Oh Boy!?!

[Bartman]

I woke up today and saw my tortoise walking around like usual but when i picked him up i noticed a piece of his shell is HANGING off. Its a very thin layer of shell and underneath looks sort of like intestines..obviously not his but the pattern looks like little lines and things..i have some pics but there a little blury..is this normal?!?!?!? and what am i supposed to do???

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/1953picture_77.jpg

right where the middle of the three fingers is where the piece is
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/1953picture_6.jpg

im lifting the little piece slightly on this one.......
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/1953picture_5.jpg

[enso]

Vet asap.

[Steele]

I have no clue but would recomend a trip to the vet. Keep us posted

[johnnym1972]

Where did you get the Tortoise from, and how long ago did you get it? That is a very deep compression fracture, that usually occurs when a large shipment of wild caught Tortoises are packed together for shipping in an unsafe way. That wound needs to be thoroughly cleaned, debrided of any necrotic tissue, and set with a fibreglass mesh cast. The Tortoise will also need to be put on antibiotics to prevent infection, so it is obvious that you only have one option. You need to find a Veterinarian that specializes in Turtles/Tortoises, or at the very least Reptiles in general. You can email me if you need any further information, and please let us know how you and your Tortoise make out. Good luck, Johnny.

[Bartman]

i found a reptile specialist over the internet and the only one near me but it was recomended by another vet so its probably very good....i will tell them exactly what you said and will make the fix him up nicely..i will take him this sunday..do you think he can last for a day?

[Bartman]

and i bought the tortoise from someone on THIS site...it looked perfectly fine when i first got it and i have had it for about 2 weeks. Ed_ is the member that sold it to me but i cant get reach of him anymore so i guess he knew it was cracked and thats why he sold it....

[Bartman]

oh and how much around do you think a procedure like that would cost..canadian...i only have like 60 bucks but if i NEED i can get more............

[red bootz]

You've had him for two weeks and you didn't notice THAT?
I second johnnyM. Once a bad infection sets in his chances of recovery are greatly decreased. A vet ASAP. And keep him paper towels in the meantime. Plus, you'll definitely need more than 60 bucks....Good Luck.

[Bartman]

no i had him for 2 weeks and just now the piece is hanging off

[Bartman]

ive put him on paper towl and im taking him to the vet either tomorrow or the day after...i HOPE to god its nothing toooo serious but i dont care how much money i ship out i am NOT letting him die...i love him tooooooooooo much..thanks everyone for any help you could have given me and ill keep you posted Steele :( :(

[Nic]

Too serious?! Dude hospital ASAP! Keep it clean and wrapped tight! Good Luck man.

[icex19]

Good luck

[Bartman]

thanks

[johnnym1972]

Hey Adam, I really hope that you are able to find a good vet, but realistically it will probably cost $200 - $300 for the entire treatment. If you have any trouble finding a vet, or enough money, just try to keep the fracture clean until you are able to get it to a vet, but don't use too much peroxide, since it causes tissue destruction. Betadine works really well, and you can apply it with a cotton swab like a Q-Tip. I also talked to a friend that used the new crazy glue gel formula on a similar fracture with great success, but he had some help with the re-alignment of the shell pieces. Just remember, crazy glue was used for all types of wounds in the big wars, and it is still used in first aid kits worldwide, so it could be a cost effective solution if there is no sign of serious infection. Just make sure that you use a brand new tube, and try to keep everything as clean as possible. Also, try to keep your Tortoise nice and warm, about 85 - 88 degrees is optimal, and also well hydrated. He will heal much quicker and deal with infection much better if he is kept warmer than usual and well hydrated. Sorry it took me so long to post again, but I wasn't available until just now. Good luck, Johnny.

[johnnym1972]

Hey Adam, I forgot to respond about the JERK that sold you a sick Tortoise, but won't reply to you when you try to get ahold of him AFTER he took your money. I hate to say it, but if you had bought your Tortoise from a reputable breeder, like me or my friends, you would not have these problems. Not only would you recieve a replacement Tortoise, free of charge. But you would also be assured that the injured Tortoise would recieve all of the medical attention that it needs, without leaving you stuck with the vet bill. Here's a 100% true story of how things went for me, when something was wrong with some Tortoises that I bought. I bought a pair of "Sri Lankan" Indian Star Tortoises (Geochelon Elegans) from a reputable breeder over the internet, and when they arrived, the male had RNS - (runny nose syndrome). The breeder not only paid all of the shipping to fly them back across the country, but he also prepaid the shipping fo fly the replacement pair back!!! He is a perfect example of a caring, responsible breeder and a first class animal lover. I just wanted to share that with all of you, take care. Johnny.

[Doug]

I think that the seller should take back the tortoise and give you a refund.
But don't be too hard on him, if you didn't see tha damage for two weeks he couldn't have seen it either.

[Bartman]

no right when i got him i noticed right where the carapace and the plastron meet there was a slight crack but it was very small and i thought it was nothing and was supposed to be there because he said it is in perfect health and i have never owneed a tortoise befre that so i wouldnt know the diff.

[Turtle Matt]

Its not as serious as you all are saying,it is shell rot which can be cured by removing all of the rotted tissue and applying betadyne. More serious cases can be assisted with the use of baytril (injected).
Matt

[Bartman]

could you get betadyne at like shoppers or something?

[johnnym1972]

That is NOT shell rot on his Tortoise!! Shell rot exhibits pronounced areas of raised, necrotic tissue that smells like rotting flesh and peels away in layers and chunks. If you look at the picture closely, you can clearly see the origin point of the fracture and the termination point. You should still try to go the Vet with your Tortoise Adam, if you get the cash together that is. That way you will see that it definitely IS a fracture and NOT shell rot!! Take care, Johnny.

[Bartman]

Ok so on tuesday, since everything is closed monday, im gonna go to the vet and see what the problem is. If i can fix it myself than i will clean it out and stick it back together unless the vet says its to serious to take chances..do you think it will really cost 300 bucks?? I contacted the person who sold me the tort and there was a huge misunderstanding..when i sent him PM's i sent it to the wrong person so who knows what happened..i got contact with him and he was very nice about taking back the tort but i dont know if i wanna do that because im already attached...im gonna see what we can do..maybe Ed_ knows what to do to fix it..we'll see. thanks johnnym for ur help. and do you think i could use the crazy glue my mom uses for her nails? She does nails and the glue she uses to stick the nail on the real nail is VERY strong..its crazy glue at its best but do you think its ok to use on the tort after i clean the area? right now temporaroly i have it taped up so he doesnt drag the piece on the paper and hurt himself.

[Turtle Matt]

Well,as you can see in his last photo, he IS in fact peeling part of the tortoises shell off, and there are 2 forms of shell rot, the wet form that Johnny describes as well as a second "dry" form that you must not be aware of...I would still take it to the vet,and let us know what it is.
Matt

[Bartman]

its not peeling away i was just lifting the piece that was disconected from the shell.

[johnnym1972]

Hey Matt, the dry form of shell rot exhibits pronounced areas of white bone like material in the affected area as well as peeling of the top, or "cutaneous" layers of the shell!!! Do you still think that I don't know what I'm talking about , or that I'm not aware of the obvious?!?! You should have quit while you were ahead Matt, because now you just look like an uninformed idiot who wants to argue about things that he obviously doesn't understand!!! You should go back to the library and re-read all of the cheesy Barron's books that you quote your so called "experience" from!!

Hey Adam, as far as the glue goes, I would just shell out the $5.00 for a new tube of the Gel formula so that you don't have to worry about cross contamination of the glue from other sources. The gel formula is a lot easier to use anyway, since it doesn't run and you only need a couple of tiny drops to do the trick.
Take care, Johnny.

[zhiv9]

Hey Adam, $200, is not an unusual bill at an exotic animal vet, you pay more for specialized knowledge. Being inexperience it would probably be a good idea to take it to the vet so that you can observe what he does, then should something like this happen in the future you could treat it yourself.
I agree with johnny this not simply shell rot. I prefer to use iodine over peroxide; while it does stain the area orange, it is still the better disinfectant. You could also apply one of the triple antibiotic ointments, like Polysporin triple till you get him to the vet. I wouldn't seal it with crazy glue etc, until you know that there is no necrotic tissue or infection.

HTH

[Bartman]

ive had a piece of tape over it like i said before and today i took it off and some edges of the shell seem to be conecting back together. I lifted the piece again and cleaned out the area but with no liquid just brushed away the little bits of sand i had him on before i saw this..now hes on towel paper. Where do i get all these chemical things you guys are talking about? could i get them at a shoppers drugmart or something like that? and where do i get that gel glue johnny?

[johnnym1972]

Hello Adam, you can get Betadine or Iodine at most drug stores, like Shoppers Drug Mart. They are both used as a topical disinfectant. The gel formula crazy glue is available at Canadian Tire, and possibly also at Shoppers Drug Mart. Also, if it is already healing a bit, that is a good sign that there might not be any infection present. If you want to call me, even collect, them email me @ JohnnyM72@netscape.net and I can give you my phone number. I just don't want to post it on this thread.
Take care, Johnny.

[Bartman]

thanks for askin me to call but i only have one more quick question..so ill buy the betadine or iodine and put it on a q tip and rub the area under the piece. Than i put the gel glue on the edges of the shell to piece it back together..i know when its alligned because it almost snaps back into place.. Do you know what the gel formula is called or what i should ask for when i got to canadian tire? Or maybe you know the company that makes the glue? thanks again for ur help

[johnnym1972]

Hello Adam, it's called "Instant Crazy Glue Advanced Formula Gel" It comes in a small tube, and is made by Elmer's Glue Product's Canada. I hope that this helps you with your dilemma, and don't hesitate to contact me if you still need help. Take care, Johnny.

[Bartman]

Ok so how i said on the post before to apply it is the correct way?

[Bartman]

ok so i met up with ed_ and he gave me a full switch for a female russian tort and he said he would repair my old torts shell and if i want in the near future i could buy it off him. Even after the whole mix up he was still nice enough to drive all the way down here and make the trade back..and he was even nice enough to give me a lift home :) anyways i have my new female tort and she is beutiful!!! thanks again ed

[johnnym1972]

Hello Adam, you only need a couple of drops for the entire fractured area, and don't try to spread it around with the tip because it won't bond as well. After you clean the area with the Betadine, let it dry for about 10-15 minutes. Then you just put a couple of drops, say one every cm along the fracture and hold it tight together for 30 seconds. Let it dry for about a half hour, and then re-clean the area around the wound with the Betadine to prevent infection. Try to keep the area clean and repeat the cleaning with the Betadine every 8-12 hours for 3-5 days. After that, he should be good as new. If you see any discharge, or smell anything weird, post again, and I'll help you out. Sorry it took me so long to respond, I wasn't available until just now. Good luck and take care, Johnny.

[Bartman]

thanks again for all that but i guess i posted the last thing a little bit before you so you didnt see that i got a new one :P but thanks sooo much for trying to help me

[johnnym1972]

Hello Adam, it seems that I took too long to get back to you, and I hadn't yet noticed your new post so I posted instructions anyway. That is awesome that he took it back, and definitely cool that he will treat the wound. As long as you are happy with the new Tortoise, this has been a happy ending of sorts. Please keep us updated on your new arrival, and any news about the injured one would be cool also.
Take care, Johnny.

[Bartman]

sure will and again thanks for ur help.