Do you use a feed box?

[MouseKilla]

Personally I don't use a feed box but I know a lot of people do. I've heard arguements for and against. I don't have any strong feeling about it but I've never found one necessary. I've heard the purpose is to avoid the snake associating your presence with feeding and thereby reducing the risk of being bitten. I've also heard that it won't do a damn bit of good because then the snake will have to be taken out of it's enclosure and will detect the presence of the feed box, which it now associates with feeding, defeating the purpose. It seems safer to me (if you're worried about being bitten) to just feed it in it's enclosure. Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this.

[Linds]

I do not use or advocate the use of a feed box for routine feeding. I use one little container, not by my choice, but snakes choice, little girl refuses to eat anywhere but crammed into a tiny space :rolleyes: I've never seen any evidence (as once upon a time I did use them long ago) that they had any effect on a snakes behaviour, other than you were more likely to get bitten by removing your snake since some stay in "feed mode" for quite some time after (not to mention the scent of rodent in the air), and it obviously is more stressful for the snake being moved from A to B to A. I think they are useless in that respect. They do have a place, such as for animals that are housed together, or for animals that need a tight-fitting place to eat.

[marisa]

I agree with you. It's silly for people to assume a snake will associate feeding inside the enclosure with your hand and bite you. If you fed once per week, clean once per week, handle once per week and maybe spot clean/water change once per week, that's 3-5 cage opening per week if you practice proper husbandry. And some people think that feeding that ONE time out of 3-5 times will make the snake conditioned to that? Doesn't make sense.

My other point that I always make is the same one you did. If snakes are so easily aggresive from in cage feeding, and associate your hand with food because you feed in cage, then how is a feeding tub any different? LOL. If you use that logic then the snake will learn to associate you picking it up with feeding time! Duh.

So MouseKilla I totally agree with the secon part, and I feed ALL my snakes in cage. Besides, the best time to get bit IMHO is when you remove a snake after eating from those "wonderful" feeding tubs.

Marisa

[OttawaChris]

I just feed them in the cage... they are both PIGS when it comes to eating so I have never had to worry about prey touching the ground or not being eaten... I just have to keep my fingers to myself because my normally gentle corn turns into a monster when the smell of rat is in the air LOL

[Pixie]

Since I have pretty much all of my snakes on some form of loose substrate: aspen, cypress mulch, I prefer feeding them in a separate container to avoid them ingesting something that could cause them to be impacted.

It's funny that this thread is brought up as I was feeding my snakes last night and when it came to my boa (9 months, 3 1/2') she has become quite an aggressive girl at feeding time. I know it's just a question of time before she tags me good when I'm either taking her out for feeding or putting her back home afterwards. She almost did last night!

So, I am changing the substrate in her enclosure in a couple of days to newspaper cause she will be eating in her enclosure from now on!

Pixie

[sapphire_moon]

I used to feed in a feeding tub...but I only had one, so when I got my 2nd BP It became a pain to wait for one to get done so I could feed the other one...so I feed in tank now........I would think you would get bit by picking the snake up after eating...

[MouseKilla]

So far only one person uses one and she seems to agree that it's more dangerous if anything. I'm sure someone will show up to tell us we're all morons. I hope so or there is no point in asking the question.

[marisa]

MouseKilla- I also did a little personal survey on this....there was about 8 questions. Not the most scientific survey but I was interested in seeing if people thought it made a differance, and how many times they have gotten bitten during either method. I have like 400 people done with it or so, and when I have more I will post the "results" as unscientific as they may be.

Marisa

[liltattyprinces]

i do and i don't depends on the snake my soronan i'm thinking i'll stick to in tank feedings cuz he's not the friendliest afterwards it just depends on time and if i'm teaching my kids different methods of feeding, as of now we have 7 snakes soon to be 8 ( yeah i'm getting a bp)certain snakes i have will not eat in their tank only in a box in the linen closet..lol...but i don't find it makes a big difference either way. i feed some of mine on a towel on the table when my son or daughter feeds them. they love watching the babies eat up close.

[elevation24]

I always had problems trying to feed outside the enclosure. I could not get my female ball python to eat outside of it, and had 3 failed attempts after receiving her. The 4th attempt, where I fed her in her enclosure, she ate just fine :rolleyes: Because of this I have just been feeding my male in his, too. My older female ball python is also fed in her enclosure.

[snake_lover]

Well ...
I feed my snakes in boxes because when you feed your snake in his cage ..Everytime you try to take the snake out of it's cage it will think you are ganna feed it again so before you get bit it's better to feed your snakes in feed boxes .. I bought my albino king snake from a pet store in miami they fed him/her in it's cage and now everytime i try to pick it up it bites me .. hehe ..

[marisa]

snake-lover that is simply not true. Feeding in cage has little to do with agreesion. I figured the above posts had explained that in detail to anyone reading them.

It makes no sense to feed out of cage because you think the snake will bite your hand, which I also clearly explained above.

If you practice proper husbandry you will be opening the cage 3-6 tijmes per week. One opening for feeding CANNOT condition the snake to think your hand is food. Period. Not to mention snakes should be fed with TONGS, so why a hand would ever be food no matter what, I have no idea.

Also, the most bites most liekly come from taking the snake OUT of a feeding tub,. they are in eating mode. Putting them in a tub once per week for feeding would condition them the same way feeding in cage would. Which is doesn't. That's obvious.

Like I said, I feed ALL our snakes IN cage and I haven't been bitten by anything over 15 inches long in two years.

Marisa
P.S. The only good reason to feed out of cage is to avoid substrate ingestion which is very dangerous. Also my logic above may or may not make sense to LARGE snake keepers as I don't know anything about the feeding/agreesion habits of retics, burms or anything else that size.

[MouseKilla]

I don't use tongs either myself. Dangle and drop. Of course I always us newspaper as a substrate so there's nothing to worry about.

[Invictus]

RedDragon and I use a combination. For example, our BCIs are just too aggressive after feeding, so they get fed in-cage. NEVER been bitten by either. Then again, we've had the female for all of 3 days now, and only 1 feeding, but I digress. :) The female is on newspaper, so no fear of substrate ingestion. The male is on bark, which is big enough not to worry too much about, and we feed dry prey so nothing sticks.

The VBBs also get fed in their enclosure, because they get scared when we dangle prey in their faces. I put the mouse on a feeding dish inside their hide box, and check on them an hour later.

The adult corns get fed on the floor. They have smallish enclosures, and NEVER bite after feeding, so we put them on the herp room floor and transfer them back to their enclosures when they are done. Never had a regurge or a bite.

For the neonates, we do use a feeding box, as they have ingested aspen before. Besides, it's a great way to get them to take the prey if its just them and a mouse in a small tupperware container.

Same with the Kenyans - good ol' feed bucket in a dark closet t eliminate risk of substrate ingestion.

So there ya have it. We feed in-cage when we can, out of cage when it's more practical to do it that way. :D

[MouseKilla]

Do you not use ingestable sand for the Kenyans? Or is that stuff maybe less ingestable than the package claims?

[spyderman]

I always use a feed box. I've NEVER had any problems with any bites.

I JUST DON'T LIKE YOUR AVATAR!!! Not the sort of thing I want my Daughter to learn!

[drewlowe]

I only have corn snakes 2 adults and 7 baby corns. I feed the babies in thier homes cause they are all in individual containers.

My adults i feed in a box so they will not consume their substrate. I've never had a problem with them trying to bite me. I think they know when they go in the box that it's time to feed cause as soon as they hit the box they are searching for food. Even if it's a box i never used before. But then again i think it would be hard to get a corn to bite ya. If i had more aggresive snakes then yes i would feed in the cage.

[burmer]

I know people who feed outside the enclosure and swear by it. I find it easier for me to feed in the enclosure. I really don't think they will associate your opening the door and seeing your hand with food. You have to open the enclosure and put your hand in to take the snake out to bring it to the feeding box. If they are going to associate your hands with food, they will nail you taking them out of the enclosure.

I have a 13' burm and a baby burm and retic now. I don't find it an appealing idea to have to have to move a 100+ pound snake before feeding and more so after feeding. Just my opinion.

[chas*e]

I don't use feed boxes....I use hemostats and good reflexes..lol

--another thing is that you got to move the snake back in after feeding and I think that is stressful, besides moving large snakes around is a pain.

[Andy_G]

I think a feeding box in most cases is a really dumb idea, I used to do it but it didn't work out too well for a few reasons, so I now feed in cage with hot dog tongs lol.

[Amiechann]

Originally posted by drewlowe
But then again i think it would be hard to get a corn to bite ya.

You must have some nice corn snakes.. When we had a bunch of babies they would try to literally spring out of their enclosure at you..lol :D

[MouseKilla]

What's not to like about my avatar? LOL! That's the cutest thing I've ever seen. Besides, learning to communicate effectively is an essential life skill and sometimes that just says it all. I don't shelter my daughter from trivial things like naughty words but if you would feel better I'll put the one with the BCI swallowing a mouse back up.

[Invictus]

Originally posted by MouseKilla
Do you not use ingestable sand for the Kenyans? Or is that stuff maybe less ingestable than the package claims?

I've never used sand and never will, for a couple of reasons:

1) It traps way too much heat.
2) Extremely poor air flow. Sand can get up their noses and into their lungs, causing a plethora of problems.

I use very finely shredded aspen for the Kenyans. They seem to like it just fine.

Oh, I should mention also.. we hand-feed. I've found that if you dangle the prey ABOVE the snake, there is pretty much no way they can tag your hand. If they have to look up to get the prey, they'll get it by the head, missing your hand by as many inches as the prey is long.

[HetForHuman]

Originally posted by Invictus


Oh, I should mention also.. we hand-feed. I've found that if you dangle the prey ABOVE the snake, there is pretty much no way they can tag your hand. If they have to look up to get the prey, they'll get it by the head, missing your hand by as many inches as the prey is long.


i do this with my little ones, but there is no way in hell i would do it with my 6+ foot boa.

i hope you wont do it with your boas when they get bigger.
i would have to say my 6+ footer is the fastest snake i own, her feeding response is amazing.

[MouseKilla]

When I was a kid I had a WC garter that was missing an eye. I did the hand feeding thing with him and he once missed the feeder fish I was giving him and took my finger instead, past the first knuckle. Scared the hell out of me, I hadn't been bitten before. I used to use the calci-sand ingestible stuff but it's too expensive for me to replace as often as I'd like. It holds smell as well as heat. No more, newspaper in all my cages, though my N pine doesn't seem to like not digging.

[Amiechann]

My husband feeds the larger ones by hand, but the way he does it makes it nearly impossible for them to bite him.. We keep racks and boaphile cages that open from the front, so no one is fed from overhead.. basically all they can see is the rabbit/Jumbo rat. I dont recommend hand feeding for everyone, but it is hard to dangle a 3-5lb rabbit with a pair of tongs.
In my opinion.. To each his/her own!
:)

[Colonel SB]

For me it really depends on the animal, my JCP's get fed in cage becasue its easier on them but my corns are on aspen so they get fed in a container. I'm not strictly for or against on way or they other what ever works best for the animals in question. There are no absolutes!

[drewlowe]

Originally posted by Amiechann
You must have some nice corn snakes.. When we had a bunch of babies they would try to literally spring out of their enclosure at you..lol :D

Ya the babies bite me but i don't count that i can't even feel it. my adults on the other hand have never bit me.

[Amiechann]

I know what you mean there..Most of the time when they bite, you dont even know they did it..lol

[hip]

I do use feed boxes for mine now(6 feet plus) They get a full hour to calm down after feeding as well and I make sure I wash my hands twice after touching any rodents. Then again mine are quite smart now as they know they are getting dead prey they just grab it and pull it back they don't even constrict it any more even when it is warm to the touch.Who says they don't learn? they are pretty docile after an hour alone in the totes and i do not take any chances either they are removed carefully and placed back in the enclosures.



Hip

[MouseKilla]

Hip,
Your system seems safe and well thought out enough so my question is: what are the benefits of doing the feedings outside of the enclosure? Do you believe you are avoiding the association between simple handling and feeding by doing it this way? In my experience my snakes don't seem to associate me with food necessarily, they do however react visibly to the scent of prey in the room whether live or thawing in hot water.

[hip]

It allows me to do cleaning disinfecting chores at the same time also it prevents from having a rodent smell linger in the enclosure. I am sure you have seen blood on the newspaper(if you use news print) this means I have to clean after feeding anyway. I do not like to touch them for3-4 days after feeding to prevent digestion or regurge problems. I also don't like the thought of bacteria growing in a warm moist enviroment(blood will do this rapidly I think) I just want to provide the best cleanest enviroment for my "kids"




Hip

[MouseKilla]

To be honest I have noticed occaisonally blood and nearly always rodent urine and feces left on the newspaper afterward. I also leave my snakes in privacy for several days after feeding (usually till some of the meal has passed through them). I know that those things aren't good to have in the enclosure but I always thought it being there for a few days till the snake is ok to be handled again wasn't a big deal, maybe I'm wrong though. Best arguement yet in favour of using feed boxes.

[hip]

I am a nut when it comes to clean enclosures for my boas(it really does pay dividends in the long haul) At the last vet check(6 month span) both of my 2-1/2 year olds have doubled their body weight and have gained 13" female and 12-1/4" in length male. these are not modest gains to say the least. I atribute this to proper feeding, supplementation clean pathogen free living area and 6 month check up's with an excellent reptile vet. i am also a firm believer in keeping notes for reference.


Hip

[MouseKilla]

Hip,
If that's nuts... That's some really impressive growth, wish I could claim the same for my BCI. I mean he (? not sexed yet) is beautiful and certainly growing, but not like that. I was keeping feeding and molting records for all my snakes for a few months but then I ended up having to rush some feedings on my way through the house between overtime shifts and lost track of the who-ate-how-many-of-what stuff and never started again. For this reason I have no idea of rate of growth or any of that stuff. I just sort of feed them as often as seems appropriate and let them eat pretty well until contented. It's hard to tell if I'm over feeding but it sounds like you must feed yours a lot more than I do to get that kind of growth. How much and how often for your BCI's at around a year old?

[Lisa]

We use feed boxes for animals that are housed together or problem feeders.

[hip]

I do not over feed( I do feed properly though) Mine are currently on a 2 week feeding schedule (Jumbo rats) I have a rule of thumb for feeding from birth to 2 years of age one proper sized food item once per week.At 2 years one proper sized food item every 2 weeks or so. At 3 years of age males go to 3 weeks while females stay at 2 weeks(if you are breeding the female on a regular basis) females who are pets and not being bred can also be on the 3 week schedule as well. I am a firm believer in supplementation as well(every other feeding) as insurance.Don't forget that freezing kills off a lot of water based vitamins (c. b complexes) Currently this practice is paying huge dividends with mine. Don't forget no two boas are alike and will grow differently in the same situation that is why notes are so important.





Hip

[MouseKilla]

Well if you aren't a supplement salesman now then you should look into it. I'm on my way to the pet store now. It seems it makes all the difference in the world, even when compared to feeding like I do: F/K or live. I'm sure I feed more food overall than that but not necessarily at such regular intervals, maybe that makes a difference too. I guess you just can't say enough about being well organized and maybe just plain fussing over them. Sounds like you know what you're doing, thanks.

[Linds]

Originally posted by MouseKilla
Do you not use ingestable sand for the Kenyans? Or is that stuff maybe less ingestable than the package claims?

That stuff is crap and causes even more problems than regular sand. It is not fully digestable as it claims, in addition it also prevents the absorption of necessary nutrients, etc (the active ingredient is an antacid... exact same thing thats in tums, calcium carbonate... know how it says not to take within a certain timespan around other drugs because it will reduce the effectiveness?) Its also dehydrating on many types of herps, tortoises do not fare well as well as sandboas. Not exactly sure what the reasoning behind that is though :confused:

Originally posted by MouseKilla
To be honest I have noticed occaisonally blood... I always thought it being there for a few days till the snake is ok to be handled again wasn't a big deal, maybe I'm wrong though.

I never clean clean the little blood spots off the newspaper. I also don't keep my animals in sterile surroundings. They are kept clean (substrate changed as needed, wiped down with peroxide as needed), but I don't believe they should be kept in sterile environments. They need a certain amount of germ to buildup their resistance to everything, as do all living things. LOL... something I have been taught from before I could even walk thanks to my dad :p

[MouseKilla]

So you're saying I SHOULD lick that mould on the rubber seal for the fridge door? I knew it! Stupid wife said I'd get sick, I'll show her.

[liltattyprinces]

LMAO ..When i feed in the tank i'll leave them for a couple days then do a cleaning My guys are deffinatly not in a sterial environment as their all in my livingroom. It's clean but hey i have 2 kids

[reverendsterlin]

the only time I use feed boxes is breeding season when things are housed together and feeding f/t there isn't any prey feces or urine released. I find my animals never react to me with a feeding response unless I am accompanied with a prey item, then again I feed my animals well and on a pretty regular schedule so it could be they aren't all that hungry.

[hip]

Hey mouse killa as you can see by lind's post that we all have different methods of cleaning and housing our snakes. If you have not seen the pics of lind's snakes you should it is proof that they are all heathy and well cared for. So the choice is yours from person to person husbandry is different but we all strive to achieve the same results healthy animals.



Hip

[MouseKilla]

I agree with that. The one thing everyone seems to share is a desire to provide what we feel is best for our specimens. We often have strong feelings about our chosen methods and that makes for some good, passionate debate. I figure that as long as the keeper is this interested the animal will always do well despite any differences in specific practices. The only animals that we need to worry about, as I see it, are the neglected impulse purchase type. I think most people on this site take husbandry seriously and most likely have beautiful, healthy animals.

[hip]

Man that is so true we all strive to aquire the same means to and end. Thusly we can always learn something new I have beeen keeping for a long long time and I am still learning and i would not have it anyother way Here is a tip Flukers liquid vitamin with beta carrotine I have found is the best of the best for supplements.




Hip

[MouseKilla]

I'll definitely seek that stuff out, certainly sounds worth a try. Hopefully it isn't too exorbitantly priced, pet shops being the shameless, extortionate greed heads that have put the screws to all of us at one time or another. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet on the important stuff though.

[BurmBaroness]

Well, I do not have the popular opinion on this, it seems, but here goes. I have 2 snakes, a BP and corn, that refuse to eat in anything but their enclosures. So they get a peice of newspaper inder the hide boxes, the food is placed in there, and they eat. Everyone else is fed in a feeding tote. Yes, everyone, even the big burm. At over 11ft, 15 inches in girth, and close to 100 lbs, she does nicely in the feed tote. She was fed by a previous owner in the cage, and was hard to take out when I first got her close to a yr ago. I began immediately feeding her in a feed tote, and she settled down wonderfully. She comes out several tiems a week, for excercise in the yard and soaks in the tub. Her feeding response is ENORMOUS. After she has done eating, I leave her in the tote for around an hour. When I want to put her up, my son and I go in, I touch her with the hook, and she knows food time is over. Goes right back in the cage no problem. Seeing her before, and seeing her now, I will continue to feed her in a separate enclosure for as long as possible, hopefully for the rest of her life. Also, taking out everyone else, gives me the perfect time to clean cages, change waterbowls, etc. With so many snakes, it's just not feasible to try to do them a few at a time spread out over different days. They all get to come out regularly for play time, but cleaning time is feeding time..........lol. Unless of course there's an accident, which is then cleaned up right away. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer, I think it's personal preference. As long as your snakes are healthy, and well fed, it doesn't really matter, now does it?