Tell me what you think

[Wu-Gwei]

A friend of mine just ordered an animal and it died over night. My friend emails the person and the person will replace it when my friend buys another animal. What do you think about that?

I thought it was RIDICULOUS! You buy an animal and it died overnight. The seller should replace it, especially if they are a business. I can see how individuals cannot, but a business should replace the animal without further charges. You think I am expecting too much?

My friend is OK with it, but I think the seller should replace it. Tell me what you think.


Cheers,
JJ

P.S. The shipping was via plane across Canada.

[Neo]

did your friend get his/her money back?

[sapphire_moon]

I to think that is ridiculas....The only thing your friend should pay is the shipping to ship the dead snake back. And a replacement snake should be sent, either of the exact same breed/sex/age or of the same price (picked by your friend)......I Would definitly be calling that "business" EVERY day until I got my snake or money back, and I would go to a better place.....and personally. I would tell everyone I possibly could how bad of a breeder/business they are.......just my 2 cents.

[Wu-Gwei]

Thank you. That is what I thought too. Refund the money or send a new animal.

The dealer said he will send a replacemen when my friends buys another one?!?! What the!!!!

It's bad enough he had to deal with the death, but the cap he dealer is giving him.

Cheers,
JJ

[eyespy]

Who would want to buy another animal from a dealer who shipped a sick one? That policy is crazy, but unfortunately it's fairly common amongst distributors these days. It's important to always get any guarantees in writing before buying herps from somebody you've never done business with before.

[Neo]

what's the name of this company?

[Invictus]

That is absolutely awful. I'm not saying that breeders should give like a 30 day money-back guarantee or anything, but overnight?!?!?! There was obviously something wrong there. The animal should at least be guaranteed for a few days, IMHO. What kind of animal was it?

[Linds]

Originally posted by Neo
what's the name of this company?

That cannot be disclosed on the forums...

[MouseKilla]

I think a short guarantee is implied with every sale. I would personally be demanding some sort of redress if it was in the first week, much longer than that and the breeder/vendor has no way of knowing if you did something to cause the death, depending on the circumstances.

Linds,
Just curious, but why could a member not disclose who he received bad service from in these forums? Is it a legal issue? Seems to me if there are bad or unscrupulous dealers out there we should warn eachother out of courtesy. There are a couple of pet shops near me that I wouldn't do any business with because they take lousey care of the animals but I wouldn't waste my time slandering them. If someone burned me on the other hand I would tell everyone who would listen if he refused to make it right, wouldn't you?

[Linds]

You nailed it on the nose. sSnakeSs.com has been threatened with too many lawsuits from both big chain establishments and private people alike. This is why the BOI had to be removed and was replaced with the Inquiry Post Forum. Not the same, but any bad business is communicated via PM or email instead of publicly. Its a shame that this information cannot be disclosed on the forums for all peope to be made aware of... but sSnakeSs.com cannot afford the headaches :(

[MouseKilla]

I suspected that litigation was the concern. Has the site's admin. sought council on this issue? It seems to me that the site probably can't be held legally responsible for what members post independently, though I haven't researched this.
It would obviously be a different story if the site itself or an operator such as yourself slandered a dealer. To circumvent this problem the admin. could just "not notice" this sort of posting for a short period of time and then pull them that way they've done all the could. Anyhow it may be worth looking into the legal issue instead of being scared off by angry vendors because having a warning list would benefit many would be victims.

[stkkts]

if your scared of lawsuits, you should check out vwvortex.com They have dealt with everything, and won. everything you are concerned about, they have encountered.

If an animal was shipped, and it died the next day, those are facts. its not defamation, and its not slander (one is spoken word one is in writing) You really shouldnt let companies threaten you, because it means people like us will never hear the truth.

[Bryce Masuk]

The main reason people sue in The pet industry over bad feedback is because credabilty is damn near everything that matters. Because Curing a animal of what Ever it may have is expensive. (often more then the cost of the animal itself) and sometimes they are too far gone or its the MOST Important Aspect of buying IMO

On Other Forums I am not people Rant and rave about anyone that gives them any trouble If its a Person Dealer or Company no matter So far with no lawsuits and around 2000 threads like that Over the last 6 years or so But its not About pets no no threats of law suits at all

[Lisa]

The main problem I think is the cost of litigation. Freedom of speech probably allows for members to state their experience publicly but can you immagine the cost (and head ache) of running the site if lawyers were involved?

[Lisa]

Oh and about warranty it depends on the seller. some offer no warranty, others offer 24 hours after shipment aslong as you receive shipment with in x hours of arrival, some offer more.

[MouseKilla]

Well strictly speaking, slander is spoken defamation and libel is written but that's not too important here. The fact is that litigation is only expensive if it has some merit. A totally baseless suit would be tossed out of court and would therefore cost nothing. All that needs to happen here is that the site research the law on this matter and find out if they can be held liable for statements made by their members on the site. It seems ridiculous to think that even if a member was guilty of libel (meaning that the statement made was BOTH demonstrably damaging AND false) that the site would be accoutable because the libel was not perpetrated by the site. That would be crazy but even crazier still is the idea that if a member posted a statement that was not libelous because it was true that the accused vendor could successfully sue the site for anything at all. If no libel exists no one can be sued. If libel does exist the victim must sue the perpetrator. Likely all you need is a disclaimer. That's my free legal advice and it's worth every penny you paid for it I bet.

[reverendsterlin]

defending against any law suit is expensive in time and if smart a lawyer showing up to call it frivolus costs as well, sure Jeff can win but not at any cost he's willing to bear.

[jay76]

I hope your friend gets either his money back or a replacement. Was any sort of guarantee implied, written or verbal?

[Wu-Gwei]

There was no warranty implied, written or verbal. But generally, if you order an animal, it should stay alive for 24 hours, right? Anyway, I convinced my friend to ask for a replacement, which he did and is getting. He just has to pay for shipping. That's not bad, eh.

Cheers,
JJ

[MouseKilla]

No doubt it's at the very least a pain in the arse to be sued, though I think it's impossible to defend against any and all possible frivolous actions and it would be stupid to try to anticipate them. You could do nothing at all in life if you were that paralyzed with fear of litigation. Someone could claim that the colour of your socks caused them undue emotional stress and caused them to miss work and sue you for damages. Or they could claim that some posting in the Venomous forum made them want to pick up deadly snakes resulting in their envenomation. The list of potential stupid lawsuits is endless. What I was suggesting is that the administators of this site check out what their ACTUAL responsibilities are under the law and act accordingly. If, as I suspect, it turns out they would not be responsible for statements regarding problems with outside, 3rd party vendors then the site would be in a position to improve it's service by allowing people to post their complaints as a caution to other members. A better service = more membership = more successful and profitable site. That's all I'm saying. I don't want the site to be sued or to take stupid risks I just think it's an opportunity to improve the service they provide.

[marisa]

I am curious as to something along those lines myself....

I don't personally give a crud one way or another....but....

Fauna BOI has exsisted for a long while now, and seeing as it's owner puts out thousands upon thousands of cornsnakes each year I would assume not very much of his time or money is spent on legal issues at all. People say so much on that site about business's, other websites, etc, that is being sued is a real worry then how come they can do it over there? Just curious like I said....maybe he has a different set up, TOS, or something else.

Marisa

[stkkts]

i still say they should talk with the administrators over at vwvortex.com. There are over 100,000 members. a couple of years ago someone posted a thread bashing a dealership and its service. there were threats of lawsuits to both the forum and the person who had made the post. In the end, the dealership had no recourse. Its a public forum where opinions can be stated, and the forum is not liable for what is said. And the poster never said anything that was untrue.

[chas*e]

The only thing that sSnakeSs.com should use lawyers for is for"feeders"....lol.....I wouldn't feed one to my snakes though, the snakes couldn't stomach them..

[MouseKilla]

Stk,
What's vwvortex?

[OttawaChris]

Just a guess but I am pretty sure I know why the animal is dead... your friend immediately took the animal out of the box and shoved it under a heat lamp right? This puts an animal in danger of going into shock if it was cool for an extended period of time to begin with (from cool to instantly hot is not good... let the animals gradually warm up to room temp before going under a heat lamp)

I have to ask if the person had a live-arrival guarentee... while MOST sellers do... not all of them make this guarentee as much as it sucks (this should have all been discussed prior to the transaction being made by the way) If you were offered a live arrival guarentee then you SHOULD get a replacement or a refund. I do know some dealers that only guarentee live arrival though... after a night is no longer covered.

As for lawsuits against the site... its a big pile of ooeey... you cannot be sued for telling the truth. As long as a thread is properly moderated (ie. keep it to no actual insults or remarks about the product or the company) then you have no risk of a libel suit. If people were not allowed to write their distaste of a product or service, would we have film, food, or any kind of critic in the newspapers or on TV? You ARE allowed to write a bad experience with a company or a product with no repurcussions... just no actual saying "Mr X is an idiot and a cheat"... the way to make that statement legal is to say "IN MY OPINION, Mr X is an idiot and a cheat" ;) Remember... we are all allowed to have an opinion (that loophole was shown to me by my law teacher hehehe)

In my opinion, threatening a lawsuit against a review site is a cheap and cowardly way of hiding bad business practices... I wouldn't have let myself get pushed around by cowards.