Anyone work out?

[Snip3r]

Well I started working out not too long ago...I do a lot of mild upper body. I played football my freshman year (varsity quaterback..only freshman at my school to ever do that) anyways. I never had to work out with the rest of the team, they let me watch...or run miles. But now I want to increase my size and get a nice shape and toned look. Im 6'3" 184lbs...I have a pretty thin build...athletic looking (I think) but I want to bulk up some more...my dad bought me one of those crazy *** work out gym things...and the onlything I do is bench press and standing curls...I can bench 160lbs (all the weight up there) I do 16 reps...then curling I do 50lbs 16 reps also...I haven't seen a big improvement. Dad has bought me all types of crap...creatine...whey protein...protein drinks...Im sowrried about taking them as I'd prefer to work for my body without 'helping'...

But my question is: Should I tone and cut what I have now..until Im happy...then eat like hell and work that off? Or would it be easier to juss work out a lot...and eat alot? Also any tips and hints about upper body would be nice...Thanks

[lordkovacs]

you have to eat a TON when trying to gain mass. creatine and whey and all that are decent for giving protein, but they won't do anything unless you are on the right program. What is your routine? how often do you work each muscle? i would suggest 3 - 5 exercies for each muscle. And, for someone that's trying to put ON weight, you can't be on a low or no carb diet. the whey/creatine are good, but you have to have some carbs to go with them. here's my current routine to give an idea...

sunday-chest
monday-triceps
tuesday-off day
wednesday-shoulders
thursday-biceps
friday and saturday-off

i do 30 min. cardio each work out day. remember also to eat protein (tuna, chicken breast, turkey, salmon, etc.) even on your off days.

to add mass, you don't want to to 16 reps. you want to do more weight less times. so, if you can do 16 reps of bench press, you want to be doing 180lbs. 8-10 times instead.
good luck... pm me and I can give you a few good weightlifting sites.cheers,
MIKE

[operation_sssss]

Hey, fair play for working out, playing rugby for Gloucester and Wales (under 21 and 19 level) training has become a big part of my daily routine and the info mike has given you is top notch, i train to something like that rotuine but due to lack of time i'll do chest then biceps in one session then back and triceps in another session, this allows you to put a big influence on certain body parts, for example if you were doing chest exercises such as incline decline and flat bench your going to be working your biceps as well then by further isolatin exercises - curls, close underarm pulll ups, you can get a really good burn!!!!! (hope that made sense lol)
Like Mike said take on the protein big time after every session, but remember your body can only take on 35g protein at any one time any excess will be p*****d out or stored as fat. For mass building in the close season i'll take 3 protein shakes a day.
My mass building programme for the closed season is 6 weeks of doin every exercise for 5 sets of 8 reps then after cut it down to 6 sets of 4 if you want to improve strength, hope any of that helped and made some sense lol good luck and train hard but remember listen to your body if it does not work for you i.e routine, diet change it to suit your needs and you will see the benefits, take care
Cheers Will

[alan]

You can't just do chest and biceps only, you have to work on your back, shoulders and triceps to even your body out. Otherwise you will put too much mass on the front and your body will curl forward naturally. I heard that doing your legs are important too, someone told me something about that but it was too complicated and I have no idea what she was talking about, but I think you're fine because you are using your legs a lot from football anyways.
I will do chest, shoulders and triceps on one day and back and biceps on the other. Remember that you'll be using your triceps when you do your chest and shoulders therefore it's better not to do biceps on those days.

[lordkovacs]

doing legs is very important, however, if you are already involved in a very physical sport that uses legs, plus you do 30 min. of cardio almost every day using an incline, you can get away with not doing legs as a designated day. as I said, have one day for each of biceps, triceps, shoulders, and chest. The reason I do not include back in these days is that when I do shoulders and triceps I do exercies that hit the back as a secondary target muscle. HOwever, if you are trying to get into bodybuilding seriously you will need to include specific back and leg exercises into your split. good luck...any questions, pm me!
cheers,
MIKE

[sSNAKESs.com]

lifting my fork from the plate to my mouth... Does that count? :(

[lordkovacs]

hahah... jeff, i'm not so sure. i guess if you were to do that with a solid 24carat gold fork that weighted 20 lbs.... hmmm, you may be on to something. eat as much as you like, and gain muscle at the same time. maybe they can come up with heavier beer bottles too! cheers,
MIKE

[sSNAKESs.com]

LOL!!!!!!! Actually I innstall drywall for a liviing so I get my fair share of work out that way... but its all shoulders and legs and after lifting 3 - 4000 square feet of drywall a day I will be damned if I have to come home and do anymore exercise!! :p

[lordkovacs]

hahah... i guess you do build up an appetite though. perhaps your "fork system" could work then. have you thought about getting a patent on that? haha.. cheers Jeff...
MIKE

[sSNAKESs.com]

lol could prove great for both arms for those who use a fork AND knife or a fork AND spoon.. bwahahah!! :p

[SCReptiles]

You didn’t have to work out with the rest of the team? I have no idea what kind of ball they play in SC, but that would get you killed where I played. I was an all state in high school and a JCC all-American. Everywhere I played from grade school to college the QB worked out just like everyone else…I think your story is fishy. But, to your questions, if you are wanting to work out for football you need to strength train and concentrate flexibility so that you do not get muscle bound. Use free weights and not those silly machines. Use lower weights and higher reps. If you only want to bulk up, go buy Arnold’s book.

[lordkovacs]

yeah, I agree with chuck, free weights are better. reason being, you have to work your inferior body parts (if you are right handed, it forces you to use your left are for biceps curls...for example). Also, it forces you to use smaller muscles becuase you have to worry about balance. good advice chuck...
MIKE

[JeffT]

Just curious, how would you work out your chest? I have big arm, legs and abdominal muscels but cant figure out anything with my chest.

[lordkovacs]

do 4 exercises for chest minimum. here's what I do...

Flat bench press
Incline bench press
decline bench press
dumbell fly's

[hudson]

whatever you do don't forget your legs, there is nothing worse then seeing a guy with a sweet upper body and then looking down and seeing that he has scrawny chicken legs.

Kate

[lordkovacs]

haha... yeah, kate, that's important I guess! as I said, you can get away with not doing legs if you play sports regularly where legs are a big part of it, and you do an incline cardio thing cause they will work your butt, your shins, your calves. if not, you do have to do some leg work...cheers.

[Reckless]

If you are working out for football legs are especially important, Heavy squats and power cleans are a must to develop explosive power and increase speed. If you are looking to just gain mass heavy weights and low reps are the way to go. For some muscle gains and muscular endurance which really helps during the season high reps and lower weights are needed.

The most important thing is proper diet, high in protein low in fat and protein shakes are a great meal replacement.

[Bryce Masuk]

I never bought in to the whole working out at a gym thing
Back when i was going to arnis I told my instructor i was probley going to lift weights He said "no point you want lift weights lift rocks" and that's what i did I could run with a 100 pound rock for like 5 seconds but Sparring will keep you in great shape endurance above all is the most important thing well at least to me

[lordkovacs]

squats are great for butt and quads. guess it depends on what you want out of your routine. be more specific... cheers.

[nuno]

There's nothing wrong with protein powders cause all it is is pre-digested potein this type of protein feeds you muscles quicker. CREATINE and all the other nonsence say NO. I am a firm believer in BLOOD, SWEAT and TEARS. Eat right and take you vitamins and thats it!!!I have competed naturaly in bodybuilding and even took home 4th out of 165 compeditors a couple years ago. I entered at 185 and only 7 pounds were fat, I had depleated my water to maybe a cap full after every meal. This is strickly the regime for show. I am 215 and pressed 375pounds in my prime and curled 80's a side, Squats were around 450-500 range and my best leg press was 1500 pounds that was my biggest achievement. I am trying to maintain what I got because the weight will get to you eventually. My fingers sometimes wouldn't close after I shruged 6 plates a side. I love bodybuiling and have since I was a kid. I have every FLEX magazine since the begining and due to the fact that I was a natural bodybuilder I could never get my pro card...The IFBB pro's do juice. Shawn Ray is my favorite bodybuilder!!. I have spent years researching and found that the thousans of dollars that are spent on supplemens not including protein powder can easily be supplemented through diet.

[TheRedDragon]

I really don't have much time to work out, so, when I'm at work, during quiet periods, I'll walk or run around the store. I'm on my feet and constantly active all day at work since I'm a sales associate, so, I get it there. :) I also walk home sometimes rather than catching my 2nd bus..it's about a 1/2 an hour walk.

[JeffT]

lol Kate, well Im pretty big into hockey so you dont gotta worry about me having chicken legs.

[Big AL]

One important thing that is commonly missed while working muscles is the squeeze! When you reach the peak of the movement you need to squeeze and hold the muscle before going back. For example when you do a curl dont just fling the weights up and down. You need slow and good form and when at the top......FLEX! I am a believer in heavier weights with less reps for building bulk. I prefer free weights also, but there are some machines at the gym I add in....especially cables. Wait til you are older before spending all the money on powders and suppliments. Now is the time to concentrate on form. Dont forget the old standards...pushups, crunches, and pullups. Good Luck!!

[Conas]

i play college football right now as an offensive lineman so i know all about gaining weight =D
First off, don't worry about taking supplements to help your growth. In fact, i highly encourage that you use some type of protein supplement. Whey protein is what i've found to be the best. I live in the Texas Panhandle so i get plenty of protein via steaks ;-) But do indeed take supplements, they help so much. Creatine is great too, but i understand what you mean by it all.
Curls are for girls. If you want to fill out the sleeves of your shirt, then work on your triceps. Don't neglect your biceps though, cause every muscle is a good muscle. Your bench press max will go way up when you start building some monster tri's. Have you ever gotten the bar to where your elbows make a 90 degree angle and then dropped the bar on a bench max? That's when your tri's come into play. If you ever take up powerlifting then you'll use bench shirts which help you alot untill you get to your tri's.
Leg strength.. hmm.. squats are the probly the most effective way to get to your thighs. There's not a football routine in the country that doesn't use squats. Try doing some front squats. That's when the bar is resting on your chest rather than your shoulders. If you want to develop some acceleration and crazy speed for scrambling, develop those calfs too. Calf raises are good but they are boring so there's other stuff you can do. Get on a stair master and don't let the balls of your feet ever touch the groud. Or just walk a lap on your tippy toes, it will burn :)
As for the chest, someone already kinda hit the nail on the head. Bench press, flies, push ups, etc. If you'd like i can send you a college work out so you can get an idea of what to do.
To build mass: Heavy weight w/ low reps.
To build stamina and develop cut muscles: low weight w/ high reps.
Don't forget the incline and decline presses either, they'll give you a huge chest too.
Remember that every pound you put on, the longer it will take you to run that almighty 40 yard dash. Run every day you can. Running up a hill or running bleachers is a really great workout that will take less time than running 10 100s.
And last thing.. Yes free weights are the best. They make you concentrate on your work out alot more because of balance and that used more muscle fibers. Have you ever done lat pulls and felt nothing? I don't know why, but the back muscle will not develop unless you concentrate on it. During your rep, vision what your back looks like and what your muscles are doing while you pull the weight. Concentrate on every work out and you'll feel a difference. When you use free weights, you're way less likely to just do the weight and rack rather than concentrating.

If i remember anything else, i'll post again :)

**Sorry this post was so long.. I know way more about working out than i do reptiles so i needed to speak about what i know when i had the chance**

[snakemann87]

Well i get PLENTY of workout during Wrestling.......so in da summer i run...and every night and morning i do 50 sit ups....pushups...and things wehre u lay down and keep ur legs of da ground while bringin them forward and back

[snakemann87]

OH i use to have a workout bench but when we moved to our current house my dad thru it ouT!!!!!

Also my neighbor is a cop and offered to take me to the Acadamy some day!!!!!:)

[OttawaChris]

If you are going to start bodybuilding I highly recommend you pick up the "Encyclopedia of modern bodybuilding" written by Arnold Schwartzenegger (I think he has already proven he knows what he is talking about ;) )

It is a large book but he goes into great detail on how to properly exercise each body part to get the most out of your workouts. Its also a great book for motivation. Every time I finish a chapter I want to run out and start lifting anything I can find LOL

As for the supplements... my own personal opinion is that if you ingest it in a normal meal then its ok to supplement. Creatine is found in all red meat... 2 tablespoons of the stuff is about what you would get by eating 1kg of red meat. I was skeptical about the stuf to say the least... but I did notice a marked improvement in my workouts after I tried it for a month. The main reason I use it now is for the way it inhibits lactic acid in your muscles. This reduces the burning feeling in your muscles and also the soreness you get a couple of days after a big workout. It also helps speed up muscle recovery and makes your muscles take in water so they look bigger. This is a supplement that has been around for a long time now and there havent been many bad side effects that I have read about so I feel its safe to use.

Protein powders are ok... egg whites and tuna are a lot cheaper though. Where I find protein powders useful is mixing shakes or making smoothies. Apart from that I have a hard time getting the stuff down my throat.

[drewlowe]

workout whats that. oh thats right that's why i have a high metoblism. LOL I haven't worked out since my volleyball & softball days in highschool. Unless you count walking to the fridge for a soda working out.

[Canadaherp]

c'mon jeff thats weak, drywalling is easy compared to cement mixing, but that might just be my height being nice to me there i've done both for short times and i'd say drywalling is a lot easier plus cement stuff is much heavier and its even put a lot of bulk on me latley

I agree Cement mixing is tough, but there is a huge differance between Drywalling here and out in Calgary etc.... We do a house in 1.5 days where out where you are it usual runs a week plus, or at least the trades I have seen come from the east or west except for BC all tell me the same thing, they cant beleive how fast you have to actually work in Ontario... 10'000 square foot drywall (3200sq foot house) must be done in 1.5 - 2 days or dont even bother looking for work. Just last week 5 guys from new brunswick came out here that are friends of a carpenter crew here, the boss told them 1.5 days to finish the house and they packed there tools back into the van and went home... Seriously :P :p

[Linds]

Geez... I should just get my boyfriend to post in this one... he's huge in to weight-training and all that. He's at the gym 6 days a week, supplements and all that jazz. Myself... I'll don't go to the gym, however I do about an hour of pilates a day at home... :)

[KaHane]

Hmmmm... Interesting post....... Here's my thoughts.
You must train hard and eat right. 80% of it is in your nutrition and 20% is sweat in the gym. The most important is PROTIEN, you should consume 1.5 grams of protien per lean body weight. If you weigh 184lbs you should have 277-278 grams per day, now divide it by 40. Eat 40 grams per meal and spread it out through the day. I rarely eat carbs, only right after cardio and training so your muscles can get back it's glycogen stores. To train naturally, you must have enough rest for your working and growing muscles. Try this schedule:
3-4 excercise per bodypart. 8-10 reps for 3-4 sets Max.
Monday: Chest
Tuesday: Back
Wednesday: Shoulders
Thursday: Legs( Quads& Hamstrings)
Friday: Arms( Biceps&Triceps)
Saturday: Abs&Calves
Sunday: Rest
Then you do it all over again, To train naturally you need the rest, but train hard and short. The workouts should last around 45- 60 minutes. This schedule will ensure you have enough rest and each workout you will be stronger and lifting heavier!
Here's a post workout drink recipe muscle gains and size: Control your insulin and use it for your benefit!
Insulin is a powerful hormone that is in your body, too much of it will make you fat as a house. But if you can harness it's power you can make DRAMATIC gains!, cause insulin acts as a transport system to take all nutrients to your muscles and make them stronger and fuller, which will make them bigger and grow! Carbs induces insulin, specificly simple carbs, such as sugar. Protien will slow and shut it down.
So here's the recipe:
60 grams of dextrose( corn sugar, you can use regular sugar but dextrose is much better.)
5-10 grams of creatine
10 grams of Glutamine( Amino acid that plays a MAJOR role in muscle synthesis and recovery)
100 grams of Alpha lipoic acid( another insulin stimulator)
1 cup of juice
mix it up and drink it RIGHT AFTER your workout. Wait half an hour( for the insulin spike) Then drink 40-50 grams of pure protien shake. This post workout drinks will be the most important thing, without it you will make little if any gains.
There is the recipe for guaranteed size and strength NATURALLY!
Well thought I'd post my 2 cents! If you have any more questions, let me know.

[Piebald Guy]

And congrats on your hard work. I've seen you we've never spoken. I agree with you 100% on all your info. I would like to add a little from my "years" back in 1993-1994. I found your workout schedule perfect when "on". Promotes huge mustle and a bit of strength gain. When I hit the upper-intermediate stage of training that's what I used.

In the beginning I used a two on one off routine over 6 days

Day1- Chest and Bi's (three exercises (sp) chest (30min max), three bi's (20min max)

Day2- Back and Tri's (agian three exercises, these are reverse pyramids working up to max then reping back down)

Day3- Rest

Day4- Delts and Traps (Hard, heavy and 50 mins max)

Day5- Legs (squats, squats, squats, and hams, 30min max, its all u need if you giver)

Day6- Rest

Day7- Start back with Day1

Times are right on the money. As you know the more inactive you are (ie: don't expend piles of exertion and energy at work) and shock the body hard, then offer it exactly what you said FOOD. You will grow well. As you grow accustomed to your workout, change the routine but I find that required every 8-10 months min. Gained 30lbs in 30days, promtly lost it all. Good 'ol test. Kept the strength though.

I find the big difference in training is that if you are "on" train to grow and gain strength in all mustle groups. If you are not (almost everyone) focus on a single mustle group at a time. Put the extra effort in that mustle and cut back just a little on the others. Rotate the focused mustle group every 2-3 months. The body has only so much recouperablility. I learnt and will allways train like a bodybuilder, heavyish, pumping, taxing. The body clean CANNOT build all groups at the same time. Get hooked on training that way and you give up the gym and training. Sad but true.

Dave

[lordkovacs]

See, everyone has their own take on a routine. basically, you once you start on a beginner routine (important to get a solid base), then you can customize it to fit your needs. The workout drink described above is good, however, Creatine is not a good thing in EVERYBODY. Sure, it will produce results, but there are side effects in SOME body types. Everything else stated was correct, HOWEVER, Kahane, your regiment is based on your routine that is probably not a beginner's routine. THis gentleman wants to START training. So, he's gotta go simple in my opinion. ie. 6 days is an overload. a 4-day split to get a base is much better imho. you do have a pretty good routine though. I may steal that! haha... and interesting drink and nutrition comments. They are very true. What breakfast foods do you eat that are low carb? I find it difficult to find any, other than eggs. Cheers all, and great posts!

[Colonel SB]

Ha Ha Ha Ha me work out :p

They call me Buddah at work cuz I'm a big fat bald guy!

[lordkovacs]

oh, I disagree in the 1.5X your body weight in protein. your body can only absorb 30 grams at a time (some say 34 grams). This lasts for a couple hours. anything in addition is wasteful, and does nothing. Personally, in April ( I think april anyway) I weighed 210lbs. I ate 200 grams a day and have gained 10 lbs. in muscle in the last few months. I have spoken with some very serious builders that think over your body weight in wasteful. See, that's the thing.... everyone has their own thoughts. So long as it's right for you, that you are not wrong in whatever you do (provided you stay natural.... unnatural is cheating!! haha). So, really, experiment a little with routines and nutrition supplements. Good luck, and this is a killer thread...

[KaHane]

I think the program I've put out is good for beginners and advanced trainers. It all comes down to what will actually burn you out and overtrain? If you put 100% to a bodypart per session/day and keep your training time to an hour or less, you won't overtrain. You can only overtrain if you workout for too long and/or your NUTRITION is lacking. See you trian each body part per day and by the time you train it again, it would have a weeks of recuperation. The key is to train with enough intensity so it needs a week to recuperate and get stronger. As for the 1.5 grams of protein per bodyweight, I believe in low carb diet and the extra protein is for back up just incase you body needs it. I only consume large amounts of carbs in the morning, after my cardio and mid day after my traing session. This way, you can stay lean and still build strength and muscle. Also Protien is the major building block, you must take into consideration that your body uses up proteins for your hair, bones, skin, teeth and pratically every organ in your body daily! Before it is used for muscle building. Your body doesn't really care if you get built, it only cares about recovering what is needed daily to survive. So by the time it has used the protein for it's daily rebuliding of body tissues, what would be left over? That is why I am a firm believer of extra protein. If you want to build muscle, would you risk not having enough protien( the building block) or having extra. Also when you take in protien, you burn alot more calories while digesting it(Lose weight and get cut while you are eating!)
As for the old myth of 30 grams only digestable per meal, I used to believe that that was true. Until I realized that, how could a guy that say weights 120lbs and say a football player that weights 300lbs digest the only the same amount per meal? Then why would the bigger guy need more food or he will be straving!! Cause the bigger you are the more protien you need to maintain or increase your size. I think how many grams you could digest is related and porportioned to the size of the person. But there must be limitations, probably 30 is minimum and 60 would be the MAX.
Well that's my oppinion on why extra protien is essential, but if another way works that's great also. Just wanted to explain more :D The next topic should be essential fatty acids! the REAL most important element.
Great topic and thread guys!:)

[Kurzix]

For anyone starting out with weight training I highly recommnd Bill Phillips Body for Life... when I first heard of this I was skeptical, but I;ve got freinds that have been on it, and yes it does work, after seeing my freinds, I fully beleive those before and after pictures. I'm just starting out on it myself. but by far in terms of equipment, a good set of dumbbells and a bench is all you need. you can work out every body this this simple setup.

With the Bill Phillips system, nutrition becomes easy, weight lifting is done 3 times a week, cardio is also done 3 times a week. And the workouts are short time wise, but they burn far more than what what i was tought in college!

[Bryce Masuk]

"They call me Buddah at work cuz I'm a big fat bald guy!"

Lol you should get a t-shirt made that says "I ate Buddah so leave me alone"

[Big AL]

KaHane I like your routine. Mine is pretty similar except I take two days off and do calves and abs more than once a week. However, I still dissagree with everyone that suggests this kid takes all these drugs. He is a freshman in highschool and is too young to start hitting it that hard. The only thing I would even let him use if he were my kid was protein shakes. Also, he can work out in the gym every day for 2 hours, but if he doesnt have proper form he wont do anything but hurt himself.

[KaHane]

I totally agree about being Natural, there's nothing I've suggested that is any type or form of drug. I only suggest natural suppliments to aid and increase your progress. I've been training since I was 12 and learned that nothing will beat HARD WORK and KNOWLEDGE. You must be flexible and adapt to the changes your body makes and do what is needed to acheive your goals. I'm not a big guy, but I am physically fit and healthy. Your health is the most important thing.

[Syst3m]

Originally posted by KaHane
Hmmmm... Interesting post....... Here's my thoughts.
You must train hard and eat right. 80% of it is in your nutrition and 20% is sweat in the gym. The most important is PROTIEN, you should consume 1.5 grams of protien per lean body weight. If you weigh 184lbs you should have 277-278 grams per day, now divide it by 40. Eat 40 grams per meal and spread it out through the day. I rarely eat carbs, only right after cardio and training so your muscles can get back it's glycogen stores. To train naturally, you must have enough rest for your working and growing muscles. Try this schedule:
3-4 excercise per bodypart. 8-10 reps for 3-4 sets Max.
Monday: Chest
Tuesday: Back
Wednesday: Shoulders
Thursday: Legs( Quads& Hamstrings)
Friday: Arms( Biceps&Triceps)
Saturday: Abs&Calves
Sunday: Rest
Then you do it all over again, To train naturally you need the rest, but train hard and short. The workouts should last around 45- 60 minutes. This schedule will ensure you have enough rest and each workout you will be stronger and lifting heavier!
Here's a post workout drink recipe muscle gains and size: Control your insulin and use it for your benefit!
Insulin is a powerful hormone that is in your body, too much of it will make you fat as a house. But if you can harness it's power you can make DRAMATIC gains!, cause insulin acts as a transport system to take all nutrients to your muscles and make them stronger and fuller, which will make them bigger and grow! Carbs induces insulin, specificly simple carbs, such as sugar. Protien will slow and shut it down.
So here's the recipe:
60 grams of dextrose( corn sugar, you can use regular sugar but dextrose is much better.)
5-10 grams of creatine
10 grams of Glutamine( Amino acid that plays a MAJOR role in muscle synthesis and recovery)
100 grams of Alpha lipoic acid( another insulin stimulator)
1 cup of juice
mix it up and drink it RIGHT AFTER your workout. Wait half an hour( for the insulin spike) Then drink 40-50 grams of pure protien shake. This post workout drinks will be the most important thing, without it you will make little if any gains.
There is the recipe for guaranteed size and strength NATURALLY!
Well thought I'd post my 2 cents! If you have any more questions, let me know.

So I quoted Kahane here because I beleive that he speaks the truth for building serious mass.

But not everyone is built like kahane. If your a thin build you might be whats called a hard gainer. What Kahane describes here is a VERY serious workout routine for a VERY serious body builder. Do not fret you too can have the body you have always wanted.

First look up hard gainer. Second Start doing legs and back. Your legs and Back produce the most testosterone. You will build muscle more readily with higher testosterone levels.

Personally I see better gains with a 2 day weight lifting 1 day cardio split. I am personally a hard gainer. I have alot of trouble gaining weight in any fashion. I do legs every day, its either a Squat or a Dead lift of some sort.
If you want to get big, YOU MUST DO LEGS AND BACK. My exercise list is usually, 2x20 squat or deadlift I do squats on one day and deadlift on the other. every exercise I do a 1x20 warmup with a very light weight
On both days I do 1x8 curls of some sort
2x8 rows of some sort
2x6 bench press
2x20 calf raises
2x8 over head press w/dumbells usually
2x10 close grip pull ups normal or reversed with no warmup.

You want to increase your weight and rotate your workout.
So if you do preacher curls one week you want to do concentration curls or some other curl the next week.
Keep a record of how much you do and how many times you do it.
you always want to keep increasing your weights.

Never work out to failure more then once a week. This will help reduce the affect on the central nervous system and might help your immune system stay strong.

Working out can make you sick if you over do it. Remember to do cardio 2 times a week or more for 30 minutes a day. I do a 20 minute warmup on a stationary bike before I do any workout too.

And EAT EAT EAT, take your vitamins and drink LOTS of water.

If you don't want to spend alot of money on vitamins, I suggest a good multi vitamin, one that has individual vitamins, a bottle of 2222 amino pills and take them as recommended, myoplex whey protien powders work good for me, and follow kahanes directions on when to take them and what he says about drinking juice right after a workout, what he says about the insulin is correct.

www.abcbodybuilding.com has a great list of exercises with pictures.
www.extreme-athlete.com has a great forum.

[Sunrunner]

I can't believe I missed out on this forum, finally a topic I know about and I missed the whole thing. Well anyway as a person who holds a degree in sports science as well a certified personal trainer and sports nutritionist with years of personal training experience I have to say alot of people here have shown an impressive amount knowledge on the topic although there are a few points I would disagree with (Kahane your program and nutri info are great but I don't think you have enough complete rest days scheduled in there for a natural body's recuperative ability, the body needs complete days off for total neaural recooperation, following the philosophy that training with short intense work outs and good nutrition with only 1-2 bodyparts per work out a week will not lead to over training because each part has a weeks rest then we should be able to train indefinately, however truth is we must take complete rest days off for total recovery, two days a week is good but I recommend three for beginners).

The most important thing to remember is that every person is unique and your program must be unique to you...pm me with your stats and current routine and I will help you out, also Lord Kovacs I just got in today so I will send you that program and info you asked me for like a week ago (sorry about that I was away for awhile). Excellent thread people, glad for once it stayed off the roid topic and just focused on work outs, nice and clean. Damn sorry I missed it. Also supplement wise creatine is a 1000% safe even the IOC allows it and another top notch supplement is ZMA add that to your program for great recovery
and huge strength increases.
Brent.

[Sunrunner]

Also one point on Arnolds book. I am a HUGE Arnold fan and the info in the book as well as the pics are fantastic but I would not follow Arnolds recommended routines if I was you, training the whole body three times a week is way to much for 99% of people Arnold was very gifted genetically and very few could do what he could not to mentionm he had the add of roids, very few other pro's even ones better then Arnold would follow such a routine, it is just too much and will burn you out. You are not Arnold, let Arnold train Arnolds way you have to train your way. Which will take time to find but I will try to help you. Good Luck!

[Jeff_Favelle]

I agree with Sunrunner. Every "body" is different, and thus should be trained accordingly. Plus everyone's goals can be radically different as well. That's why they have personal trainers. To recognize your body type/fitness level, and then build a program to realistically reach your goals.

[Linds]

I would love to get seriously in to working out, but its not as easy from home. I keep trying to learn as much as I can on the topic and have been getting more and more in to it than I ever have been. Personally, the gym intimidates me... I wouldn't know what I was doing... and even still I don't have the financial situation to afford a membership :( I hate cardio with a passion... partly because I have breathing problems, other part because I jsut do not find it enjoyable. I love weights though. All I have at home are 5 lb dumbells and a 10 lb barbell :confused: I do an hour of pilates, then I do more ab work, followed by weights, then a few miscellaneous excercises. I do this 5-6 days a week usually. I try to go running once or twice a week... but I can't anymore because this weather winds me in a second and I experience terrible throat, chest, and head pain :confused: I hate the stationary bike... I think I use it 5x a year :o I've been getting Mike to teach me more excercises to I can do with the weights. I quit drinking for one month and the results were incredible I've pretty much come down to only consuming alcohol a couple times a month, if that. I'm always told how alcohol kills off the hormone that builds muscle, but wow... I never expected results like that. It was very encouraging and inspiring to say the least :D I've always worked out here and there for years, but lately I've actually become quite serious about it. I guess its a new hobby for me :)

Syst3m,
Thanks for the links! :)

[Phox]

Currently bulking, I workout 4 days a week:

Day 1 - Arms, Chest, Calves
Day 2 - Cardio
Day 3 - Shoulders, Legs (Squats are king!)
Day 4 - Cardio
Day 5 - Back, Triceps
Day 6 - Rest
Day 7 - Repeat

My workouts take no more than an hour a day. I usually do a warmup set or 2, rest a minute and then do 5x5 OR 3x8, resting about 2 - 2 1/2 minutes inbetween sets.
Eat about 2500-3000 calories/day. 200 grams of protein/day. Lots and lots of chicken, potatoes, pasta, and eggs. Eating right is atleast half the battle!

[Neo]

i dunno if someone mentioned this but.. TECHNIQUE TECHNIQUE TECHNIQUE. the exercises dont do nething unless u use proper technique. especially on curls where the tendancy is to use your shoulders and back and momentum. i also believe in the high weight low reps. a good thing to do is negatives. where u get your max and a spotter and for example on the bench u bring it down as slowly as possible till it hits your chest then ur spotter brings it up and u repeat. also proporition is a good idea. the first yr i worked out i did nothing but bench and i reached a stopping point.. the next yr i worked biceps, triceps, shoulders and my max went up atleast 40 pounds.

[xxbad]

i workout mainly bench pressing biceps/dumbells kneebends toe raises windsprints and since ive stared getting into all this working out stuff i got these cool pushup platforms i use those a lot. i have only been workin out for about 8 months but i have seen a huge improvement honestly i dont see how ppl can be fat. i just dont i wouldnt eat till i was thin if i was.
well when i started working out in 7thgrade 3rdquarter i benched 85 lbs now i can lift that up and down 25 times.

well lets keep pumpin up

[Sunrunner]

Not eating is a horrible and highly unefficient way to lose body fat (notice i didn't say wieght) a properly executed diet plan focusing on a reduction in carbs and controlled fats combined with a regular exercise program and cardio is a zillion times more effective especailly if used with an ECA stack. Being out of shape is a choice not something that just happens.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Anyone watch Survivor last night? Not an glowing recommendation for beach muscles!! LOL! What a waste of space Osten was. A walking muscular atrophe. Useless.

[Syst3m]

:o Wow I missed this thread picking back up.

I think a lot of people have really hit the nail on the head here.

I have a few things to say about Arnold, his book was made for people doing steroids. Like he used to take. The key to steroids is use not abuse, they are not as bad as they are made out to be except for the people who abuse them. For the every day person Steroids are a BIG no. They are not an instant road to success you need to train hard and KNOW what your doing. He had doctors for this stuff and it was legal then.

There is a lot to working out and every of course is different. I've changed a lot of the things I've thought in the past few months even. Your body is marvelous, it can adapt to almost anything.
One of the big things I can say that will help most of you, don't do the same routine every week, change things up a lot.

It's ok to keep the same muscle groups on the same days for about 3-4 weeks. Thats at least what is working for me. Everyone is different. Try to never do the same workout 2 weeks in a row. There are some core exercises that should always be done, for example Bench/Squats/Deadlifts. There are more then one way to do core exercises too so even those should be changed up as often as possible, for example you can do bench with barbell or dumbells, you can do incline and decines instead of straight horizontal. Cycling is another big thing. Try to not keep a heavy cycle for more then 7 weeks. A Lot of the big guys are saying that you should have 7 week cycles of heavy work, then 7 of light work where you are concentrating on putting on mass. Recovery time is another big thing. always give legs 10 days to heal, so if you do a killer squat/deadlift routine give yourself time. Those are the biggest groups in the body and they will require the longest to heal. Don't do any other exercises on legs or back days.. Your going to over stress your body. Don't try to do legs twice a week either.

Body building is a science. You need to figure out what works for you, some people can do 2 days a week of weight lifting and see modest gains, some can do more and still see those gains.

Don't get over stressed, don't let yourself get sick, don't work out when you are sick.

Stay healthy, stay fit, eat right and enjoy life.