All you milksnake owners....

[wyz]

I just love the coloration on many variety of milksnakes..

Problem is,,, I don't wanna have only one snake per enclosure..

I khow we're not supposed to keep these snakes together, but I'm still curious.. Do any of you guys successfully keep more than one milksnake per enclosure ?

I'm wondering if this rule is a myth ou a fact.. maybe milksnakes in nature eat themselves, but in captivity, if they are fed often, maybe it's different.

Please tell me your good or bad experiences if some of you ever tried this.

If so.. any important rules to follow to keep more than one milksnake ?

Thanks.

WYZ

[BWSmith]

Milksnakes are ophidiophages. You risk ending up with just one very full snake.

[reverendsterlin]

two snake eaters in the same cage is too much risk for me to place my animals in.

[Invictus]

Fed well or not, King snakes and milk snakes are cannibals. I guarantee you, it is not a myth. You house them together, you can forget about having two milksnakes. Why would you want to put your snakes at risk like that anyway?

They can live well in a 20 gallon enclosure, so don't be cheap. Buy two enclosures. It's the least you can do if you actually give a damn about your snakes.

[wyz]

I don't wan't to put them at risk at all don't worry I was just hoping someone would tell me that it's only a myth.

We can read a lot of books but I like it when I can read real stories. You know how myths can start.. they are called milksnakes because they were seen close to cows and farmers thought they were milk drinkers.. It's untrue, but today they are still called milksnakes. Maybe the first guys who imported them had 100 starving snakes in a cage and when he got home he had only 90 left and then started the myth that they eat each others.. We never know were these things start..

I like to test things and look at other ways to do things. If someone tells me not to do something, I allways ask WHY and I want proof....

I'd never put animals at risk doing these experiments, but I'm allways curious about new ways... Herpology is pretty new compared to other sciences, we can't beleive everything that we read.

In my mind, I'm pretty sure that 2 milksnake of the same size can live together without any danger... But I'd never try it unless many people tell me that they do it successfully.

WYZ

[marisa]

Just out of curiosity why do you think they can live together? I don't know of anyone who thinks they can.

I would say if you place two milksnakes together there is a VERY high chance you will have one milksnake regardless of how full they are/how often you feed.

They really are snake killers and eaters just like kings.

Marisa

[Invictus]

I can understand your skepticism. I question everything as well. Still, I hope you don't experiment with it.

[wyz]

Invictus, I wouldn't try it.. cause of the loss of money propably involved and in respect for these animals. Thanks for understading my "skepticism" I think this is what makes people more curious, thus more eager to learn.

Marisa, maybe you don't know anyone who thinks they can, but I'm sure they haven't tried it either... like I said, if they are saying this in books, for sure they are based on true stories, but in what conditions... ?

Still waiting for some stories... hope their are some somewhere ! :)

WYZ

Anywayz, I'm not arguying with you guys, I'm just keeping an open mind and not beleiving everything I read.

[marisa]

I think people most certainly have tried it. Especially years and years ago when they were first starting out with milksnakes.

Its easy to see cannabilism in milksnakes. Hatch out a clutch and wait. You'll end up with less babies.

I don't think it has anything to do with being in books. It's common knowledge that kings and milks kill and eat other snakes. Not because we have read it but becuse it can be easily seen and many many stories out there about this from first hand people. I have never kept milks aside from one Pueblan, I also keep kingsnakes. I was raised in California so I don't think I have to tell you that my family has seen kingsnakes kill and eat other snakes before here and there over the years and heard stories, we once found a kingsnake eating another snake although both were dead and seemed ripped apart near the road.

I am not argueing either but its kinda one of those things that can be proven so easily there isn't really much arguement available anyways. ya know? I think most of us are just saying that no one tries it anymore because you end up losing stock/money/or your pet.

Marisa

[reverendsterlin]

ok you want a story, I'll give you one. I have a sinaloan and prior to seperation with a partner we also had gotten a pair of candycanes from Rich Z. I had a tank that was split into 2 sections, the candycane was the larger snake on one side the milk on the other and a screen lid on the tank. I was lucky and entered the room after the milk had somehow squeezed under the top to the other side and was able to unconstrict him from the candycane before any damage was done but still it was only luck that prevented a disaster (that tank was gone the next day).

[Stockwell]

It's more than the fact that Milks are Kingsnakes.
Snakes just plain aren't tropical fish. Having community tanks is a nice fantasy, but it just doesn't work long term with most serpents.

Other than the fact they may eat each other, there are other issues. Even if they were boids or ratsnakes, feeding accidents can still happen, even if they are fed separately outside the enclosure, because they will carry the rodent scent back to the main cage, unless you take the time to soap them down and clean all odour off them.
Another issue is sickness and disease. If one gets sick , has bloody feces or regurges, the entire tank will probably get sick.
How will you know which animal is in trouble, when you find a pile of questional stuff in the cage floor???

Snakes need to be housed separately , other than brief encounters for breeding purposes, and even those can be risky.

I have observed numberous occassions when supposed breedings almost become feedings. Even with some Pythons, like D'alberts... I left the room for a minute, came back and courting had turned into one angry White Lipped feeding frenzy Ball!! LOL

I had to toss them in a cold shower to split them up, then they both chomped into me. A combined 14 feet of pure terror

I once made the mistake of housing several baby balls together.
Much to my shock one of them ate one of the others, and then tossed it up a day later as the meal was to big...total waste!!

HOUSE SNAKES SEPARATELY, THEY"RE NOT TETRAS!!

[crimsonking]

Actually, some peolpe DO keep milks together. Ask Bob Applegate. I have had sinaloans together for weeks at a time, same with pueblans and gray bands. Mostly during the breeding months, but at other times as well. I would not , however, ever recommend it to anyone else. The getula are maybe more canniballistic than the triangulum in general, but who would want to risk losing any snake just "to see if they can live together"? Keeping them seperate is really a good idea if you want to breed them, so you'll know for sure (timewise) when they have been together and when to expect eggs.
:Mark

[Will]

I was about to mention Bob Applegate as an example, but crimsonking beat me to it. If you can find a copy of this year's REPTILES magazine annual edition(I have a copy, but not with me, so the month slips my mind but it's this year and I think there is a chameleon on the cover), there is a great article where he mentions that he keeps his Milks in pairs for prolonged periods, and has for years without any ill effects. I'm not advocating the practice per-se, and I doubt I would try it myself, but it can and has been successfully done.

[marisa]

I just don't understand why.

Why would you keep any snakes together period. I do not know.

But yes I also have heard about the Bob Applegate thing in reptiles mag. I want to read it for sure.

Marisa

[Ace]

Will's right, it's in the 2003 Annual (no month). He states "only have one male in each group. Two males may engage in combat and injure each other." He also says that he has had one instance where a female (Cal king) would try eating a certain male. He states that the getulas are more prone to eat each other, but ALL kings are capable of it. I personally wouldn't put 2 of my snakes together, knowing the possible outcome ;).

[crimsonking]

Yeah, I have a female Cal. king that I got BECAUSE she ate the albino male. My friend said to come and get 'em all. I have to watch her VERY closely because she attacks my male every year. If he's not ready for a "fight" then I seperate them. He's actually bigger but more mellow. If he gets her first, then everything will work out breeding -wise. He can hold her down long enough to get the job done, but I have to watch very closely so that when they're done, I can seperate them. I know she would kill and eat him if I didn't.
:Mark

[Tim_Cranwill]

I had a male and female cal king together for a few days for breeding. When I was going to take the male out to return him ot his box, I decided to change the female's paper and water. I put the female into the smae box with the male and within seconds she had his head in her mouth and had him all wrapped up to go! It was a LOT toughter than I thought it would be go get his head out of her mouth.

So, you can watch them all you want but you never know...