Are they all jerks?

[MouseKilla]

Just curious if anyone has a king that isn't a miserable SOB. I have a eastern that I bought as a sub adult and he has always been an unmanagable, biting, snapping jerk. Can't seem to tame him, he bites me at nearly every opportunity and sometimes strikes at me through the glass of his enclosure, bashing his own face repeatedly. He has a particular hatred for me personally it seems but I'm the only one who dares to get near him. I also have a 50/50 Cal king that looks really cool that I have had since he was a hatchling. This guy was docile at first but it seems the bigger he gets the more high strung he becomes. He has become untrustworthy and seems to bite for no reason while being handled. I've been trying to make sure that I handle him more frequently to keep him accostomed to it and am sure to wash my hands to make sure I don't have any provocative scents on me (my other snakes, the cat, prey animals). What I'm wondering is if it is just in their genes to be belligerent.

[marisa]

They aren't all jerks. I have a cal king that is a TOTAL baby and I allow my roomates 7 year old to hold him. BUT this is not the same king as yours, and my cal king lived in a pet store for a year. People were obviously constantly asking to handle him and I believe this gave him a good start on his friendly attitude.

Jose my Mexican Black king is NUTS and I have tried all the tricks for two years now, nothing helps. But hey, the bitey crazy ones are the most fun!

Marisa

[Wrath]

But hey, the bitey crazy ones are the most fun!

That's hilarious. It sounds like a bumpersticker or a slogan or something.

[Pookie]

I've had my cal king for about 6 years now! Ever since i got her she pee's on me when i pick her up. She seems more scared than angry! I'm not sure what to tell ya!

[marisa]

Wrath- Gotta car? I will sell this to you for 5 bucks. LMAO:

<img src="http://members.rogers.com/mattl/bite.jpg">

HAHAHA

Marisa

[MouseKilla]

My 6 yr old daughter still loves to handle the little guy that has only recently become bitey. She's been bitten a couple of times now and seems to mind less than I do. The other, totally belligerent one is a favorite of most of our guests cuz he likes to put on a show instead of just hiding out or staring blankly. I don't have any problem with this tendency (though my wife is terrified of him) I just wondered if they were all like this.

[vanderkm]

Several of our Cal kings have been very active but none have been aggressive except that they have a high prey drive and like to think everything might be food. We use a hook to touch snakes before picking them up and find that once these guys know they are being picked up and not fed, they are not interested in biting. One Cal King is totally reliable and very calm - she will play dead if you put her on her back and roll her in a coil - she just stays that way. Our albino is more active than the coastal phases have been and likes to wrap his prey up in 4-5 coils instead of just eating it, but he has never bitten or musked.

Our Mexican black king is one of our most dependable snakes - was active as a young one, but settled into calm temperament as an adult and I would rank him as very unlikely to bite.

Our variable kings are the calmest and sweetest personalities of the kings - not hyper to hold, tend to sit still rather than cruise when picked up and would virtually never bite - but still strong food drive. They are really an under-appreciated kingsnake - very attractive and great personality.

We had a brooksi Florida king that was very shy, reclusive but not aggressive.

mary v.

[MouseKilla]

Our cal can be picked up, unlike our eastern who is nuts. You may be on to something about the feeding response, our cal would eat everyday if we let him. He is nearly in perpetual motion, tearing his cage up day and night, never still. Both kings we have are greedy eaters. They seem to go blind when they know there is even food in the room. Ironically, this makes them clumsy hunters I find. They will chase prey around, mouths gaping, missing and snapping and rattling their tails. It's kind of funny to watch. When I feed pre-killed they seem to want to double kill it and coil and roll with it for several minutes.

[jay76]

My mex mex is a little suck... he's never even snapped at me and loves to coil on my fingers. Even though he was from a pet store he wasn't handled much, since he spent all day buried (worked to my advantage... no one else saw how what a great snake he is ha ha). Try using a hook like Mary suggested... you might get laughed at for buying a hook that small - I sure would at my lps, but they're just nuts there - but if it works it works, right? :)

[MouseKilla]

well I have a makeshift hook that I use just for my eastern king, there's usually no other way to take him out without being bitten and he never relaxes enough to handle. My cal is easy to pick up but may just suddenly decide he wants to eat one of your fingers. Not that it hurts or anything but my daughter has what you could call an advanced vocabulary for a 6 yr old though because of seeing the snake bite me and hearing me shout obsenities at it. She thinks it's hillarious. She is very mellow about it when he gets her. "Daddy, Beetlegeus is biting me." Strange snake, strange kid, what can I say?

[Wraith]

My cali is very easy to handle and has never bitten me. Some times I don't think he would know how (he's not the brightest hunter I have ever seen). He is in constant motion and always renovating his tank and he eats like a pig.

[Invictus]

We have a newborn lavender CalKing, and it's still kinda hard to say what his personality will be like. He musks, is high strung, and ALWAYS on the move, but that's kind of expected from a baby. I'm hoping he mellows out. But, he's never bitten. (I should be careful what I say on here though... I said my blue beauty has never bitten me in a thread, and guess what she did yesterday?)

[MouseKilla]

what exactly is a blue beauty? another king?

[Andy_G]

My king used to be nuts but now she's pretty good for handling and very similar to a corn snake aside from her feeding response. How often do you feed your kings, well fed kings tend to be a small amount less strung and a bit less bitey.

[MouseKilla]

The frequency of the feedings varies but if anything they're overfed, especially the younger cal. He's only big enough to just get a rat pinky into his mouth but he'll eat 6 or 7 of them, look like a striped sausage and still be looking for more, I just have to cut him off. Both my kings are greedy but the younger one is like a garbage disposal. He seems to get hungrier and more twitchy, not to mention bigger, all the time. The older one cannot be handled and I don't mind that but the little guy is my daughter's favourite so I'm hoping he doesn't go that way too.

[Jmail324]

I have a arizona mountain king, and she's the most docile snake I've ever had. She's never even gotten into a defensive posture, not even when she was a hatchling. I guess its just the luck of the draw.

[Invictus]

Originally posted by MouseKilla
what exactly is a blue beauty? another king?

Vietnamese Blue Beauty - it's an Asian ratsnake. They are usually known for their foul tempers. I was merely alluding to the point that every time I say my snakes have never bitten me, that's precisely what they do the next time I handle them. I think they are spying on me....

[TheRedDragon]

Hah hah hah Invictus, you DID speak too soon, because low and behold, the Lav Cal King finally nipped ya! *LOL* :p

[Invictus]

Yeah... little *******. ;)

[RaVeNo888o]

my cal king is always good, unless he is hungry or something, never been bitten by him, and he only tried once, but that was way back

[MouseKilla]

Inv. So it's not a king but it's crazy enough to be mistaken for one? sounds like a cool snake, got pics? I think the concensus is that while not all kings are totally unmanagable they are nothing like a BP. Although I have seen 1 snappy ball but I've never even heard of another. Maybe I'll start a BP thread called "are they all chickensh*t?"

[jwsporty]

I'm curious Mousekilla,

You initially stated you got the Eastern as a subadult, and you are feeding it pinkies. That may be your problem. Pinkies are like beer nuts to a snake. Why not try something with some meat on it. Most of my guys that are 02 stock are eating large hoppers or small adults and they can and will normally take two at a sitting. Don't underestimate their capabilities to consume large food items...just ask Invictus..;)
I am also feeding on a 5-6 day schedule instead of a 7-10 and that has definitely calmed down my adult Cal King males. They were both biters at first.

However if this doesn't work for ya, let me know and I 'll buy him off ya...I love a challenge.. ;)


Invictus: lmao..Never say never... :p

[MouseKilla]

JWS, sorry, I ramble on too long in these posts and it can get confusing. I'm feeding rat pinks to my little 50/50 cal, nothing bigger will fit in his mouth so he'll eat 6-8 of them. The Eastern is now an adult and feeds on small or medium rats. Both are pigs so I feed them till they look like they can't do anything but lay straight and look like stuffed sausages.

[jwsporty]

MouseKilla,

LMAO, glad you cleared that up..;)

Jim

[Linds]

Originally posted by MouseKilla
I'm feeding rat pinks to my little 50/50 cal, nothing bigger will fit in his mouth so he'll eat 6-8 of them. The Eastern is now an adult and feeds on small or medium rats. Both are pigs so I feed them till they look like they can't do anything but lay straight and look like stuffed sausages.

Eep. 6-8 pinks per meal??? If it's too big to fit in the snakes mouth, do you not think its too large for the snakes system??? IMHO its not healthy to fill a snake to that capacity. In the wild they sure don't pack themself so full they can't move :confused:

[TheRedDragon]

<b> Mousekilla - </b> Here's a pic of a Vietnamese Blue Beauty for you. This one is fairly alright tempermant wise. A bit jumpy still, but hasn't bitten me, has nipped Invictus though. :p The other one we have is too psycho to get a decent pic of, he's already drawn blood from me and chased me around the room. *LOL*



http://www.angelfire.com/myband/slaughter/snakes/Furious01.jpg

[Invictus]

I would just like to add that I'm beginning to side with MouseKilla on this one.

I just brought home 2 milks and an Albino CalKing. The milks were ok, but the CalKing fricken flew out of the rubbermaid and bit me HARD. I bled like a god damn stuck pig. It was throbbing for about 1/2 hour afterward. I'm not talking a warning shot here... the S.O.B. BIT, and bit HARD. Oh, I hope my Lavender CalKing calms down... right now he musks a lot.

[jwsporty]

Nice VBB Invictus, I'm looking forward to mine getting bigger. Have to take him out today and see if I can avoid getting tagged.;)

[marisa]

I would think that if the cal king can eat 6-8 pinkies, than it can eat fuzzies....the mouths may be smaller but a snake can still take something that is as large as its widest point, or larger with ease. A move to fuzzies would not only fill the snake up easier but they are way better than pinkies when it comes to nutrition.

Some of my corns that are one month old will be moving to fuzzies very soon. Their heads are obviously not this large, but their bodies are and they will take them down no problem.

Marisa

[MouseKilla]

Invictus,

I'm tellin ya man, something about those kings... however I must say that my one totally belligerent snake is one of the most fun for that reason. He might not be the most exotic or colourful but man he acts like a snake. The animal that gives people nightmares. I have nicknamed him "Manson" cuz he is just out to kill me. I swear if he could talk he'd be raving and jabbering like a lunatic "I'm not the killer man, I'll tell you who the goddam killer is man, America's the killer man, America killed Princess Diana, America's killin you right now and you're too stupid to see it man..." bite, snap, hiss...BTW That VBB is really cool, never seen one before, that pattern is really unusual looking

Marisa,
I might be a little over cautious with him because when I got him, as a neonate, the first time I fed him I tried giving him the smallest pink I could find because he was so small. He snapped at it instantly and began swallowing it. The problem was that it was still too big. He got it down to the front legs/ shoulder area and couldn't take any more. It was a stretch just getting the head in for him and it got to the point where he realized he couldn't get it down. He tried to spit it back out but it seemed to be stuck. I was watching all this and got worried that he would hurt himself in the struggle to dislodge it. I ended up having to pick him and the prey up and cutting the mouse's head off. He happily swallowed that and wanted more, he ended up eating pinky heads for a little while, the rest of the mice were donated to our corn snake who didn't seem to mind that they were without heads. Fuzzies aren't far off for him but I'd rather load him up with the small ones than deal with regurgitations.

[Invictus]

Originally posted by MouseKilla
BTW That VBB is really cool, never seen one before, that pattern is really unusual looking


You can have it for a hundred bucks plus shipping if you want a REAL challenging, belligerent snake. :D

[TheRedDragon]

*LOL* Invictus, don't butter up the snake now, the thing is a friggin' PSYCHO! *L*

[MouseKilla]

hmmm very tempting... If I thought it would get by the Keeper of the Pursestrings...I would love to say yes to that but I already spent my birthday present at the TO show last weekend so I doubt I'd get away with buying another right now. Of course that might change if I show her the pictures and leave out the part about it being a mean MF. Half the animals we have are here because she fell in love with them and couldn't resist. Can I put it on my Brick card and DO NOT PAY till 2005? hahaha!

[Invictus]

LOL.. sorry, I only take Diner's Club. :D

I'm kidding anyway. He's a belligerent little raging psychopath, but he's MY belligerent little raging psychopath. If I do manage to tame him, it'll be the biggest accomplishment of my life. If I don't, well.... I'll have an attack snake. I'll be able to put "Guard Snake On Duty" signs on my front door. :)

[MouseKilla]

Yeah I know what you mean, I've tried handling "Manson" and it's no use. The couple of times I've managed to Irwin him out without a hook he turns into a Goddamn eel, wiggling and thrashing and snapping. I keep trying but I think it's personal now and he'll likely never mellow. He hates me specifically. Even with 2 or 3 people near the cage he seems honed in on me, of course I'm the one bothering him all the time by cleaning his cage. Still, I love hearing him do his rattle snake impression with the tail and watching him rear up and snap at me through the glass. I don't have to look for signs of life when I check on him like I do with some of the others.

[TheRedDragon]

Somehow, Invictus and I have managed to freehandle the psychopath two nights in a row. I wonder if he's actually mellowed out, or just saving his energy to plot new ways to injure us. *L*

[MouseKilla]

If your hatefull little ******* is anything like mine he's only lulling you into a false sense of security. Get himself comfortable in my hands, wait till I've calmed down and start to forget. Forget that he's been out to kill me from the day I got him. He's learned I won't get close enough while he hisses and snaps so he's plotted against me, using my own ego to his advantage. Just when I begin do feel like I'm at one with serpent, hell at one with nature itself, SNAP!! Suddenly I've got a goddamn snake hanging from the end of my nose or the piece of skin between the thumb and index finger. I'm sure that in some snake laguage that human ears aren't able to hear he's cursing me through his clamped jaw and mouthfull of my flesh. YOU STUPID M***** F***ER! I TOLD YOU! I TOLD YOU I'D KILL YOU DIDN'T I YOU F***?!!

[TheRedDragon]

*LOL* My thoughts exactly. I'll betcha the little ***** is going to try and take my hand off sometime soon, because he's most likely sensed that I'm not scared of him anymore. So, he'll chase me around the room snapping at me soon going, "Fear me b!tch! Muah hah hah!" *L*

[MouseKilla]

Yup, thank Christ they don't have hands or they'd be out of their cages and creeping up on you bearing knives or other weapons at the first opportunity. No loyalty at all. Reminds me of certain people I've met.

That's an interesting quote. Which book is it from? I'm reading, with considerable effort, my first Koontz book, "Watchers". I like the story itself but find his style a little tedious at times. He kind of reminds me of Brett Easton Ellis in that way. Have you read a lot of Koontz?

[Invictus]

Malice, the psychotic and appropriately named snake in question, I'm sure is plotting against us right now. I just fed him yesterday, so he might be placid, but we'll see. Like RedDragon said, so far we're 2 in a row without a tag. But, on the flip side, the King snake has calmed right down. I bet he's conspiring with the VBB. They're passing secret messages to each other.

Erin, order us a pair of Kevlar suits, would ya? Thanks. :)

[MouseKilla]

yup, they're speaking that ridiculous snake language from the Harry Potter movie that can't be heard by human ears and practicing a form of serpentine martial art that science has yet to document and I have only personally stolen quick glimpses of when they thought I wasn't looking. fiends