Idiot or???

[marisa]

I am watching a show called "Stings, Fangs and Spines"

They start talking about the venomous keepers in florida and the illegal venomous trade that comes into the state. Then they go to this guys "rehab center" his name was Albert although I didn't catch his last name....first of all they do a tiny segement on Alberts 26 foot "Burmese" python, (CLEARLY a reticulated)

Then they start talking about various hots, and they say he is a herpotologist with 40 years experience. Now maybe he is an expert, hell he could be a hero for all I know but this guy has been bitten in accidents 25 times, once on the face by a various hot (didnt catch it) during a feeding accident. Which yes it happens, but 25 times?

He was free handling all the hots, including the Cobra and a Gaboon Viper. I didn't see a hook, and he uses a piece of wood to secure the snakes in their hide boxes for working the cage, placing rats etc, all while opening the cage up with no hook or protection at all. This is how he got bit by the cobra, opened the cage then tried to block the snake in and it bit his hand.

Is this how its done or is this guy just some nut ball?

Marisa

[enso]

Hillbilly Herpetology it's called. He and his practices sound a little undeveloped...

[Mustangrde1]

In all honesty it aint how i do it or most the keepers i know. and 25 bites would make think that might have been a made up number for tv maybe not , but i know of several cases where after a third bite the states Fish and Game Officers took the hots from the person.Most hot keepers I know are extremely careful.

[BWSmith]

I vaguely remember that program from a while back. But I do remember he got tagged by the cobra. And while the cameras are running he opens the cage to show them the snake and then turns around and starts talking to the camera with cage still open! ACK! I also remember him walking with a large gaboon supported only with his hands. Double ACK!

Most keepers use proper handling tools (hooks, tongs etc). And there was no reason for him to freehandle an adult Gaboon except to act tough for the camera. Unfortunately, it is the irresponsible keepers that get publicity. I want to see the episode of something when it shows perfect husbandry of hots and all the snakes go in trap boxes :) "Look at that. I didn't even have pull one out of its cage". But I don't think it would be a hit with the general public. Just like it is never the headline "Venomous Keeper keeps 20 year track record of safety"

And yes, Mustang, I had hears that FL was basically a 3 trikes and your out for private individuals with permits (may be different if you are affilliated with another entity *shrug*)

[marisa]

Yes BWSmith! He turns around and not only has the cage open but still has a finger waggling around in there! I couldn't believe it!!

Wel what a sad show indeed. It's to bad the people who aren't even doing the most with and for these animals get all the TV spots and help make snakes look worse than they already are.

Marisa

[SCReptiles]

I take a much more relaxed approach on free handling then most venomous keepers, however, 25 bites is completely ridiculous. I would think that he should not be working hots even with the tools. Guys such as Jim Harrison, Ray Hunter, and of course Bill Haast have huge bite numbers under their belts, but they are also doing venom extractions on a regular basis. Jim told me that he milks 600 snakes in a given week and I bet Ray and Bill’s numbers are comparable to that. In dealing with those numbers an occasional bite is to be expected, but there is just no excuse for a keeper to be bitten, period. So for this guy to brag about 25 bites puts a negative light on us all. I wonder if he is still alive. =)

[tabastifur]

I caught that show as well. Some people...

[Snakesafe]

I find it hard to believe that someone would stand with their hand draped over the cage a cobra is sitting in. Correct me if I'm wrong but cobras don't have a reputation of being dosile and tranquil while their owners haphazardly pilfer around the enclosure. I dare say this "handler" (somehow I don't this cat deserves the title of snake handler, herper, etc.) doesn't truly understand the potential that exists on inches from his hand. As a safety professional I can speak to the practice of "unsafe habits" and the usual outcome of practicing them. Never a good outcome!!!

Seems that your question was answered by this goofballs own actions. I would say idiot!

Now, the last time I check well known handlers do not advertise the number of times they have been bit. The only reason so many people know about the number of bites Bill Haast has taken is because that's usually the first question out of every talk show hosts mouth. I don't think Mark O'Shea has ever revealed the number of times he has been bit. Ole' Croccy says he has never taken an bite from a venomous snake. If that be true then that is a record worthing of recognizing. (Personally I don't belive it for a second, but that's just me)

[Mustangrde1]

accidents do happen on occasion and those who deal with it for a livly hood understand that. As to the accidents that happen to a hobbiest one momentary laps of concentration is all it takes.I know of several bites through screen top cages.It does happen and no one is perfect and accidents happen but 25 or more thats to much lack of consentration.

[jay72]

I know Albert very well. He is an excellant snake handler and anybody who knows him will attest to that. The reason for the bites is because he has been performing snake shows in the Everglades for years, that is how he makes his living. Much like the shows that you see overseas with snake charmers. If anybody would see his shows they would realize that this guy knows what he is doing. He also has a tolerance for venoms. He has been around Hots for over 30 years and has one of the largest collections of hot snakes ranging from four large malaysian kings to black mambas, etc.

[marisa]

BWSmith does education shows (correct me if I am wrong) and I don't believe he has been bitten. (again correct me if I am wrong here) So I am not sure if that is a good excuse.

Marisa

[Hamster of Borg]

Personally after one bite I would be probably telling myself I am in the wrong hobby. After 3 or 4, if I even made it that far, I would be out of it completely. Obviously I'm doing something wrong and need to re-examine. What the hell do you tell yourself after 25 bites? I don't know, but there will always be people like this in the community, the best we can do is hope they die quietly in their sleep and not from an envenomation to make us all look bad.

Rav

[The_Omen]

BWSmith does education shows (correct me if I am wrong) and I don't believe he has been bitten. (again correct me if I am wrong here)

Actually, BW has been bitten once, at home in a free handling attempt with a wild caught Naja.

Read about it on the link below. ;)


Naja bite link. (http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22440)

[drewlowe]

LOL omen that naja don't count LMAO

[marisa]

LOL. Yeah it doesn't count. hehehehe

Marisa

[jay72]

Albert does snake shows. He is a showman. He kisses cobras on the head, the kind of things that you see the charmers do overseas. The kind of shows that Bill Haast used to do at the serpentarium every Sunday(catching King Cobras barehanded). He also was involved in venom extraction. He does it on a different level. I am not saying everybody should handle snakes this way and I am not condoning it. THEY SHOULD NOT. He would be the first to tell you that. I learned a lot from working with Albert and I am a very safe handler. He has worked with Fish and Wildlife, etc. I am just pointing out that he is not what people were saying above, he has a great reputation down here in S. Florida .

Sloane

[marisa]

But how has he gotten bitten 25 times? Is this normal? Or would this be a clue to change your ways? Just curious, as I mentioned before a couple people on this forum do educational shows and have no bites on their record.

I am sure *some* of the problem was the TV show, but for someone who know's what's going on it was depressing to see him identify his Reticulated as a Burmese, twice.

Marisa

Marisa

[marisa]

BTW I am not trying to bad mouth this guy. I am genuinly curious as to 25 bites being normal, and some of the very odd things he said on the program. and I appreciate the responses so far. thanks guys.

Marisa

[Mustangrde1]

Marisa if he is doing venom exctraction the odds of a bite are very high. Look at it this way say he has to handle 100 snakes a day to extract the venom multiply that by 6 days a week and 52 weeks a year thats 31,200 times now on average you need to handle it to get it out 1 handle it for extraction 2 handle it putting it back in thats 3 times so multiply 31,200 time 3 thats 93,600 times a year he hadles a hot . the normal keeper if they have say 20 hots might handle/ work with the animal for cage cleanning bad sheds or waterring or medication 100 times a year so the odds of a private keeper getting bit are very low indeed.That is just a rough estimate mind you.Hope that helps clear some of your question up.

[marisa]

Thanks. I wasn't understanding how someone could get bitten that many times.

I still feel odd about the scene when he opens the cage and turns his head and starts chit chatting with the camera person/reporter while his finger is still in the cage, WHILE telling a story about how this same snake bit him during this exact same situation (his hand going in). And the whole retic thing. But then again I don't keep hots and maybe there is a level of comfort he has after working with the for so long? I dunno. It all looked nuts though.

Marisa