handling "nippy" snakes

[rwg]

Hello all,

I've got a corn snake, but I'm looking at getting a medium sized boid for my second snake. Not anytime soon, but I'm an obsessive personality and I like to do my research first. :) I'm a bit naive about handling practices so...

I'm wondering how you handle snakes that are a bit on the agressive side. For example, I have read that Macklott's pythons (which I find absolutely beautiful) are nippy as juveniles, and can often be agressive even as sub-adults, but will tame down as adults with regular handling. I would expect as juvies getting bit is not going to be a real problem. Handle them, and take bites...it wont hurt much anyway. When they start getting bigger if they're still bitey, what do you do? Take your lumps? Use a hook? Are there freehandling techniques to avoid bites?

Thanks

[Pookie]

well i have a rainbow boa which are also known to be nippy as juveniles. I've had her bite me 3 times in one day. But, after the incident, i began to handle her more and more and i haven't had a bite since. You've gotta make the snake feel like it's not being threatened. Use slow movements to gain their respect for you. And although the bites won't hurt until the snake gets bigger, it's never a good idea to just let it go. Try to handle them as much as possible, that's all i can really say and they will usually grow out of the nippy stage. Good luck!

[ohh_kristina]

hooks and gloves work wonders

[Mike177]

well i would just get it as a very yong hatchling and just kinda hold it as much as possoble and it will probly calm down quite nicely

[unBOAlievable]

First off I have to tell you agressive snakes are my favorite,
but I do not think there is anyway to learn how to work with aggressive snakes other than experience with them. You have to learn every snakes personality because they all differ even amongst the same species.

Starting with neonates is your best bet, that away you learn as the snake grows. I will say I do not like handeling neonates to much until they are around 6 months of age and eating well.

I would get a good set of hooks and learn to use them, even if it is only with your cornsnake you can still get the hang of hooking.
Practice makes perfect.

There are methods for freehandeling nonvenomous and it just comes down to being able to read the snake and what it is going to do next, again it takes practice. Sometimes a little pain and discomfort.

Hope this helps, and a parting note, I have never been bit by a snake that I did not trust.

[Invictus]

Some species of aggressive snake never calm down. From what I've heard, Macklotts are one of them. But, every snake is different. I know people with calm ETBs, and they are known for being aggressive. I think a few people on here have calm bloods, white lips, etc.

More handling CAN, but doesn't ALWAYS calm a snake down.

[mikemcguire]

Like said before, the best way to "tame" a snake (even tho that statement is a bit redundant) is to handle them alot. My baby burm was very nippy when i firts got her, there was one point in time i couldnt attempt to grab here without getting struck at. I just bought a pair of gardening gloves for 2 dollars and handled her. She is still young, only 3 months but she sometimes jumps when i go to pick her up, but after that shes a doll. Handle handle handle, even if they bite, they will eventually stop. Instinct..if you keep handling even if it strikes it will eventually stop (however there are oddballs to the rules).

Good Luck

[burmer]

Just keep handling it. Don't put it down just because it bites. If it knows you'll put it down when it bites it will always bite. I agree hooks and gloves are a great idea.

[lordkovacs]

small hoooks and gloves are good I hear.... I asked a friend who has many many nippy snakes. good luck.

[ReptiZone]

No such thing as a agresif snake no mater what it dose to you I have a 6 foot retic that bit me on the neck an it is not a agresif snake.

[Andy_G]

In my personal opinion, hooks should be left for hots and gloves are just silly to have in most cases. Usually just simply picking them up and holding them gently is the key to taming them. Let them do what they want in your hands and don't restrain them and they will learn you are not a predator.

[wyz]

For sure some snakes are categorised as "agressive" but even in these species you have tame and nippie "individuals".

Find the specie you want, then put as much time to chose your snake as an indivudual.

I allways buy them very young and I handle them without gloves or hooks. I know that it wouldn't be safe depending on the size of older snakes, but my longests are about 3 feet now, so a bite will hurt, but not too much.

My favorites are my nippiest,, my ATBs.. it can take me sometimes about 5 minutes to take them out of their enclosure. With gloves I'd do it in 10 seconds, but taking longer is more fun.. That how you learn to read them.

And repeating what someone wrote once on another forum, it's often the stupid move we make while removing our hands from the enblosure that causes pain when we hit the corn og the cage and not the actual bite :)

WYZ

[rwg]

Originally posted by wyz
My favorites are my nippiest,, my ATBs.. it can take me sometimes about 5 minutes to take them out of their enclosure. With gloves I'd do it in 10 seconds, but taking longer is more fun.. That how you learn to read them.

Thanks for the info WYZ. Excuse my ingorance, but what about it takes 5 minutes?

RG

[MontyPython]

Originally posted by chondro python
No such thing as a agresif snake no mater what it dose to you I have a 6 foot retic that bit me on the neck an it is not a agresif snake.


So by that logic you're saying that venomous snakes aren't aggressive?

[ReptiZone]

Yes with that logic I mean venomous are not aggresive. tell me this if you are walking in the woods and see a rattler 12 feet away do you think it will get up and chase you....NO.

Now if you start being as stupied as some ppl out there and try to pic it up well that is your fault. Doun't mistake deffensivenes for aggresiveness.

[reptilesalonica]

Some species of aggressive snake never calm down. From what I've heard, Macklotts are one of them. But, every snake is different. I know people with calm ETBs, and they are known for being aggressive. I think a few people on here have calm bloods, white lips, etc.
That's right, plus Taiwan beauties. Mine is a very strange snake, i handle her and some days she is tamer than others. I never handle her until 2 days are passed from the time she eats and never when she has the blue eyes.
'
I observe that tree dweling spp. are more aggressive and more energetic with higher metabolism rates, than those that use to live on ground.
~Greg~

[MontyPython]

Chondro,
snakes would not be able to survive if they weren't aggressive. How do they catch food? They strike out and kill the animal, either by constriction, or poison. Is that not being aggressive?

[ReptiZone]

No that is just hungry when you load a 12 guage shoot gun to shoot a deer is it Becaus you are agressive or is it cause you are hungry for deer meat during the winter.

I have beaten this debat with a stick several times B4 and you will never change the way I think There is no agressive snake in the world just ppl that think they are agressive Because they are not skilled enugh to handel them.

You see a snake is like a lady you need to know how to approch them you dont just jump'em throw them in a bag and call your self a pro.

For example a snake can be nice cool calm collected one min and then BAM sadistic snake and well a woman.... well I am not puting that foot in my mouth but you get my point. A snake needs to be approched gently and handeled softly but never trusted caus they can all just jump to NO I wana go back Home (Cage). And a woman well I am not gonna eat my left foot after I just saved my right foot. All in All you need to visualise the situation B4 actualy making contac with the animal in question now you can have 10 MIN. as well as 10 SEC. but te ruls remain dont touch it till you see it (if you can't see the way it will end then you dont touch it) same way of thinking when you enter the affter grade party you dont jump the prom queen just caus it sound like it could be fun even if you did visualise taking a long cold shower after the boy friend gave you a shiner and a busted index finger. It is just not a cool thing to do like why risk it.
Same way of thinking here why risk handeling the "AGRESSIVE'' snake with no experience...And only experience will show you that there is no "AGRESSIVE" snake just some nervous, highly defensive snakes in consequence more CHALENGING and not "AGRESSIVE".

you see snake handeling is more an art then any thing else it looks easy but in all realit it is a real chalange if you use the right snake to acomadate your level.

There is some ppl that jump in and take the good with the bad and tell them selves I will learn as I go....These are your corn snake and BCI ppl.

Then you have ppl that are timide and say I just like they way it looks and I want a "NICE" or "NOT AGRESSIVE" snake....these are your ball python rosy boas and so on..... ppl.

then you have ppl a bit more advanced and keep bothe types of snakes at once in a room and master there husbandry skills buy caring for more then one "EASY" or "NOT AGRESSIVE" animals.

Fast foward 5 years down the road they want something more interesting more pazzase more nipy more ''AGRESSIVE''.
So they venture don the line to eventualy find real snakes not that the others a fake but you see you have....snakes..and then you have......SNAKES.

now we fall in the Carpet's, Chondro's, Emeralds, Burms, retic's, Anaconda, Bloods.....and so on and so on these are the dreaded cursed "AGRESSIVE" ones. and many years after that you can fall into the hot's.

sorry so long but I wanted to prove my case and I was not about to argue bac and forth so I put it all in one reply. feal free to question or chalenge my way of thinking even if I do belive it is rather rock solid but it is said we can even learn from the newbies so have fun.


Chondro Python :cool:

[MontyPython]

Dude, that is NOT just hungry! snakes aren't like sloths where they have all the time in the world to get food, they spend their days sunnying themselves on rocks so they can have energy to catch their food, it wastes A LOT of their energy for them to catch food so they must be aggressive in the way they go about getting their food.

I think that if you piss off any of them then they might become more aggressive but like a lil garter snake isn't going to strike you like a rattler.

May I suggest some spelling and grammar courses to get a better grip of the english language?

I am very skilled at handling snakes, been doing it since i was 9, I am 25 now, i'd say that's a lot of time to learn how to handle snakes, even the aggressive ones, such as gopher snakes and such.

For not thinking snakes are aggressive you sure used the word a lot in your post, even describing the big constricting snakes, like the Emerald Tree and Blood python which, ARE AGGRESSIVE!!!!!!!

As far as i am concerened you haven't proven that snakes aren't aggressive. If you still don't think any species of snake is aggressive may i suggest you go hug your local cobra, then come back and tell me how non-aggressive it was.

Can't wait to hear your reply, I think this is a rather interesting debate!

Brian

[ReptiZone]

The way I see the meaning of aggressive is when a animal jumps you with no aparent reason like walking in the woods and seeing a rattler and then bang he jumps out at you. We all know thats not how it happens. You would need to provoke it.

No animal will go out of its way to chase and kill one of us for the sheer pleasure of doing it. I feel the only species of animal that is aggressive is the human.

Reason being the human, is the only animal that will hunt for sport instead of food, which may not seem aggressive, but then again a human is the only human that will sit up in a dark room and contemplate for 6 months how hes gonna climb a tower and randomly murder people.

You wont find any species of snake that will randomly come out at any human just for the fun of it.

Lets make something clear, when i CAP LOCK a word and place it in quotation marks, it means im being sarcastic.

now we fall in the Carpet's, Chondro's, Emeralds, Burms, retic's, Anaconda, Bloods.....and so on and so on these are the dreaded cursed "AGRESSIVE" ones. and many years after that you can fall into the hot's.

Notice how i was being sarcastic with the word aggressive. Yes, these specimens are bit more nippy and nervous but they are not aggressive. (im sorry i may not of posted it clearly enough, and may have confused a bit of people in the process)

As far as i am concerened you haven't proven that snakes aren't aggressive. If you still don't think any species of snake is aggressive may i suggest you go hug your local cobra, then come back and tell me how non-aggressive it was

Why would anybody in their right mind want to hug a cobra???

For someone thats been doing this hobby, you know as well as i do that we are so much bigger than SOME cobras (excluding the king cobra) and for such a big creature to bend down and play (hug) such a small dangerous animal, your stressing it for needless reasons therefore setting yourself up to receive a defensive behavior. For example, When you encounter these species in the wild,and remain at a respectable distance, they wont chase(sign of aggression) you! Therefore they are NOT an aggressive snake. Simply because there are no aggressive snakes.

Hopefully i cleared up some of my views.

Chondro Python

[reverendsterlin]

lol, if it ain't hot, take your lumps

[MontyPython]

Originally posted by chondro python
The way I see the meaning of aggressive is when a animal jumps you with no aparent reason like walking in the woods and seeing a rattler and then bang he jumps out at you. We all know thats not how it happens. You would need to provoke it.



Not necessarily, Rattlesnakes sometimes strike with no apparent reason.


But what if you are holding a snake, and for no apparent reason it bites you?

You think that the only species of animal that is aggressive is human? What about bears, and sharks, and dogs, and tigers, and lions, and alligators, and crocodiles, and etc.....

I still don't see how snakes aren't aggressive, i guess we are going to agree to disagree and that's fine with me!

The cobra comment was meant as a joke, as i know no one in their right mind would willing go up to and hug a cobra!

Chondro, does this or any of my last post make any sense or add to the validity of my point of view of snakes being aggressive?
I'd love to continue this debate further...

Brian

[tHeGiNo]

Monty, I think what he is trying to say is that being aggressive and being defensive aretwo different things. You mentioned rattle snakes biting for no reason. Well if you are close enough for the snake to bite you then you are close enough to scare him and close enough for him to defend itself the only way it knows how to. Aggression can be defined as tending or disposed to aggress; characterized by aggression; making assaults; unjustly attacking. I think the key word there is unjustly attacking. I do not see a snake biting an animate object much larger then itself as being unjust. Rather I see it as an action through fear and defense, the only method of defense it knows. We could define defensive as intending to withstand or deter aggression or attack. I think this better describes why or why not a snake is prone to bite. I think it revolves around its understanding of the human and learning to 'trust.' Therefore I agree with Condro here.

[tHeGiNo]

Also bears are aggressive because it wants to eat you, as are lions, as are crocodiles. Those animals are biting to kill in most cases. In others, it is defense. Those aren't very fair animals to compare a snake bite with. Snakes aren't biting you to kill you as a food source.

[ReptiZone]

Thank you the Gino for clearing up some point's I could not explain properly.

I must say thow monty python you have a verry good debat and verry well detailed and informative. I think I found where most if the wiers are crossed on this issue thow tell me if this makes sence OK.

When a person has canser The Doctor will say we are gona treat this canser in a verry aggressive maner they mean they are gona hit it with all they have and make sure it dosent come back.

Well a snake can deffend it sell in a verry agressive maner also when it dos bit you it will hurt and they will hit you with all they got to insure you dont come back for a second treatment.

But this is how the untrained eye see's it...

Deffending it self in a aggressive maner===> aggressive snake.

well that is the total wrong way to look at it.

[MontyPython]

Originally posted by chondro python

I feel the only species of animal that is aggressive is the human.



Gino, the reference to Lions, Bears and Crocodiles being aggressive was because Chondro says that only humans are aggressive, so i wasn't comparing them to a snake being aggressive.

Deffending it self in a aggressive maner===> aggressive snake.

well that is the total wrong way to look at it.

And why is that the total wrong way to look at it? You said earlier that there is no such thing as an aggressive snake, yet you just post now that a snake defending itself in an aggressive manner is an aggressive snake, so are you contradicting yourself?

Brian

[Linds]

Originally posted by ohh_kristina
hooks and gloves work wonders

Hooks are a great tool for handling snakes, its easier on the keeper and most snakes do not have much of a reaction to them as it is a foreign object, not a predator (LOL... though I have seen burms wrap hooks before :p ). Gloves on the other hand are a no-no, unless they are snake-proof. Gardening gloves and the like can easily harm a snake. The snake can snag a tooth and rip it out of injure itself on any of those cloth-like materials.

[ReptiZone]

Do us all a fevor when you quote something I say quote the whole idea.
I said....

But this is how the untrained eye see's it...

Deffending it self in a aggressive maner===> aggressive snake.

well that is the total wrong way to look at it.

And you why well...

How would you feal if you were threntend then you opend a can of whope @$$ on the person and then all your friends thaught you were aggressive for the rest of your life.

now that is not a good exempel because I just said that only humans were aggressive. I am using you as a exemple.

snakes don't wake up one morning with intent to kill for no aparent reason Humans on the other hand will wake up and start to plote how thay are gona gun down there teacher's and the rest of the student boddy. you see my point now.

[MontyPython]

No, i STILL don't see your point.

Using me as an example is bad, cause you don't even know me, so how can you predict what i will or won't do? LOL, my friends already know that I am aggressive

I quoted what I thought was appropriate in my discussion, if you feel I was wrong, too bad. You said it, I quoted it.

Still haven't convinced me that snakes aren't aggressive and that only humans are aggressive, sorry I don't think you ever will!

Do me a favor and learn some grammar, seriously it gives me a head ache when i try and read your posts, I understand what you are trying to say, but it is quite difficult to interpret what you are saying sometimes. I mean that in the nicest way possible I hope you know =)

Come on, I want to hear some more thoughts that snakes and other such animals aren't aggressive!

Brian Martin

[tHeGiNo]

Monty, what he is saying is that when a snake bites, it is not out of aggession. I don't think he is saying there is no aggression in snakes.

[MontyPython]

Originally posted by chondro python
No such thing as a agresif snake no mater what it dose to you I have a 6 foot retic that bit me on the neck an it is not a agresif snake.


Yes he is Gino, that's how this whole debate got started!

[ReptiZone]

OH I might have faild to mention that he didnt just wake up one morning and say I am gona bite chondro.
It was my fault I got biten I did not take the proper precautions I went from laid back boa to newly aquierd and also nervous retic. It was a recipe for a blody boody part. Retic's are Retic's you need to take your lumps or stitche what ever what ever the case may be if you want to have them. Cause whether we like it or not we will be hit sooner or later it is not the snakes fault if we are not doing things right.

there is 2 kind of herpers in the world the one's that wave ben biten and the one's that will be biten.

it is not a snakes aggrresion that gets us biteh it is human stupidaty that gets biten. If we know better but don't do it and get biten well tough luck I dont pitty thows ppl wether it is a corn or retic or a king cobra.

we set our selves up to deal with this then when we get biten we should not be blaming the snakes aggression caus most likly we get biten that means we are too close for the animals comfort and if we get hit well that means we are dame close.

animals are not aggressive they are affraid and when they are affraid the deffend them selves and ppl call it aggression well it is not aggression it is called fear.

[tHeGiNo]

Ok to clear things up, when he says they aren't aggressive I am pretty sure he is saying they aren't aggressive towards humans, and therefore when they bite us it isn't through aggression. Im sure he will agree that they possess a different kind of aggression when referring to capturing prey, for a decent example.

[ReptiZone]

well pf cors they have a aggressive feeding responce but that in no way means the snake is aggressive. Man ball pythons can have an aggressive feeding responce. But you dont see ppl bradinding them as aggressive snakes.

So plz tell me why a snake that has a Active deffence in stead of a pasive deffence branded a aggressive snake.

[MontyPython]

Originally posted by chondro python
well pf cors they have a aggressive feeding responce but that in no way means the snake is aggressive. Man ball pythons can have an aggressive feeding responce. But you dont see ppl bradinding them as aggressive snakes.

So plz tell me why a snake that has a Active deffence in stead of a pasive deffence branded a aggressive snake.

A passive defensive snake is a dead snake, that's why! Chondro, are you saying that no snake, no matter how big, or how small, venomous or non is not aggressive?

I'm still not a believer in the no snake is aggressive theory. How about we say there are different levels of aggression when it comes to snakes? Such as they have an aggressive feeding response, I know my ball python does. Also, they have an aggressive defence, they bite you when you get too close, some without being provoked. Your snake that bit you was acting out in a defensive aggressive behavior. No? I hope this has cleared a few things up about aggressive snakes. Chondro, you had some good arguements and I think we have both learned a little in this situation. Can you see where I am coming from now? Snakes are aggressive to a degree. If you have anything more to add, be my guest!

Brian Martin

sign your real name for once though! hahahah

[ReptiZone]

a ball python has a passive deffence it balls up to deffend it self. Retic's mock strike and bite to deffend them selves. that is the diffrence.

and yes I have some good points even with my crapy gramer and bad ways of explainig my self.

I also see that you are seeing my points. you just seem to use the term aggressive too loosly witch I think we all do some times even I slip and say a snake is more aggressive then others.

I think you will see my point the next time you get biten and say wait a min this is not normaly an aggressive snake what is going on here then you will slap your self up side the head and say that is what "I" did wrong it was not the snakes fault.

this was realy fun debating with you but I do think we under stand each other and have traded some good knowlege for all the ppl that may acctualy take the time to read thei whole thread. so until the next debat.... Remember to count all your fingers B4 AND after handeling a crocodilian over 10 feet LOL just had to sai it.

Marc Doiron

[MontyPython]

Very well said! :D

[tHeGiNo]

Agreed :D And a swell conclusion.

[annoying_alien]

To make it much less hassling to get them
out of the cage, feed them in a cardboard box, or the like, outside the cage.

If you feed it in its cage, most snakes will
get used to things entering the cage being
food. Then you stick your hand in, and OW!

[MontyPython]

Are you speaking from experience or speculation? I have never been bitten by my ball and I reach in his cage everyday to change the water.

[Gary D.]

Just thought I'd throw this into the ring. Bears, Lions and Crocs were listed as agressive in that they have been known to attack man in a predatory fashion, well so have Af-Rocks. I have also known a male Af-rock that would sit peacfully in the corner of his enclosure for most of the time you were in the room. Then slowly move across the cage TOWARDS you. And if you strayed close enough, he would strike the glass hard. That I would classify as agressive, as the snake was the one to innitiate the events.

While I agree that most snakes act agressive to humans in a primarily defensive manner, I don't agree with painting all snakes as "non agressive" on that model. Because that is not 100% true.

GD

[MontyPython]

THANK YOU! Finally someone that agrees with me :D

[Invictus]

Here's what we do with snakes who are either extremely bitey (Like the Vietnamese Blue Beaty pictured here) or for snakes that we have just acquired and don't know of their tendencies yet. Notice the thick warehouse gloves which I wish I was wearing when our new adult albino king decided to attack me:

http://www.invictusart.com/images/Furious4.jpg

[ReptiZone]

manly because I hate gloves this is what I use to handel nippy snakes.