy, do I need to get my eyes checked, LOL!

Katt, you have some Baird's, don't you?

Cheers all!

Simon

[Katt]

Yup, I have an adult pair of baird's. Should be good to go this up coming season. I'm excited to see babies. I think they are one of NA's best looking Pantherophis.

[KingFfaj]

they look like grey rats to me.... you'll know if they keep there saddles, coz spiloides do keep em and bairdi loose them
might be E.obsoleta lindheimeri, but they look like greys;)
Do you know how long they are?

[Pitviper]

I have 5 bastards of e.o.quadrivittata X e.guttata, they look the same to me, especially the pinkish/brown belly. But it ain´t easy telling right form wrong on those north-american elaphe species...

happy herping,
Pitviper