interesting situation

[joe&beth]

Ok, this is the deal. In August of 02 my wife bought what she was told was a baby albino ball. However, after looking a lot of pictures of balls and then looking at pics of albino burmese we have all but decided what we have is a burm. Now the quandary we are in, we both like her temperment and predictability but............. neither one of us wants to work with a giant snake. (she has grown at least 12 - 18 inchs in the past year, currently 43")

We are debating about selling or trading her for something of a similar temperment that max's out around 10'. If I post some pics of her would ya'll be able to identify her? Also, being that it would appear the dealer got it wrong on the specis, odds are the sexing aint right either. Is sexing something we can do? (my wife is a vet tech) OR..... do we take her to the NCCVM? (where she works)

She eats well, appears both healthy and content and we want her to have a long, happy life but, just aren't ready for a 18' house pet. (hey Beth, wheres the dog?) Also, of we end up selling or trading her what are ya'lls recomendations in the 8-10 foot range with similar temperments?

One last question, at what size range do you graduate them from mice to rats?



Thanks,
Joe

[ohh_kristina]

if you want a snake that is in the 8-10 foot range, get a colombian BCI. they are good snakes. I have a baby BCI :D

[Bryce Masuk]

I can identify what you have Its a burm Because if you bought a ball you would be paying big bucks and wouldnt buy it as a pet they are investment snakes.
Doy uo know 100% what sex it is if they told you it was a female ball it could actually be a male albino burm they stay around 9-12 feet

[Jeff_Favelle]

You seriously mixed up a $50 for a $5,000+ snake? Holy moly.

But yeah, if you weren't planning on the Burm, its going to be too much to handle. They get big and they get big fast. And if you aren't into big snakes, it will be no fun. Of course every reptile experience should be fun, so I'd either take it back (and slap the seller silly) or sell it and do some research into getting an animal that suits your needs/capabilities! Best of luck!

JF.

[BurmBaroness]

If you in actuality bought a burm, it must have not eaten very much AT ALL if it only grew 12-18 inches in the last yr. I think that is almost unheard of. I got a neo burm in as a rescue, very sick with RI, which took several different antibiotics to cure, and months of treatment, who didn't eat but maybe 10 times the whole year, who managed to grow to 4ft. You need to post a pic, so we can see the snake in question. I can't imagine a burm not growing any more than that in the first yr, even if it was starved.

[daver676]

This wouldn't possibly be a hoax post, would it?

Dave

[JasonBrennan]

Two things:
1. Post a pic. Balls and burms look nothing alike (VERY easy to tell apart).
2. Jeff, where are you seeing albino burms for $50????????? I know that they have come down in prices over the years, but the cheapest regular price I have seen is in the $100 - $125 range. Please tell us where all the $50 albino burms are hiding!!

[Invictus]

A 43" 1-year old burm? I VERY highly doubt that. They are BORN around 24" if I'm not mistaken, and I've personally never heard of a 1 year old at less than 6 feet. (And I believe many people here have reported their yearling burms at over 10 feet, even for males.) But yes, please post a pic as most of the people here will be able to tell you inside of a microsecond what species it is.

[joe&beth]

I can assure you this is not a hoax post. We are simply new snake owners that have a decision to make. I love my snake! I think it is the coolest (next to my horse) pet I own. It is very easy to deal with and docile enough that my 7 yr old daughter carries it around constantly. I admit...I was uninformed when I made the purchase and believed someone that I didn't know. I should have known better but had hoped the "professionals" would make a better representation (no insult intended toward anyone here).

My biggest inquiry is how to determine ball from burm. Is it the markings? From everything I've seen what I have is a burm. But for all I know there is more to it than just pattern. I plan to take it in to work and have it sexed. If it is a male, do they really max out around 9-12 ft.?

As for feeding, my snake has never missed a meal. I may have screwed up and not been feeding enough. When I realized that after one meal it was looking for another I bumped it to two and so on. All part of the learning process. Thankfully, my snake never got too thin, just a little hungry. I'm not really into powerfeeding anyway. It has actually grown closer to 2.5 ft than the number that was earlier posted. BTW, at 3.5 ft. is it time to move on to rats?

Thanks for any input,

Beth

[JeffT]

Wow that sucks. Well how much did you pay for him/her? A burm is very cheap, 50-125 but an albino ball python is about $5000.
Do you have any pics of the snake?

[BurmBaroness]

I still believe it is a ball, tho a pic would help. Burms and balls have totally different shaped heads, as well as markings. The idea of a burm only growing 2.5 ft in the first yr is still pretty ridiculous sounding to me(no offense), unless it was very sick/not eating. Burms with proper feeding grow 6-8 ft their first yr, with normal, NOT powerfeeding. Post a pic, we'll be able to tell right away what kind of snake you have.

BTW, if it IS a burm, and it's not been getting rats, it IS thin. And probably VERY hungry. Ball pythons are encouraged to take rat pups usually by the time they are big enough to eat an adult mouse, which is usually right from birth. A burm is usually started on rats right away.

[Gareth]

wow sounds weard to me my dads ball python is 1 yr old (male) and is 39 inches and my 1 yr old Male burm is 106 inches must be a small burm or a good size yearling ball,

[Wrath]

post pics for ID

[Jeff_Favelle]

2. Jeff, where are you seeing albino burms for $50????????? I know that they have come down in prices over the years, but the cheapest regular price I have seen is in the $100 - $125 range. Please tell us where all the $50 albino burms are hiding!!

Are you serious? I am seeing them for $50 CANADIAN now! That's like $35 US!! Check the queensnake.ca classifieds or the US python classifieds. They are everywhere.

[matrix1829]

are u sure it is a burm, she should of grown alot more than a foot in the pas year. in the first year it should have reached a good 6-7 feet long!!!!!!!

[JasonBrennan]

Are you serious? I am seeing them for $50 CANADIAN now! That's like $35 US!! Check the queensnake.ca classifieds or the US python classifieds. They are everywhere.

I am dead serious! I see normal burms for the prices you are talking about, but not ALBINO burms (as in what this thread is about). I am def going to look (never heard of queensnake.ca before)...I will buy a boat load of albino burms for $35 US!!!

[joe&beth]

Originally posted by Invictus
A 43" 1-year old burm? I VERY highly doubt that. They are BORN around 24" if I'm not mistaken, and I've personally never heard of a 1 year old at less than 6 feet. (And I believe many people here have reported their yearling burms at over 10 feet, even for males.) But yes, please post a pic as most of the people here will be able to tell you inside of a microsecond what species it is.

Ok, well that will happen around 7:30 am EST tommrow, the pics that is. The snake was not measured after purchase and has never given any indication or signs of ill health. She (yep, I was told it was a she and its now a habit) has always eaten well and been normal in every way. The pics are 2 days after a shed and 1 day since a feeding. She has been getting 2 full grown mice a week for the last 6 months or so. I have noticed her skin could "fit tighter" but, that look goes away a week or so after a shed. This snake was nowhere near 24" upon purchase, more in the 18" range. i have already suggested a 3 mouse feeding but, depending on prevailing opinion it might be a 2 fuzzy rat feeding instead.

Now, on to the next question, if it is a burm and this is abnormal growth, what do we do about it? Also if this was a baby when purchased (albeit a small one too) is 18 or so inchs in a year that far off base? I dunno, thats one of the reasons I'm here asking. Now, if this a albino ball then what? Or perhaps it is some sort of a cross. Anyway, the pics will be up in the AM provided the server will accept them. I refuse to attempt to post pics on a dial connection. I'm just not that patient.


Thanks,
Joe

[BurmBaroness]

If the snake was 18" at brith, then it is most likely a BP. Burms are usually bigger than that. If it is a burm, and the growth is abnormal, it's due to lack of proper diet. A corected diet will put weight on and help growth, but the burm will take longer to reach the maximum potential it has. Yes, 18 inches is pretty off-base for a baby burm. I appropriately sized prey item is MUCH better than 2-3 smaller items, as far as the snake's digestive system goes. You still haven't said what you paid for the animal, but not all albino BP's are $5000. I have seen them for less than half that. Also could have been a screw up at the pet store, if you got it at a pet store, altho I'm sure someone got fired over that one. The only time I have ever seen a snake with "loose" skin is just before shed, or when it is dehydrated.

[joe&beth]

Ok, well, the snake was bought at the exotic show in Raleigh NC last August. My wife gave $100.00 for her and like I said she was between 14-18 inch. she was told it was a ball (of course after reading all the replys about albino balls I'm even more inclined to think burm) However thats a moot point, what would you think to be a "appropriatly sized" for one this size?


Thanks,
Joe

[BurmBaroness]

For a burm? Between 5-8 ft. If it truly is a burm, I'd be really interested in knowing the dealer/breeder you bought it from, as they need to be shown to be dishonest. Also, if it's truly a burm, and it was only 14-18 inches at birth, it could be likely that the animal was very small at birth. Still, a pic would help. BTW, if it's truly an albino ball python, you got a SWEET deal............lol

[Invictus]

Burm OR Ball, you should really be upping the meals. We give our 4 foot Miami corn 2 adult mice per week. That's an appropriate meal for a corn. NOT for a BP or a Burm.

[ohh_kristina]

I agree with Invictus. I feed my yearling ball python large rats, and he takes them easily. A yearling burm would probably be on small/medium rabbits, or a large if you like to feed big meals :) Definately post pictures! I'm anxious to see what it turns out to be. I think it's a ball, i mean..a burm just can't be that small at a year.

[T.O-SK8TER]

Bryce-
A male burm will be much bigger than what you claim! The average is about 12-17 feet for a male, female, 15-20 feet.

[joe&beth]

Ok, this is the deal, it appears I wasted time by taking pictures as the 4 mb card will not read. :-( I tested the other card and its fine so.... I'll take more tonite.



Thanks,
Joe

[BurmBaroness]

Was just wondering if you were able to get pics? If this is a burm, then the seller needs to be responsible for either a refund, or making it right with the animal you THOUGHT you were getting. I'd like to not deal with this person/breeder, so if you can, post who you bought the snake from as a warning. I live in the Raleigh area, and attend the shows there.

[joe&beth]

Joe is still working on getting some pics. He forgot to bring the camera home last night and he is at a meeting tonight. I will bug him to get it here tomorrow. Sorry for the delay.

I want to thank everyone for their input. As I kept reading the posts I progressively became more angry with myself for not learning this information earlier. I was taking advice from locals who apparently don't know enough about pythons. I started my snake on rats yesterday. It was kinda hard to watch it go down. Man, what a tight fit! But the snake seems content.

As for the seller...I can't give you the name. I kept their card for a couple of months. After concluding that I did not have a sick snake I lost track of the information. I don't remember their name. I can tell you that they were not local to Raleigh. Trust me, I looked for them last weekend and never did find them. I wonder if there is a reason for that! I paid $100 for the snake. I would love to have them right their wrong but a lot of the blame lies on me. I have learned a lot of dos and don'ts in the last couple of days. I'm just thankful that my snake is alive and soon to be much healthier!

A big thanks to all who helped!

Beth

[BurmBaroness]

Hey! I wish I'd know you were at the show. Soem friends and I went down for the weekend. It would have been nice to meet someone from here. Too bad you don't remember who it was, tho. Would have been a good one to post on the BOI.

[Mike177]

ok this is an albino ball python,
http://www.boabasement.com/page/mabp001.jpg
this is a normal ball python
http://www.molekings.com/images/animals/jungle_ball_001.jpg

an easy way to identify a ball python if you are not used to looking at snakes is by the shape of there head and by their heat receptors.

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/1727snoleft_1_.JPG

dont pay attention to the fact that the snake is completely white.

now here are some pics of burms,

here is an albino burm
http://nettleton.crsc.k12.ar.us/~jhudspeth/dakota2.jpg

now here are the heat receptors on a burm, notice they are smaller and there are less of them,
http://images.webshots.com/ProThumbs/63/18263_wallpaper280.jpg

well i hope this helps cuz it took me like 20 min, lol

good luck with your new snake,
MiKe

[Gareth]

interesting

[joe&beth]

Ok, I finally got the damn camera to keep the pics. (apparently I've got a bad card)

Any way here is a attempt to post the first one.


Joe

[joe&beth]

Pic 2

[joe&beth]

pic3

[marisa]

Albino Burmese

Marisa

[mark129er]

I agree, a nice albino burm

[operation_sssss]

Look like an albino burm to me

Sorry did not kno others had already posted did not mean to jump on the wagon there

[joe&beth]

Thats what I figured. Now, the next question..... does she looked starved or underfed? Aterall there has been much debate about her growth over the last year.



Joe

[reverendsterlin]

thats one way to go from a great $5000 5-6ft albino ball to a giant albino burm real quick

[reverendsterlin]

a year old burm that isn't able to take rabbits I think might be considered small.

[joe&beth]

Originally posted by reverendsterlin
thats one way to go from a great $5000 5-6ft albino ball to a giant albino burm real quick


Yeah, well ya get what ya pay for. (she was $100.00 and not knowing any better............ )


I know one thing for sure, we will not be purchasing anything else for that dealer.

Now its up to my wife as to if she'll keep her or look at trading or selling her. We've talked about a red tail or something that maxs around 9-11 feet. But it not easy as the snake is a real sweetheart tempermant wise.




Joe

[reverendsterlin]

I wish you the best Joe, but yeah boost up those feedings something 2X+ the size of their head for a meal is pretty common and being young and small she will probably want regular on top of that (my large boas only munch every 3-4 weeks on big rabbits or multiple cavys) but will give you a break by shedding often.

[joe&beth]

I have one last question and I will let this thread die. Since I have started feeding my snake rats (first one Wed) how often should I feed? Should I go to twice a week to make up for lost time or not overwhelm the digestive system and stick to once a week? It had just eaten two mice last weekend then folowed with the rat 4 days later. I have not seen any feces yet so am wondering if I should let it unload some before I offer more food. Any opinions?

BTW, Burm Baroness, it would be nice to meet some other snake fanciers in this area. Maybe we can get together at the next show in spring? Or sooner?

Take care everyone and thanks for all the help!

Beth

[joe&beth]

BTW, thanks Mike for all the good pics!


Beth

[Jayson]

Burmese pythons are eating machines, you should be feeding a small rabbit rather then mice every feeding.
Would probably take 20 mice to fill a 4ft burm.
Jason

[reverendsterlin]

I would suggest a 2-3 rat single feeding about every 7 days but it could be extended to maybe 10 days if it seems to regularly be a 3 rat feeding.

[burmer]

I would do 2 rats every 4-5 days for a little while just to bulk it up. Then go to one large rat a week when it has some more bulk to it.

[Bryce Masuk]

To-skater only W/c Burms atain that size because of line breeding because people breed for color not size. females are usually 14-17 feet but usually more in the middle range But they can attain larger sizes males are usually 9-13 or so wild caught burms are a different story though

[reptilesalonica]

I would suggest you to sell or trade the snake since as you (sincerely) admit that you are not ready to have a burmese python, which is totaly acceptable and important from you to say so. You could trade it with a normal Ball python, Boa constr. imperator or if you want something more colorful, try a Brazilian rainbow boa. Advise, you can ask everyone about everything here in ssnakess. As you see, we all want to help each other.
By doing a search on Google (images), next time you will be sure that an albino Ball python is not an albino burmese :)
Best of luck to you and your snake.
~Greg~

[JasonBrennan]

A trade is in the works right now.

[BurmBaroness]

It would be great to meet you guys in person. It is nice looking burm. I would feed one appropriately sized rat every 6 days, because you don't want to overdo and cause stress on her digestive system. I can understand not being ready for a burm, they are a HUGE responsibility, in more ways than one. I personally love mine, and don't think I could bear to part with her........lol

[joe&beth]

LOL, like I said at the begining of this "Hey Beth, wheres the dog?" Neither of us are prepared for a giant, we have a trade in the works for a cute Boa, just gotta work out the final details.


Meeting fanciers and gaining knowledge is important to us, the knowledge is more important to me than anything.

Hey Jason, RC sexed it this weekend and it is a female. (she took it well, with her normal "ok fine" additude)

So far I find this forum most helpful and enjoy the debate and chance to learn more about snakes in general.



Joe

[KingFfaj]

thats good to hear;)
a word of advise, dont trust any body in the reptile pet trade, you'll find most breeders know what there talking about but hear in england most of the exotic pet shops are not up to scratch. Out of the 7 shops i visit, theres only two that i trust to buy from and trust the info they give me, 4 of the others have bad quality animals being kept in poor condisions and the other 1 only sells dead rodents (good though, but no reptile experts) 2 out of 7 is diaboicall:)
As if thats not bad enough, i go and read about a burm being sold as a ball, a snake that could actually kill a grown man! *shakes head*
any way, good luck and be carfull;)

[JasonBrennan]

joe&beth,
I have sent you several emails....are you not recieving them? I have one other person that seems to be not recieving emails from me, so I am not sure if there is a problem with my email or what....I replied to your email today, but figured you would def see this here (that I was trying to contact you).

[joe&beth]

Jason,

Yes, I have been sending you emails. There must be a problem. I got your number on the last one you sent and will try to call you Friday eve or this weekend.

Thanks,

Beth