View Full Version : Scam?! advice needed...
I have been looking for BRBs. I got in contact with a 'breeder' who had good prices on a juvi pair. I contacted him, and he sent me a pic. It was a great looking snake, so I e-mailed the guy to see them (I don't want to buy anything with out seeing it). the guy wants 25% down to hold, as they won't be 'ready to go' for two weeks. He emailed back saying this:
"Nothing aganst you i don't have people over hear just because that is are rules besides that they are not ready to leave for noter 2 weeks sorry about that not trying to be a ******* but
we have had problems bring people in and out and it never works let me knowif you still want a pair."
Am I right to think that something is fishy? I don't Understand...the guy wants me to give him money, but he won't let me see the merch in person?! I'm not sure how to handle it, as the guy is posting on this forum. I don't want anyone (including myself) to get scammed.
Thanks for your advise.
You should arrange to meet..
If i hade a huge and expensive collection I wouldn't wnat anybody at my house either... for many reasons..
As for the 25%.. it's a common thing, but I wouldn't do it myself.
When the snakes are ready, ask to meet with him and the merchandise..
WYZ
nic i sent pics to you so you did see the brazilians in the pics.i just don't like people here i like to meet with people in the area's i choose sorry nic you took it the wrong way alot of people i know don't want the public at there house either bad ones wreck it for the good ones.hope you understand.i have no problem meeting with you. i won't bring the brb out because they may get stressed they have only had 1 meal so they are not even ready for homes.
THANK-YOU
It's a common thing for breeders to not allow access to the physical site, it's often due to health reasons (health of the breeding colony, not your health). Many request 50% down to hold, shows you're serious about getting the snake, as many people say "i want that snake" and so you hold it for them telling people "sorry it's taken" only to have the buyer back out. It's all the bad apples that have ruined it for everyone.
lordkovacs
08-06-03, 10:37 AM
hey, i was gonna buy off him too, but money is so tight until september anyway. he seemed like a very cool guy, and was even willing to bring them by. perhaps I'm just a very trusting person (perhaps naively so...) but I personally would have trusted him. His snakes looked pretty good by the way... too bad I don't have the cash or you woun'd t have the chance to buy off him! haha...j/k. cheers, and good luck with the BRB's, should you choose to buy.
MIKE
mike i told you the same thing 25% to hold them i was even going to hold them for you till september 15 for you and yes the pair he is interested in was the pair you where going to get since i only have 1 pair left like all the other people some even paid in full so i am not out there trying to scam people.
THANK-YOU
I don't believe boa is trying to scam anyone. Everything you mentioned in your post is somewhat standard when it comes to buying snakes.
TONS of people don't invite buyers to their house to see their "collections" Like wyz mentioned its a risk bringing people into your house even if you just keep a moderate collection. Snakes are a VERY easy item to steal as they have no serial numbers and are worth a good chunk of change even the more common species. Also health reasons are another issue. You have someone who has mites in there collection come over and chances are the mites will move to your place LOL. Lots of reasons. I let people come to my house when I am buying, or selling but not everyone and I prefer to meet them. And I only keep low end colubrids. I just don't want *everyone* seeing exactly how.what and where I keep my stuff. You never know who is a punk.
And a deposit is more than reasonable. IMHO.
Marisa
I can understand the dilema of having people over, for many reasons. It just seems hard for me to get a handle on the idea of giving you money with out actually getting to see the snake. How do I know if snake is going be the one in the picture. The internet is pretty anonymous..it is very easy to be taken (both buyer and seller).
I am not trying to get any one to break their rules, or to cause trouble. I am very interested in picking up a pair of beauty BRBs. The picture was great, but there is nothing like seeing these guys up close. I realize a commitment is needed by the buyer, but I have never heard of anybody buying something with out seeing it in person.
What would happen if i give you money beforehand, then after two weeks, I go to pick up the snakes and they are: too small, sick, hurt, or unsatisfactory in some other way? I have now lost my cash for 'backing out'... yet it was not a good snake to begin with.
It sounds like this is how everyone does it, so I guess I am being somewhat paranoid. Thanks for your input guys!
Boa...I will be getting in touch with you again. I hope you are not affended by my question.
I understand.i have even looked at a pic and like it and deposited money into accounts that they are half way around the world and then they ship that snake to me.this is a small world you f*** somone the word get's around quick.and people on this site are great they are all here for the same reasons.
I am buying something this weekend sight un-seen! LOL seriously I am.
When it comes to animals like snakes you can easily tell what stock you are purchasing by knowing the breeder and what his animals look like. Its actually extremely common to buy sight unseen although not a "rule" of course and many people take pictures beforehand. But not always.
You can always ask Boa if he is willing to meet you for a look at them, and if you want them, purchase them but let him know you may want to turn them down if they aren't exactly what you are looking for.
:D Good luck. And its GOOD to be sceptical and paranoid when purchasing anything but you can normally easily tell if someone is shady or not.
Marisa
lordkovacs
08-06-03, 12:05 PM
boa...i know...i'm saying you are reputable, and your practices are great. I appreciate what you were willing to do for me. if there is any way i can possibly get the cash I will def. make an offer you can't refuse! haha...
In addition to the risks to your collection, there are also risks to yourself when bringing in strangers around your animals and home, such as insurance should anything result.
Holding deposits are pretty standard practice in the industry, if it doesn't state, ask whether or not it is refundable. Either are acceptable, and its up to you whether you want to accept the risk of putting down a non-refundable deposit until you can view your snakes upon pickup.
As mentioned above, there can be an even greater deal of faith involved when it is not possible to view snakes before purchase. Such as importing animals overseas, or even just from province to province purchasing.
Its all your call, if you don't feel comfortable with those terms, then move on, if not go ahead, nothing is out of the ordinary in terms of standard industry practice :)
lordkovacs
08-06-03, 12:38 PM
i put down a deposit to Mardy for a snake to be brought down in a couple weeks. i know he has a good rep. and I know people that know him on a personal level. I don't think it's uncommon, especially when everyoen seems to know one another. again, the advantages of a community type forum like this shines through...
MIKE
RaVeNo888o
08-06-03, 12:40 PM
also, dont forget, everyone knows who you are buying from and his reputation is on the line, if he give you 'bad' snakes, ppl here will know, and that wouldnt be good for his business, so i doubt he would do anything that was against his best interest, and yours
lordkovacs
08-06-03, 02:37 PM
raven... exactly... you get a good rep by having good bus. practices. it's in his best interest to remain ethical. I know him though, and can say he's got ethics. i don't think you'd be dissapointed with buying from him. cheers,
MIKE
OttawaChris
08-06-03, 03:36 PM
When I was still selling critters I was also reluctant to let people come over. Not because I had anything to hide... but because I live in an apartment building and neighbours dont tend to greet critters with as much warmth and enthusiasm as we do. In other words... what they didnt know wasnt hurting them. I also didnt want to look like a drug dealer LOL (I sold a lot of baby tarantulas which get shipped in pill vials)
As an alternative, what I always did when someone wanted to actually see something was to actually bring the specimen to them... either at their house or at a meeting place. That way I could discretely bring them in a duffel bag to show whomever wanted to have a look.
Maybe this is an acceptable alternative to the quarelling individuals here?
As for the deposit... I don't blame the guy one single bit. Herpers are VERY fussy people when it comes to buying stuff... (one large reason amongst many that I quit selling them). I often got told "yes I will buy it for sure" only to never hear from the person again. This cost me sales from others who were interested in the specimens (anyone that has ever sold a reptile will probably tell you very similar stories). What I resorted to was a non-refundable deposit OR selling it to the first person that put money in my hand (as long as they didnt have a reputation for improperly caring for animals... which happened a couple of times too. I refused to sell to a couple of people because of experiences and reliable sources telling of abuse and improper care)
NewLineReptile
08-06-03, 03:55 PM
Boa..... Is a good guy i have delt with him a few time's i know from the deals that we have made that he is not out there to scam anyone.
Brandon
We've bought a few snakes unseen via the internet from other people, been happy with all of them.
Stockwell
08-06-03, 04:36 PM
For what it's worth folks, I have a bit of experience in this business,(24yrs) and most of you have the right idea.
Breeders don't have people to their facilities for all the reasons stated. In fact quite a few don't even sell directly to buyers but prefer to use a broker or to wholesale stuff off to another party, like a retailer for example. This is generally done because it's simpler and less time consuming. Not all breeders are good marketers or retailers. Some do both, but just as many don't even try.
I have on occasion sold directly, but I never take deposits, because I don't find it necessary. It can create nervousness on behalf of the buyer, and it makes more work for me trying to keep track of it.
I will send pictures, then when the snakes are feeding and ready to go we will meet somewhere, usually my office or a donut hole. That is how it has worked for 20 years. More herp deals have gone down in donut holes than have yet to go down at swap meets. LOL
At that meeting the transaction can happen cordially and on a COD basis.
You see the animal is in good health, and is what was discussed and represented in corresponence and photos, and then I expect full payment, then and there..... Simple!!
This of course is only possible with local sales, and obviously things are a bit different if animals are to be shipped out of province. In that case I still don't usually take a deposit unless it's for a huge order, and its a new relationship.
Many breeders do take deposits, and there is nothing wrong with that, but the buyer can be expected to be nervous if the seller is not well known. I think it is fair to ask for a reference from another satisfied customer. New breeders should be willing to provide such, and not be offended when asked.
Also if the consumer isn't comfortable with a deposit, simply refuse, and look for the animal you seek from another source that you feel more comfortable with. You should never feel obligated to pay a deposit, but of course the breeder also isn't obligated to sell to you.
I avoid the hassle of keeping track of deposits and possibly having to return them, if I can't fill the order, by simply accepting no payment, until final 100%payment.
If there is a waiting list, than thats what it is, a list...when they are ready to go, I contact the people in the order they are listed.
They have only one chance at that point. If there is a huge delay and the meeting cannot be arranged, or the funds aren't available,then the person forfeits their place in line, and is probably out of luck till next season.... I think that's fair.
Some breeders selling expensive stock, (albino & Pied balls for example) might be willing to take a number of installments over an agreed period of time. This is fine too,if the exact terms can be agreed by both parties, but custody of the animal does not transfer until pament is made in full.
In deals like that , there must be a high degree of trust in the supplier, but it will be up to the buyer to decide if that trust seems warranted.
Most breeders are good people. Nothing is more important than reputation, and that only comes with fair and honest dealings.
lordkovacs
08-06-03, 10:38 PM
seems like you have a very fair way of dealing Roy... guess that's what gives you the great rep! cheers,
MIKE
BoidKeeper
08-06-03, 10:50 PM
Great post Roy. I've had a few people over to the house but the room is off limits for all but a few. People have to remember that breeders are just that, not stores which are open to the public.
Cheers,
Trevor
Piebald Guy
08-11-03, 07:06 AM
Quote from Lord...
"i put down a deposit to Mardy for a snake to be brought down in a couple weeks. i know he has a good rep. and I know people that know him on a personal level. I don't think it's uncommon, especially when everyoen seems to know one another"
Lord, who is Mardy? Are you refering to boa?
lordkovacs
08-11-03, 04:15 PM
piebald... no, not boas... pythons. carpets to be more specific. he is in the ottawa area, and has some nice stuff. pretty good guy from what people have been telling me. he is a member, with "mardy" as his handle. cheers,
MIKE
Originally posted by Piebald Guy
Quote from Lord...
"i put down a deposit to Mardy for a snake to be brought down in a couple weeks. i know he has a good rep. and I know people that know him on a personal level. I don't think it's uncommon, especially when everyoen seems to know one another"
Lord, who is Mardy? Are you refering to boa?
I'd say mardy is mardy, another sSnakeSs user.
Piebald Guy
08-12-03, 08:37 AM
When I posted the quote I was inquiring if lord was referring to the person with the nickname "boa" has the actual given name of Marty (you know like in real life.... "boa"'s real name is Marty?). But if he is refering to someone else my apologies.
reverendsterlin
08-12-03, 08:55 AM
another 'protection' for the buyer is to purchase with a credit card, in many instances the card company will handle disputes in a manner that strictly follows the law protecting both the buyer and seller.
Scales Zoo
08-12-03, 09:19 AM
We've dealt with Shawn in the past, and so far everything has been working out o.k.
Thanks alot for the kind words and sheila these adult boas are great.we plan on coming up real soon can't wait to check your place out finally it well be a nice road trip.
I also want to thank everyone who replied. I feel a lot better now after reading all that you have had to say. Thank you folks.
Boa--I can't wait!
No problem nic "chris" i am happy we worked this out you will be very happy with this pair see you soon.
THANK-YOU
spyderman
08-13-03, 03:44 PM
I went to a breeder to get our corns. He didn't ask for any money up front, I then spent the next 2hrs looking at ALL his collection & we had a gr8 chat. If I wasn't allowed to see even just the snake before buying, I wouldn't even bother. My advice: Look else where!
spyderman
08-13-03, 03:51 PM
This breeder may be genuin & from the posts I have read, it is common practice. Im just saying you cant be too careful these days. Perhaps you can find others who have dealt with the same breeder, just for extra re-assurance.
lordkovacs
08-13-03, 04:06 PM
spyderman...I think the original post's intent was to check if Boa is legit. Boa has been breeding a while and has a great reputation. There are a few people on this thread that highly recommend him, including me. He's honest, and willing to go that extra mile. I can see though, with you being in the UK it would be hard to know many breeders in Canada. So, if anyone is interested in dealing with him, he comes recommended. Cheers all, have a great one!
MIKE
Thanks mike but i have not been breeding snakes for awhile just starting to breed. i also i have a long wait with alot of my higher end boas. this year should be great it's a waiting game lol lets hope for the best for all the breeders out there and myself.
Colonel SB
08-14-03, 09:08 AM
Same here Boa is a good guy I got my Blood Hybrid off him he is no scam artist :)
spyderman Its nice the breeder gave you that opportunity but by "looking elsewhere" if someone refuses it you are alienating yourself from some of the best breeders in the world. Most people just simply won't allow it and it has nothing to do with being shady.
Not trying to change your mind, but basically I would almost trust someone MORE if they didn't show every single person they meet their collection. It says something about what they want out of their reptiles if you ask me. But thats just me, IMHO. :)
Marisa
justinO
08-14-03, 10:43 AM
Boa, you are a good businessman, and a great guy to deal with. I think it's good that Nic posted this board.. that way, They got confirmation of your business practices, and you got a ton of references in case this ever comes up again.
thanks alot guy's for the kind words it makes us feel great and we are happy we help alot of you's out with your needs.
THANK-YOU
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