Have you ever been sold the wrong sex?

[BoidKeeper]

If so, how was it handled? Who do you think is responsible when a herp is sold sexed and it turns out to be wrong? What do you think should be done about it?
Thanks,
Trevor

[Canadaherp]

do mail order brides count eh' ?

[Clownfishie]

Ideally, if an animal is sold as a certain sex and is discovered to have been sexed incorrectly, I feel that it should be replaced with an animal of the correct sex. Obviously this would have to happen within a reasonable amount of time though -- I recently discovered that 2 of my "male" leos were both females -- both were sold to me as visually sexed. One of them, I can understand how the mistake was made -- she has very pronounced bulges at the base of her tail, which indicated to both myself and the breeder that she was a male... however, when at almost 2 years of age "he" still hadn't produced any babies when put in with females, and subsequently laid infertile eggs when separated into "his" own tank, it became obvious that he was actually a she ;) This happened almost a year and a half after I purchased the animal, and this is obviously a bit too long of an amount of time to have elapsed to expect anything to be done about it... Pretty much the same situation with the other "boy"... it wasn't until almost a year after purchase that I discovered that "he" was a she...
So, personally I'd say that if it is discovered within a reasonable amount of time that an animal has been incorrectly sexed, that the seller should be responsible in some way for either replacing the animal, or taking it back with a refund, or at the very least offering a correctly sexed animal at a discounted price...

Just my .02 :)
Jen

[BoidKeeper]

Great input Jen, thanks.
Trevor

[Stockwell]

Well, Yes this can be a complex issue. It's happened to me many times in the early years, and as recently as 2 years ago when I had a promised "pair" of conicus sand boas dropped off for me at a show, in my absence. Of course the pair were two males, but I don't really blame the seller, as herpers often don't know how to sex their animals, and in this case of the sand boas they were bought from a petstore out of province and they were bought in good faith as a pair...

Also some animals are quite difficult to sex as neonates, and it takes experience and exposure to several specimens to check characteristics.
It also takes correct lighting and good eyes.
In all honesty people, you have to take some responsibility to sex your own animals when you buy them,or shortly after or buy only from trusted suppliers.
It's true it takes experience with a species to become accurate at determining gender, but I think more effort and observation is required by all herpers, and as part of the pre-buy research that is usually done, into husbandry requirements, herpers should try to at least ascertain how gender is determined, and what to look for.

The best time to hone your expertise and get good at gender determination is when you have a group and can compare features.
Also the first time you breed something, greater effort should be taken in close observation of all attributes, Tail length, tail geometry, spurs, preanal pores,femoral pores, bulges...etc, etc.

Trying to fix gender screw ups with a supplier, months or years after the sale is problematic. To start with genders are not always produced equally and the correct sex may not always be readily available. Breeders generally don't have replacements available, as neonate are generally moved to market fast, and not stocked all months of the year .
Also, another point in defence of automatic replacement is that snakes don't have serial numbers. A supplier might refuse to provide a swap thinking someone is pulling a fast one, and simply wants another female.
This is even more of a problem if we're talking about specimens that are het for some valuable attribute.(like albino or Pied balls)
As a breeder , how do you know the said animal really came from you, and you're not being asked to correct someone elses mistake?
Micro chipping and photographing expensive animals is starting to be done, and this is helpful, but not widespread. Also once an animal is in somebody elses collection for any length of time, a breeder wont want it back, because it would need to be quarantined.
Just a few things to think about.
I think it is in most suppliers best interest to take care to provide properly sexed animals, but accidents can happen.
Like anything else, protect yourself by educating yourself, and kick the tires before you buy.
PS
Jen, Leos should always be sexed by preanal pores not bulges. I sex them at 2 or 3 weeks, but you need moderate light aimed from the side and a loup eyepiece. The V shape pores above the vent are slightly raised in males, even in very young leos.. The more you pratice, the younger you can sex them, and the higher accuracy you will attain.

[reverendsterlin]

over the years I have only had 3 mis-sexed purchases. Fortunately all were purchased from breeders and each was happy to replace with the correct sex, one guy even after 8 months had passed before the mistake was discovered. I would not expect the same from a petstore or a small hobbist that only breeds a few each year.

[Lisa]

I had a corn missexed but she was free and i couldn't complain about that could I? It was basicly "Do you want this corn for free? I think it's male." Needless to say I took the corn and was delighted to learn he was a she. I still need a mate for it though. LOL

[Oliverian]

Lol someone gave you a corn for free? I wish I had your friends! :p I'm pretty new to keeping snakes, and I havn't had any miss-sexing yet, but I'm probably likely to mistake the sexes myself. I'm getting better though. :)

[Lisa]

Originally posted by Oliverian
Lol someone gave you a corn for free? I wish I had your friends! :p I'm pretty new to keeping snakes, and I havn't had any miss-sexing yet, but I'm probably likely to mistake the sexes myself. I'm getting better though. :)

Corn snake, not maize. :P

[Tim_Cranwill]

I bought an adult pair of cal kings and both turned out to be females and both became egg-bound. When I emailed the "supplier" he didn't even respond. That pissed me off. :(

I also got a ball python from a respected breeder that was sexed wrong or mixed up and the breeder was more than willing to rectify the situation almost a year later. :)

"Buyer beware" is right though. Accidents happen. Animals can mistaken for the other sex and it helps to find information like that out right away so both parties have time to act on the situation. If you drive away from the MacDonald's drive-through window with the wrong burger and come back two minutes later, I bet you a million bucks they will do something about it. But if you came to the window and said "Um, I bought a Big Mac meal last month and you guys gave me a Fillet-O-Fish instead." I think you'd find it tough to get the problem fixed

[Colonel SB]

I have had a few wrongly sex animals and you know what I don't find it a big deal we are all human and make misstakes! Now having said that it's what the person does after they have been told about thier mistake, needless to say that if they do not own up to thier mistake I will no longer do busniess with that person and let all my friends know about thier crappy busniess practices.

[V.hb]

my advice is learning to sex the animals yourself before purchasing anything... It really isnt hard to make a pretty good "guess" on a snakes gender just by looking at its vent/spurs etc....... Probing is simple, just need to be gentle and have the snake in a low stress relaxed enviroment. If you are paying to have an animal shipped to you, that's a different case. Make sure you know the supplier you're purchasing from. My advice is to go through one person. or contact someone else that you may know in the area and have them do an educated guess as well before shipping occurs.

[jncoclub]

What the poll lacks is the 5th option to choose "herp was missexed, but kept it and love it anyway". That would be my answer- twice.

[OttawaChris]

Yah I had this happen once... I bought a bag of socks at Zellers that were labelled "Mens 10-13 sport socks"

They turned out to be tiny footed women's tennis socks. It really sucked because I only bought the socks to avoid having to do laundry... there I was at am just out of bed for work and half asleep without so much as a drop of coffee in me trying to pull socks onto my big hairy hobbit feet that barely fit over my toes. I was not impressed!! LOL

Zellers gave me an exchange with no hassle beyond laughing at me. Thats my story.

[JD@reptiles]

i got a "Female" Ball that turned out to, and the manager basically told me to go f*ck myself. never bought anything their agian, never even talk about it till now.