what would you do?

[damzookeeper]

o.k, I've posted this on another forum, going to try my luck here for help as well.

As I was feeding and weighing my geckos tonight I found a horrible situation. I often check on the smaller ones a couple times. I came to one cage and everything looked good I took all the geckos out of the hides and misted them. I closed the cage back up. About 5 minutes I pulled the rubbermaid back out to feed these same leos. There are 4 of them together since they all hatched out in the incubator together and I wasn't sure who was who. They are all females about 3 weeks old in a large sweater box with 2 hides. Anyway, I noticed one gecko had her leg placed kind of weird so I looked closer and realized it was broken at the shoulder. I was in shock for a few minutes as I couldn't understand how this could happen. The only thing I can see is that I gave these guys a larger hide (taller) than the others for one of their hides and she somehow got on top of it and jumped off breaking her leg. There is only the 2 hides a shallow water dish and a shallow calcium dish which I put their mealies in. I didn't know what to do. My vet is closed and they are not really equipt for something like this anyway, they would basically put any herp down in this situation. So I put a small splint on her, you can't even imagine how hard that was with a 4 gram (probably 3 inch) gecko with scrawnie little arms and broken at what would be considered the shoulder. I don't know if this will work. She would not eat anything, I kind of figured that though, and she had clear liquid come out of her vent as I was handling her. I think this was the stress, just wonder what that was, the only other time I have seen this was in a gecko that was put down as it went to sleep.
Is there anything I can do for this girl? Would the humain thing be to put her down? Or can she heal from a break like this? I fear the answer and I fear the days ahead if I do try to keep her splinted. As it was she was trying to get the spling off. I had to put it around her body because of the location of the break, so she cannot use or move this leg at all and she is having the hardest time getting around. :( What would you do? What should I do.
In tears and beside myself
damzookeeper.

[Zoe]

Hi,
I'm not sure how it could have happened, but I've seen baby leos being put in splints and the leopards recovering, so who knows?
The clear liquid sounds normal - I've seen it happen to stressed out geckos.
You may end up needing to force feed her. Perhaps you can get some sort of pain meds from your vet and mix that with ensure, some smashed bugs and a big of supplement mixed together to get her back on track until her leg heals. You might also want to offer some waxies, they are easy to catch and pretty tasty for leos, she may want to eat them.

I wouldn't put her down quite yet. Leopards can recover from broken legs, and she has good chances to since you're taking good care of her.

At worst, she'll never eat in which case you will need to put her down. But even if the leg doesn't heal perfectly, 3-legged leos can hunt and she'll have 3 good legs and one gimpy one.

I suggest you keep her going for another few days and then re-evaluate her situation.

Zoe

[damzookeeper]

Thanks Zoe, I need some reasurance right now. I'm going to call my herp vet in Ottawa tomorrow (little over an hour away) and see if he can do anything or suggest anything. The ones I have in town don't do anything for herps other than get me meds or euthanize.
I will see how she gets along in the next 48 hours, I think that may be the most crittical time and see if I can get her to eat as well. Her leg was really swallen at the top and looked like their might have been internal bleeding. I hope she makes it! My little tang girl. :(
Angain thanks for the fast reply. Going check on her again and then get some sleep, I hope.

[Mark]

not the same animal but I hate a beardie that had a really broken and badly swollen arm and it healed up very nicely with no extra care except being seperated for a couple of months. hopefully the vet can help.

[Zoe]

It will be swollen and probably painful which is why I suggested the pain meds, but since the ends of the bones have been immobolized, it should be bearable for her.

Keep her warm and humid enough (not too much so, of course). Keep some waxies in a dish for her and in a day or two give her some liquid food if she hasn't eaten yet.

Worry enough to take care of her, but enough to stress yourself out. I've never heard of a leo dying from a broken leg that was treated.

Zoe

[Tim and Julie B]

I think it was here that there was a post of a little leo in a splint, same reason too. I am sure that with some TLC she will be okay. She may be hesitant to eat right now as she is in pain, but give her a couple days and she should come around. Sometimes when they are running around together they can get eachother really worked up, and do stupid stuff. I don't think that she would have fallen and broke her leg, more likely that she was bitten by another and it broke when she was trying to get away, or she twisted it, panicked and made a bad situation worse. Seems to me you are doing everything you can, and no one could ask for more. Keep us updated and I hope all is well.

Julie

[Icefire]

I got a leo that fighted with another
arm was not broken but seriously hurt
I got a pic a my gf house, I'll post you
took 2 weeks to recover at 100%

[OttawaChris]

At the worst case if it doesnt heal properly I would have the limb amputated before putting the gecko down... just my 2 cents.

[Alicewave]

I can't add too much else except make sure she is getting enough calcium. They are so much more fragile when they are that yound and haven't had time for their bones to strengthen. It definitely doesn't sound like she needs to be put down. Good luck with her. You're doing great so far!

[eyespy]

I second the calcium suggestion Alicewave made, and suggest that you offer her plenty of water by medicine dropper or feeding syringe as well. Her body will need lots of fluid and calcium in order to heal.

[drewlowe]

I had this happen earlier this year. Took her to the vet and this is how he fixed it. It took the leo a few month after the mini "cast" was off to be able to walk right again. Remember atropy (sp) of limbs when they are in cast. and he didn't really want to eat either. I had to hand feed him. With all my babies coming this year i didn't have the time needed to spend with this baby. So i gave it to a girl i knew had the time and experince. I actually got an update of him and he's doing great eating like a champ walking ok and bigger than the rest of her leos.

I hope this gave you a little hope. Keep giving her calcium powder also.

Here's a pic of my guy in the mini "cast".

[damzookeeper]

well, here is an update. Not much but I'm still working on the situation.
First, I checked on her last night about 11:30 before going to bed, she had wiggled the splint off and was calm and not moving much in the moist hide so I left her be for the night.
I forgot to mention, I had separated her from the others and made sure she had heat all night and a nice warm moist hide, I'm sure you all figured that out but thought I would mention it.
Anyway, this morning she hadn't eaten but she was still looking good, considering. I also wondered if it wasn't dislocated as someone on another forum mentioned. This is very possible looking at her now, I just really paniced at first. I love this little guys and I hate to see anything wrong with them.
I checked on her both at my break and lunch hour and by lunch she was standing on it but it still flopps back and forth. I also called the vet and talked to the secratary. They had no openings for today with the herp vet and only, possibly, one tomorrow around 1pm. I also have to be at a wedding for 2pm in town and the vet is well over an hour away. :( I'm sure my friends will understand if I am not at their wedding but I will feel like I have deserted them.
Anyway, I also asked about an exray, she wasn't sure if the vet could do one on such a small leo. She is only 5 grams and very tiny little limbs. I was also afraid if she tried to put it back in place if it was dislocated would she end up doing more damage than good? They also gave me an estamate. Kind of a large range but it will cost anywhere from 150-240 for the visit. :( After getting off the phone I wondered... If it is a dislocation will it be like humans and come out of joint often? Will it cost me over $100 every time this happens? And how often is it going to happen? I don't mean to sound cold but I was planning on selling her but now I could not, especially if I knew this could happen again.
As for the calcium, I guess it is possible as anything is. But they do get dusted food daily and vit. suppliments once a week. My babies also have a dish of calcium (I put the mealies right in it) from the day they are fed. I know they play in it, there are scratch marks and the mealies get eaten so I'm sure she is getting calcium. But I can also ask the vet about this and get a shot if needed, I'm sure it will only be a couple bucks added to the bill.
I am going to call a couple more vets tonight to see what I can do and see what they recomend. I'll let you all know what happens. Thanks for all the replies and the support. ;)

[damzookeeper]

OK, Now I'm just teed off!!!!!! I called 9 vets tonight, 4 of which are SUPPOSED to be the only exotic vets in my area, which is still 1 and 1/2 to 2 hours away! They kept all refering me to each other. I called alta and found out Dr. Auger is no longer there. Phoned his new place of work and they told me he had gone home for the night and was not due back till the the end of next week! I then called the vet that was called at lunch and got a new secratary. She told me that they don't actaully do lizards and the person I talked to today must be misinformed. Also she gave me another hospital to call, a bit farther away but they have a couple exotic vets..... so I called them (of course all these are long distance numbers as well. lol) Anyway, I finally got somewhere. I talked to an assistant there, she said that they do not actually have any vet that specializes in reptiles, the only real herp vet in our area is Dr. Auger.
But anyway, she said they do exotics and that the vet that was in tonight was good but tomorrow's vet would know more and has over 25 years experience with exotics. He could help me out more. If I need pain meds tonight she said I could see my local vet, I told her that is not possible because they told me that is their biggest concern, they do not know how much meds to administer to reptiles. So she said I could go in if I wanted tonight for pain meds. She also told me that I was missinformed about the costs. The x-ray itself would be 100 or more if they have to do two or split exrays. Then there is the initial set up fee $60, then there is the meds to put the gecko under for the x-ray, and any pain meds, and other things like if it needed a splint, cast or something done to the arm before leaving. She talked to the vet there and they could not find anything in the med books about dislocation in reptiles, only fractures. I was on the phone for a good half hour with her.
So... she told me I could call tomorrow to speak to Dr. Cottell, he would be my best bet but at 3 weeks old and 5 grams she is not sure they could do anything other than x-ray and meds and that it would run me at least $200 no less, and quite possibly more and no guarentees. When I told her I was a breeder she said maybe I should just ride it out and see what happens or euthanize if I find it is in too much pain.
So in conclusion, I think that is what I am going to do. She doesn't look to be in too much pain, although I know they can hide it well, but I think I will disturb her as little as possible, and leave her for a few days. She has a nice tail for her age so she will be alright for a few days if she doesn't eat, and I will see if it gets better or worse and make my decision from there. :(
Thanks everyone for the help, concern, and support.

[Icefire]

well most thing to do since you are a breeder, try to take care of
it without the vet.. normaly it's a leo you would sell after 2-4 weeks, just give it a chance, calcium, water and give her wax worms in a dish they wont climb, gecko really love them!

once it's doing good, just give it to someone you know who would
really take care of, many gecko leo do fine with 3 legs so dont need
to put her down, if she does die, you would have do all you could
for. When my lily got her arms quite bad, I called many vet, they
said min is 35$ and they dont know if there is thing to do with leo
so forget about vet with leo unless its egg retention, fecals exam
or parasite

so she is now completely healed , and it was worst than the pic
their was shed on her arms, all toes stuck, was a mess