People being rude

[marisa]

Hello!

Well as most of you know I had a clutch of cornsnakes this year, and obviously selling them. In the past I have bred birds so I am not new to the whole buyer and seller issue.

But I have never ever in my years of selling birds, seen people act like they do when they respond to reptile ads. I have had at a few people try to buy a snake off me like five times but can never give me SOLID details as to where they want them delivered. Yes I offer to deliver them so you would THINK the buyer would be happy to say when and where. Or at least commit to wanting one or stop pming me, either way works for me. When I ask them if they are serious, or want to commit to a date, they either say *I* am being rude! or just don't respond to that.

It's getting really frustrating. Finally to those few people after now a MONTH of going back and forth and them never making a solid choice, I told them I would prefer not to sell them a snake. Is this wrong? In all cases I would be driving an hour (give or take a few minutes) to deliver a snake to them, which is no problem. But I am not going to do this with people who over a months time can not tell me where they live, and yes they want one. They just keep pming me over and over again bickering, bartering and asking me the same questions over and over again. I realize newbies are new, but I have answered all the questions and finally said nevermind.

Am I wrong? Or do you others who sell put up with this from a certain person/people for months and months if they feel like it?

Marisa

[sapphire_moon]

I would do the same thing you are "never mind, if you can't after more than 3 weeks (to have enough time to come up with money etc...) commit and either actually say you want one or tell me your address or a meeting place, Then I am not going to sell you a snake"...personally, I would do that. If people were jerking me around like that I would think that they are either liars, or not responsible enough to take care of one. If I lived near you and you offered to BRING me a snake that I wanted to buy, I would snap at the chance. I don't see alot of people being kind enough to use their own gas money to bring a something they are selling to someone......If they don't want to commit then don't sell. I think you are being very generous and kind in actually delivering the snake to them, and if they can't even appreciate that, then they don't deserve a snake!!! lol

[Lisa]

I know of one breeder that just won't sell corns to the public anymore. pet stores only.

[marisa]

Well for the ones that are an hour or more away I said I would deliver it for a few bucks more....but as time went on and these buyers become wish washy, I told them I would just deliver it for the price that I have sold my other babies that have been picked up for. I have also offered to deliver them on weekends, or during the week but none would commit to a day. So I have tried to be flexable if they asked. And yeah most certainly been more than three weeks or flipping back and forth.

I just don't want to do this wrong but I feel I am right in saying nevermind at this point. It's not as if I want to "get rid" of them, which some of these buyers are suggesting...saying things like "oh if you get desperate let me know". Sure I want to sell them before my vacation but hey if not one more goes, I will still be happy to get my pet sitter to watch them AND be happy to spend more time with them. :D

Marisa

[The_Omen]

If PMs here.. you can ignore them (yes, it's a feature ;) )
If you want to that is..
If in email, just add their addys to a spam filter etc..

But if they can't give a deffinate anything, no need to spend your time with them on the matter. Period.

[Linds]

I agree, if they are being too sketchy then its in your right as a seller to just move on. Its a judgement call. Of course some things may happen in that are unexpected causing a bit of stress on deals, but then there are people that are just sketchy and not worth the headache Some questions you can ask yourself are: Do I want this person as a customer in the future? Do I want one of my animals going to this person?

[Scotty Allen]

For what it's worth Marisa, I salute you for being as patient with these pains in the *ss as you have been. You're not being rude at all, you're wasting too much of your time and energy. I've been dealing with the same nonsense for years now. I even get numerous e-mails, messages etc. back and forth from the same individual over a $5.00 book. How about "well, I really need it but don't have the money right now", "I don't have the cash right now, could you save it for me till the next show", "you mean I have to pay for postage too?" etc. etc. ad nausem. Come out to the show on Sunday and you'll notice a distinct lack of live animals on my table, mainly because a number of breeders have given up selling to the public and are now strictly wholesaling whole clutches or entire seasons production to pet stores.

[sapphire_moon]

Hey atleast when breeder sell to pet stores they are good clutchs (if from a good breeder)......FlatwoundScotty: That is exactly what I was TRYING to say. I'm not good with words today. lol.

[marisa]

Thanks folks.

I really don't mind the whole public thing normally and as the seller I try to think how things are going from the buyers prespective because I so often am the buyer myself. So I try to be understanding, fair, and patient.

Maybe in the future when I have more babies to sell I will be avoiding the public. I understand where you are coming from Scotty about avoiding the public altogether. It is easier that way. When I was a bird breeder., most of the "lower end" birds would be wholesale to pet stores as soon as they were ready to be on their own. I wouldn't even put an ad, or let people know about them because in the end it was way to much work. Maybe I will take a lesson from my own experiences from now on.

Thanks for replying guys, I feel better about the position I have taken and will stand by it now that I know many of you feel I did the right thing.

Thanks again

Marisa

[OttawaChris]

I know exactly what you mean Marisa... I never had as many pains in the arse as I did when I was selling herps. What colour is it? Whats the pattern? Can I see pics? Can I get the middle name of your great grandmother? Can I know the plot number she is buried in? Yada yada yada...

You are being a lot nicer about it than I was at the end I can tell ya that :D

[Invictus]

Marisa - Tell ya what... if you want to drive out to Calgary, I'll buy some snakes from you. I'll even throw in $10 for gas. :D

Just kidding of course. I've emailed breeders asking them about the availability of their stock, only to not commit to a purchase. If I have X dollars to sink into snakes, I'll find out what's available, figure out what I want more, and buy from whoever I choose. But, usually when I say "Ok, I'm definitely interested", I mean it. I would hate to see breeders stop selling to the public, especially because I *refuse* to pay marked up retail prices. There are still a few of us out there who will buy 7 snakes at one time, pay for shipping, and even commit to a certain day to do the transaction. :)

[BoidKeeper]

It's crazy some people want me to deliver a $20 bag of mice 4 hours!
This weekend though I'm a driving 4 hours to drop off two conr snakes and some mice, but the other person is, get this, driving like 5 hours to pick them up! If he's willing to go that far then I don't mind. Besides I'm helping get someone new into the hobby. I'm sure this individual will not forget it either. Someday the same person may want a pair of Hogs from me. The point is I don't know. I try to treat everyone I sell a snake too like gold so that when they want something else they keep me in mind. That's why I deal with Don P. That guys bends over backward to keep his customers happy. I could have gotten some of my snakes from other people and paid half the shipping cost but with Don I always know what to expect. I've learned from the way he does business and I try act the same way. If I start pissing people off now when I'm just selling corns I doubt they will come back for hogs, brbs, or kenyan morphs etc.
I don't think you are being rude at all. There are a lot of tire kickers out there in this hobby and they can be anoying at times. I will say this though if people are going to act like a retailer they should expect to get treated like one too. The customer is always right (sometimes). Also remember this old rule of business, "A happy customer tells three people. A pissed off one tells six.".
Cheers,
Trevor
PS
I worked all day and my brain is mush. For all I know I just wrote nonesense.

[marisa]

Well you know its not even about asking questions. I would answer a potential customers questions for MONTHS to make them happy. No biggie there.

The problem is getting a pm like this one week: "O.k. 50 bucks is fine, weekdays are good for me, i will get back to you"

then I wait a week with no word.

All the sudden a week and a half later get a pm like this:
"I see you still have them, sell me one for 40 bucks and deliver it?

Then I say yes, and another week later with no set up time for delivery I get this:
"Well i see you still have them, if you get desperate email me, have you sexed them? I want a good one"

Then after I reply I would get something like this ANOTHER week later:
"O.k. I will pay 50 but I

And this goes on and on with a few specific people I am dealing with right now. Its annoying.

Marisa

[marisa]

Well you know its not even about asking questions. I would answer a potential customers questions about the snake and/or snake husbandry for MONTHS to make them happy. No biggie there.

The problem is getting a pm like this one week: "O.k. 50 bucks is fine, weekdays are good for me, i will get back to you"

then I wait a week with no word.

All the sudden a week and a half later get a pm like this:
"I see you still have them, sell me one for 40 bucks and deliver it?

Then I say yes, and another week later with no set up time for delivery I get this:
"Well i see you still have them, if you get desperate email me, have you sexed them? I want a good one"

Then after I reply I would get something like this ANOTHER week later: (all from the same person mind you!)
"O.k. I will pay 50 but I Better get a good one"

And this goes on and on with a few specific people I am dealing with right now. Its annoying.

Marisa
P.S. sorry for double post

[Alicewave]

I didn't read all the replies so sorry if I repeat what someone else has said. They are your animals so sell them on your terms. You don't owe anyone anything. Especially if they haven't given you money or signed a contract. Yes the customer is always right but you're not selling electronics. You're selling a life, something that will live a very long time, that's you've put blood sweat and tears into producing. The best interest of the animals is what's most important. I personally think it's a good thing to be hesitant to sell to someone. I'd love to see a more stringent screening process on the sale of reptiles. Good for you!

[Corey Woods]

Marisa,

Welcome to the breeders side of the Reptile industry! I don't consider an animal sold until I have cash in my hand. It's pissed a couple people off in the past when they take a month to send me money only to find out someone else sent me money before they did. But, hey, that's the way it has to be! I know myself I'd prefer to wholesale all of my stuff.....or just produce the high end animals as the people buying those rarely **** you around and pay what you are asking for the animal(s).

Corey

[MouseKilla]

Oh... rude people, I thought it said nude people, my mistake. Oh and Corey's right, doesn't matter what you are selling, if they want it they'll chuck up the cash. All you can do is sell to the first guy that puts it in your hand, what difference should it make to you who that is? Snooze and lose, that shouldn't be a new idea to anyone.

[Tim and Julie B]

Personally, if someone commits to a transaction I give them 2 weeks to deposit the cash and will only ship once I receive it. If they take longer I sell to the next in line. That's the only way to do business such as ours. Too many flakey people out there to take any risks. People son't understand that we as breeders put a large portion of our time into reptiles, and most of us work 'regular" jobs on top of it. They always want "great" deals and get pissy if you don't drop your prices to the bottom dollar. Would they go to work and accept being paid less for the same amount of work? I think not, yet they expect that of us! There's little to no respect in this industry, you kinda need to accept that early on if you want to be satisfied in this hobby. Otherwise every potential customer becomes a stress to deal with. Then again, I've been pretty lucky with the people I have dealt with so far:D *knocks on wood*

Julie B.

[Pia]

Marisa, I don't think that is being rude at all. It sounds like you have been very accomodating. I think that if a person is seriously interested in a certain type of snake and finds one for a fair price and free delivery, they would take it. To me, these people sound like time wasters that aren't so much interested in corns, but getting a cheap snake period. If you do end up selling to them for a reduced price this time, they will want the same if they buy from you in the future, and you will probably have to go through the same dickering again. I realize breeders have to consider their reputation and it's competitive especially if it is your sole income, but I think serious buyers would be happy with what you are offering.

[Stockwell]

Here, Here, Corey, I second that!!..and thats why I rarely fly stuff, have yet to get a web site, and mostly wholesale batches of stuff off to one individual that pays me in a prompt and
professional manner.
Maintaining one or two good business relationships, to move your animals, is far easier than
initiating a brand new one with every potential sale.

Retailing direct to the end user, as they say, can be very problematic and time consuming for
breeders, because almost every sale involves correspendence, and planning, either before or
after or both. All of that involves time. If you have the time and are herping as a full time occupation, it's one thing, but most of us also have full time day jobs and other responsibilities and hobbies.
Also high end sales(500 and up/each) are worth the extra effort and full customer service.
You'll often notice that many breeders that are full service web based operations, are not selling only corn snakes and cal kings.
If it takes 3 hours of corresopondence time and effort, to sell a 50 dollar cornsnake and keep it
sold, with your reputation intact, that's just false economy.
You're better off moving the entire clutch to a petstore for 25 ea, and be done with it.
I almost always sell through a broker or direct to a retailer as this provides an all important
"buffer" and it avoids all the extra work and allows me to get back to what I do best. "breed herps"
Being a breeder doesn't necessarily mean you need to become or should be expected to become a marketer/shipper/customer realtions/ husbandry adviser/ full package marketer.
Don't get me wrong. I enjoy helping other herpers out,especially new ones,and I do so regularily , but private lessons for every single sale when you produce hundreds of animals, just isn't really feasable.
A little advice to herp buyers..
Realize that you too will probably be in our shoes eventually.
Most herpers do eventually evolve out of the purely acquisition mode to become breeders themselves, at least in a small way. Once you become a breeder, you're part of the industry, whether you like it or not.
Its in your best interest to make life easy on breeders if you have the opportunity to buy
direct. What goes around comes around as they say.

And a little plug for Retail...Retail is often much maligned, but these operations are really
the heart of the industry, and in fact control the industry. Without them there would be no shows, less clubs, less supply and less demand..

Retailers showcase breeders stock and have to deal with Joe public, Joe Newbie, and Joe
breeder alike... They welcome everyone into their stores, and do their best to answer
questions. The same questions over and over again... Retail is the On-Ramp for most future herpers/breeders alike!!!
That's there job ! But it ain't for everyone. It's something to think about when you're feeling
you would have got a higher price if you sold directly....Sure you do, but there are real costs
for that extra dollar!
The longer you hold animals the more you have to feed them, house them and water them. Also direct sales means meeting people somewhere , as most breeders don't have potential buyers to their facilities as this is a huge liability. Therefore travel is also frequently involved.
All this must be considered when breeders decide their strategy for moving their animals to market.
Most of us simply just want to do it the easiest possible way, even when that's not always the most profitable

See you all Sunday!! & be nice to the vendors! LOL

[Jeff_Favelle]

Yep Marisa, like Corey and Uncle Roy said, its the worst part of the business/hobby. If I could, I wouldn't sell to the public at all. There's a reason that working in retail sucks. Its because PEOPLE SUCK! Ha ha, just kidding (sort of). But yeah, Canadians are notoriously cheap and a lot of people (not all) will try and barter back and forth trying to get better prices, free shipping, etc etc. I don't mind that. The bad part is when a deal is set, and you don't hear from the person for a few weeks, and they miraculously email back asking for the animal at a cheaper price!

Which is why it helps to have a set price and just stick to it. I don't care if people sell the same animals as I do for 1/2 the price. Know the quality of your stock, know its place and value in the market, and charge accordingly. Be fair not only to your customers, but yourself. Its the people that have "fire" sales every year because they can't house babies or they are quitting the hobby that make it harder for the legit sellers. But such is life.

[Colonel SB]

There are a lot of jerk out there just ask any of the bigger breeders how many people say I'll buy it and then never follow up so it's not just you. You gotta get used to it.

[marisa]

Hello thank you for all the in detail replies.

You know I honestly figured because I have low end snakes, and only one clutch it would be easier. For one, why would anyone bicker over a snake that costs like 50 bucks or less? Well that's what I thought anyways. For two if you can't afford 50 bucks why are you even buying anything? LOL but anyways the public will never cease to amaze me.

At the beginning of my bird breeding years ago (god I had to have been 17) I was selling even low end birds to the public. I can't tell you how many times the birds would be left at the airport, (even if they were paid for in some cases) or returned to me unannonced by someone local, or I would go through 3 months of talking with someone about a 60 dollar bird and then they still couldn't make a choice. Bird people are so much worse than reptile people.

In the end I started selling entire nests/clutches to the pet stores. It saved a lot of headache in the long run but I also lost touch with good people who would come over buy a lower end bird then come back for higher end stuff I had at the time. So I dunno it works both ways but in most cases its probably better to sell them off and be done with it. But then again, why breed if all you want to do is have them come out and go?

But yeah thanks for all the replies.

Marisa

[drewlowe]

Marissa this is something i'm going through at the same time. I breed 3 different things at the moment. Even though most of the people i have met or talked to have been great, and i love educating them. It's the people that try to barder me down all the time that really upsets me. I think i have very reasonable prices if you can't afford a snake or a leo for 20 then what are you even doing trying to aquire one. I hate hearing if i buy one can i get the 2nd one free. If 20 bucks is going to break them then how are they going to house it, feed it, take care of vet bills. Those are the people i won't sell to. But if its a person willing to learn I will take all the time they need. I think you made the right decision. I know i would do the same in your place.

[vanderkm]

Excellent post Marissa - and wonderful thoughtful replies. Certainly something for us to consider as we venture into breeding. We started with a couple abandoned snakes, bought our first youngsters from pet shops and were not tempted by breeding at all - at first - but in no time we are buying breeding stock and hoping to contribute to that aspect of the hobby - and facing many of the issues you have. Nice to have the perspective of those who have been at this for a while

thanks,

mary v.

[Linds]

Originally posted by MouseKilla
All you can do is sell to the first guy that puts it in your hand, what difference should it make to you who that is?

Because some people care that their animals go to people that will care for them properly...

[unknownclown]

Well I gotta give you credit for patience Marisa I wouldnt wait that long. Personally I only breed & sell rabbits and I dont hold onto any animal unless I at least have a down payment to hold it. I get people all the time calling and telling me they want them but I dont hear from them again.

Originally posted by MouseKilla
All you can do is sell to the first guy that puts it in your hand, what difference should it make to you who that is?


Because some people care that their animals go to people that will care for them properly...


That may be true, but if they dont have the money to buy and have to take a week to a month to scrape it up they certainlly cannot afford an animal either. I screen a bit for potential buyers if they wanna feed them to snakes I have no problems giving them the mutt bunnies or the ones that seem to no matter what just not take to being held. If they want a pet though they must know to propperly handle and hold them house them in adequate cages ...blah blah blah you get the picture. :p

I did sell my snow corn though last week to a 10 year old. And had his mom not called and initialized the sale I wouldnt have dealt with them either. I ended up taking my baby corn, the cage it was in, heating pad, my whole mouse colony complete with cage & water bottle and sold it all for the sucker price of $40. Heck I even delivered it. My daughter and I stayed there as I talked to both the mom and son about propper care of the snake & mice for about a half an hour. I may have fallen sucker but who can resist a 10 year old boy in awe of a new pet?

Wopps sorry about the rant It must be the cough syrup :p

[reptilesalonica]

Agree with drewlowe (and many others). If i see that the person cannot afford the money to buy what i sell and just bugging me and asking me, i told him that i am not interesting to sell the animal any more 9and most of them bite the bait and they finaly buy the animal, but to those people that they ask to learn with interest about the conditions of keeping and caring for the animal, then to those people i will spend a few more time to educate them and finaly sell them the animal, which i know they will ask to learn more and more about general conditions.
And to those kind of people that they need to take, i will give all i can, because these people are the serious customers.
Never sell your image lower. Wether its your personal life or as a breeder. You know what the animal costs. You know how much time and effort you've spend on that animal to see it emerging from the egg, because of YOU and because of what you know. Well, this knowledge costs and if some people don't understand it, probably they don't want to admit it just to pay more money.
I am polite with all my customers but if i smell that someone is trying to mess me up with his personal problems just to make me lower the price, i simply don't sell the animal to him. I find an excuse and silently go away.
~Greg~

[lilyskip]

I think you are being more than reasonable. I wouldn't worry about people being ridiculous...you've done all you can.