I thought BWSmith wud enjoy this

[operation_sssss]

Found this pic whilst browsing, thought BWSmith would like it

[Gregg M]

See the pointed jaw bone behind the eye stripe??? That is clearly a venomoid....... It totaly takes away from the look of the snake........ The head is way more narrow than it should be....... What a beautiful gaboon viper........ Too bad they f@$%ed it up.....

[operation_sssss]

aaaawwwww no way, are venomoids generally higer or lower in price than a snake with glands?

[SCReptiles]

Much higher. The surgery is costly to do and many snakes do not make it. According to Scott’s research, 9 snakes die for every one good void. I am currently doing my own research on voids. I will post my conclusions when I am finished. Thus far I have only found one good internet article on voids. If you are interested in them, check it out at
http://www.venomousreptiles.org/articles/55?venomsid=62c5be999bad6c409484794fadae28fd
I am also interviewing everyone I can find who is in the know. I am doing a phone interview tonight with a vet who actually does the surgery. I think by tomorrow I will have a lot more knowledge on the subject. Oh, and for the record most of the hot keepers here are void haters.

[operation_sssss]

Hope your research and project goes well. I can understand why many of you are against venomoids i dont personaly like the idea of it at all either.
I know it may seem like a dumb a** question but why is it done?? By making them a lot safer to work with than a snake in tact, are sellers hoping to increase the appeal of owning these snakes?
It could be argued that venomoids are used for educational purposes and talks but then there are zoos for that kinda thing.
If most keepers are against the idea why is there still a market, the whole venomoid issue confuses me (not hard lol :))

Sorry did not want to make this another venomoid thread

[TheRedDragon]

It's a beautiful looking Gaboon regardless of it being a venomoid. That is kinda sad though, I feel a great deal of pity for those venomoids. :(

[Scales Zoo]

[i]Oh, and for the record most of the hot keepers here are void haters. [/B]

The statement was made to point out the fact that void keepers do not qualify as hot keepers, and the surgery is the ultimate desecration of what the true hot keepers hold sacred.

[SCReptiles]

the fact that void keepers do not qualify as hot keepers
I would definitely agree that anyone who keeps exclusively voids is not a hot keeper, however, the vast majority keep and work with both. I do not know anyone who has kept exclusively voids.

[ETET]

Sad to see a beautiful snake altered and become like this....

ETET

[Gregg M]

Another great post by Scales Zoo....... Are you sure you dont keep hots Sheila???? LOL...... I am sure there are many out there Chuck....... Just because you and I dont know any, does not mean they dont exist....... I can say without a doubt there is that guy that has a bunch of kings and corns and his one venomoid gaboon viper....... Or a person that will only keep voids because that person is too afraid to keep real hots in the household....... Sure that gaboon is beautiful, but when someone that looks at real hot gaboons all day, everyday, there is a huge difference in the overall look of the animal....... It just aint the same...... I hate the venomoid issue........ To bad I cant just wish it all away...... When I started keeping hots, venomoids were almost non-existant....... Sure there was a few scatterd here and there but it was in no way as big as it is today....... I know that anyone keeping hots for more than 10 years can agree on that.....

[ETET]

You are right Gregg, there are far more people keeping voids than we know. As people have money, they can get one easily; there are voids available in those ad everyday. Years ago when I start keeping hots, only voids I saw are those from snake charmers, they just excite the fangs or sew the mouth of a cobra for their shows. Those animals won't surive too long....

ETET

ETET

[cobraman]

SCOTT....IS THAT YOU HOLDING THAT THERE VOID?????

[operation_sssss]

There was a good programme on national geographic it was part of the snake wranglers series, this woman was trying to convert snake charmers to catching snakes and milkin them rather then de-fanging them and using them for the shows.

I fail to see the appeal of keeping venomoids in a private collection, IMO i think you would respect and admire the snake more when it has the abillity to serioulsy harm/kill you.
You could say it would be like owning a burmese or retic that only grew to 6ft - it takes away the character and "what the snake is about"
Hope that made sense lol

[Mike177]

ewwwwwww,
i dont know y but when i saw those pix i kinda felt weird, kinda like the first time i killed an anamal, i mean its not like i have a problem looking at surgery but... i dont know. thanx for share that artical SC,

[BWSmith]

What a waste of a Gabby. 2 inch fangs would stil hurt alot! And who knows, nature has her petty revenges, maybe he'll get tetnis :)

[snakemann87]

Thats a very nice gaboon..............I'd LOVE to see Voids become illegal someday......HAHA!!!!! As long as theirs money involved for the vets I dont think they will stop

My dream is to become a vet.....if anyone even asks for that surgery I will personally walk them to the door........

[Scales Zoo]

[i]My dream is to become a vet.....if anyone even asks for that surgery I will personally walk them to the door........ [/B]

Walking them to the door will accomplish nothing. Refusal to do the surgery will only serve to have them look elsewhere, possibly settling for a backyard hack job.

Instead, offer to take these individuals for coffee (or whatever) and ask the pertinent questions. Why would they choose the surgery over the real thing? Why do they want to work with these types of snake, why would they not seek a mentor to show them and educate them on the proper handling of pure hots. Explain the surgery itself, what is involved and the resultant risks and consequences. Perhaps by having a better education, they will have a better understanding, and possibly a change in their way of thinking.

If you are planning on a veterinary career, possibly specializing in herps, get the best education you can. Not only from the university, but from the whole community of keepers. Attend a rattlesnake round-up, as a spectator, to witness the cruelty to the snakes, and possibly the envenomation of an idiot. Try to get into the company of professional hot keepers - it is not difficult if you are serious about learning. Visit zoos, carnivals, and private facilities whenever you can.

Gather as much information as you can in your area of interest - and just because it is incorrect information or downright stupidity does not mean you cannot learn something from it.

We always encourage the kids who think it would be COOL to have a cobra or viper to get good marks in school so they can pursue a medical career in toxicology (like Dr Bryan Fry - I hope to someday meet him). That way, they can care for and handle venomous snakes in a respectable professional manner, and instead of being frowned upon, they can be held in high regard with respect to the venomous community.

And last of all, remember that scrupulous veterinarians act in the best interests of the animals - and do not perform unnecessary surgical procedures on any animal. Spay and neuter does not count - this is done to prevent unplanned reproduction. Most animals are born with functional sex organs. I have said before, if you wish to prevent unplanned envenomation (I have yet to hear of a deliberate one, except in the cases of researchers like Mr Bill Haast) buy a cornsnake.

Just my 2 cents,
Sheila

[moperri]

WELL SAID SHEILA

[shaggybill]

Looks like a Black Mamba in the enclosure behind him. Wonder if thats a void too?

[Scales Zoo]

Thanks Mo, gotta get out there some time soon. See you in Calgary next week? We're having a blast with the rattler count, even with the rain and cold, we found 15 buzz tails today, one cranky bullsnake, pair of garters, scorpions and black widows.

You're going to have to come out with Walter next time, we will have pics at the show. Takle care,

Sheila and Ryan