would you feed this to your snake?

[stkkts]

So yesterday I defrosted 2 rats to give to my ball python. I let them defrost overnight in the fridge. Then I soaked them in warm water to warm them up. My snake took one, but refused the other. So I put it back in the freezer. My GF is saying that the rat is now infested with bacteria that started to breed while it was warm (It was only about a half hours time) and that freezing it wont kill the bacteria. I know most people wont do this with food we have to eat (But not too many people refuse food) but is it OK for the snake? Or do you think too much bacteria grew and I should just throw it out?

[wyz]

Once it's got unfrozen, never refreeze it.. Gotta throw it away !

WYZ

[drewlowe]

Yep i agree if you dethaw it don't refreeze it.

[KingFfaj]

yer but snakes arnt afected by the same bacteria that harms us..but...
when my snake refused a mouse, i put it back in the freezer and tried agian the next day..... he wouldnt eat it, it obviously didnt smell right to him (and he eats anything anytime), so thats the key, if it smells bad, it will probably do your body harm, and I guess the same applies for snakes, if it likes the smell, he'd eat it in the wild, if it smells to bad, he'll leave it.
may as well try coz they do have strong digestive juices;)

[stkkts]

better to be safe than sorry. Ill just throw it out.

Thanks for the replies.

[Linds]

Your girlfriend was correct in that bacteria has really begun to grow. I believe the growth rate on the bacteria that decomposes flesh is that it triples every 15 minutes.

KingFjai is also correct that snakes and other reptiles are not affected by the same bacteria that affects us. How many times have you seen a croc feasting on an old bloated carcass? I have one snake here that will only eat an item that was killed, left out for 12 hours or so, then frozen for a few days, then thawed out and left in his cage overnight :rolleyes: Tell me that isn't a stinky bacteria fest! However bacteria isn't the only concern associated with refreezing, when an item is refrozen it also further alters the nutrient composition and decreases the strength of the cells (that's one of the reasons you see those exploded rodents). I'd recommend avoiding refreezing the rodents... it can be a pain in the butt to have to throw them out, but its not really worth keeping them IMHO.

[ANACONDASAURUS]

Originally posted by wyz
Once it's got unfrozen, never refreeze it.. Gotta throw it away !

WYZ


I agree! It's not worth the aggravation of getting your reptile sick.

[Lisa]

Refreezing is a touchy subject. Personally I think it makes your snake's immune system stronger because if there are bacteria on the rodent, the snake would have to fight it a bit. Think about it, if you isolate yourself from everything your immune system will start to weaken. Now I wouldn't recommend exposing an unhealthy speciman to refrozen food, as their immune system is already being taxxed.

Also remember, reptiles are natural carriers of salmonela, meaning it won't affect them.

[Invictus]

Lisa does bring up a very good point. We can't have our snakes living in bubbles now, can we?

Luckily for me, our corns and our BCI will eat anything remotely fuzzy and rodent-like dangled in their face. This makes me very nervous when I'm cleaning their cage and my goatee is getting a bit long. :)

Sometimes I'll refreeze as long as I did a rapid thaw, and haven't had the mouse thawed for more than 15 minutes or so. After about an hour, if the snake hasn't taken it, it's in the garbage.

[MontyPython]

What is the recommended length of time to thaw a mouse or rat? I usually wait at least 20 min. I put it in a glass of hot-warm water and dry it off and then the snake does the rest. Is that long enough?
Thanks

Brian

[Invictus]

As long as it doesn't feel cold if you give it a bit of a squeeze. 20 mins should be ok though.

[Linds]

What size rodent? Pinkies may only take a minute or so while jumbo rats may take 20+ minutes. All depends on how fast the water cools, the initial temperature of both prey and water, etc. To check, pinch the rodent right through to the spine in several parts of the body, as well as through the shoulders and chest area. Hold for a little bit and if you don't feel any cold, its done :)

[BlkMambaVenom]

LoL... I was just thinkin they should put one of those things they stick in turkeys so you know when its done. Stick in the rat/mouse and when it pops up its warm enough! I know i am a weird one...hehe :) I dont even know why i started thinkin about that.
Brittany

[Neo]

scientifically speaking.. bacteria is a single cell organism w/ a weak membrane (as compared to a cell wall). freezing bacteria will cause the cytoplasm (the inside liquid of a cell) to expand and eventually burst so the bacteria cant really do nething.. if it's.. well a pile of goo

[RaVeNo888o]

Originally posted by Linds
I have one snake here that will only eat an item that was killed, left out for 12 hours or so, then frozen for a few days, then thawed out and left in his cage overnight :rolleyes: .

what type of snake is that?

i defrost my mice in about 15-20 min as well. i keep dumping the water and putting warm water back in, since it cools down farely quick from the frozen mouse

[paul_le_snake]

i prefer to let all my feeders to defrost in air temps. mainly because if they are defrosted in hot water, the scent can be lost. as for re-freezing them, i look at it being a cpl of bucks lost or a few hundred in vet bills.
cheers
paul
ps im getting a pair of gtp soon!!!! sorry couldnt hold it in anymore

[T.O-SK8TER]

I put mine in cold water for an hour, then in warm water for 10 minutes.

[paul_le_snake]

good point fella. some ppl put them in scolding hot water. thats just going to cook them
cheers
paul

[AymKing]

I refreeze if within an hour my snake's don't want them. Any longer I'll leave it overnite then if not eaten I'll throw it out the next day. Sometimes my feeder mice just die, not wanting to waste it, I'll do a smell test. If it smells TOSS IT! Just a thought :)

[Lisa]

We thaw in a big bucket, no need for water changes.

[frosty]

dont really know much about frozen food because i feed my rock python live food. I dont know if they will get bacteria but i do know that the meat gets ruined when u refreeze. My friend tryed doing that. Snakes will not usualy take refrozen food because its meat is ruined and smells diffrent. Try thoughing ane refreezing fish yee same thing to a snake.

[eyespy]

Originally posted by Neo
scientifically speaking.. bacteria is a single cell organism w/ a weak membrane (as compared to a cell wall). freezing bacteria will cause the cytoplasm (the inside liquid of a cell) to expand and eventually burst so the bacteria cant really do nething.. if it's.. well a pile of goo

That pile of goo can release a horde of toxins that can sicken animals. Bacteria doesn't need to be alive to provoke a strong immune system response that can be tough to tell apart from a true food poisoning. Sometimes the reaction is actually worse to dead organisms, since the toxins have been freely released into the flesh of the feeder animal, they are more bioavailable since they don't have to wait until they are digested to start provoking a reaction.

[Scales Zoo]

We use our snapping turtles as trash cans for themeals the snakes refuse. And although they are not for everybody, monitors, caimens and baby gators are trash cans as well.

just an alternative for any leftovers

[reptile boi]

well,
like i always say, if the food isnt good enough for me, it isnt good enough for my animals :P







Thanks,
Ben

[Linds]

Originally posted by RaVeNo888o
what type of snake is that?


This little arsehole...

<img src="http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/508/22misba4-med.jpg">
<img src="http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/508/22poopypantsb01-med.jpg">

...5.5', 4 year old BCC

[RaVeNo888o]

haha, at least its good looking

[ChunkyMunky]

I love Mr. Poopypants.

[Linds]

Thanks for the kind words :)


For those that do not refreeze due to bacteria growth and yet thaw at room temp... I'm a little confused over this. Rodents thawing at room temp grow A LOT of bacteria. Bacteria triples every 15 minutes in thawed meats... imagine how much would grow in a jumbo rat thawed at room temp.

[reptilesalonica]

I thaw them on the top of my PC monitor All sizes need different times to defrost. Large rats need about 2-3 hours, while pinkie mice need half half an hour or so. I touch them every half an hour to see id they are warm enough. If their belly is warm, then they are warm enough.
~Greg~