Jose problem. Please give me tips! *long*

[marisa]

Jose my Mexican Black really has issues. He has CONSTANTLY been a biter but from feeding response, not aggresion defensivly. During the past two years, he has bitten himself probably 25 times when someone walks past the cage, makes a noise, whatever. It sends him into a feeding FRENZY like most kings, except he normally grabs himself. He is covered in scars from this I assume (he is five or six, I have had him two-three years) as he hasn't really drawn blood in the last two years.

But tonight he literally lost it. And this is why I am asking for some tips. I walked into the herp room and he lost his mind and starting bashing at the cage with WIDE open mouth. As I was walking away and turning light off I noticed he had grabbed his tail, and was going in mad frantic circles fighting with the "other "snake. He kept doing this, swallowing more and more tail. Then his circles got more frantic and he released the tail as fast as he could although it took a minute, thank god.

How can I stop this? If I can't stop it how can I lessen it? I don't want him constantly injuring himself. And like I said he is already covered in small scars from this.

Marisa
P.S. So far I have tried aquarium with top open lid, side lid with rubbermaid, normal rubbermaid tubs, feeding him WAY more often, feeding him 6 small mice at once to calm him for a few days, feeding him thawed only, handling, no handling etc etc etc!!!!

[enso]

Wow, i've never had a snake like that so i really can't offer any tips except. Handle, handle, handle. Good luck.

[marisa]

haha yeah well a two and a half years worth of handling with gloves, with no gloves, after eating, before eating, feeding in tub, feeding in cage, etc has done nothing. LOL. That's why I knwo its just a feeding response problem really and not a handling issue. Actually out of tank he is quite personable nowadays, but really hurts himself IN tank. :(

thanks though! I hope some of our resident king experts will answer!

Marisa

[enso]

Yea, i had not read the last part of your post before i replied. Cover his cage or get a Cobra. =P

[jwsporty]

Hey Marisa,

I'll throw a you more items to think about.

Do you keep your feeders in the same room? or even items that are used in the the rodent room (ie. hand towels for cleaning, mouse food, dishes and tubs that may have had mouse related goods in them). I did this at the first and all the babies simply would not stop cruising their tanks. I took the mice out and problem stopped.

How about females also in the same room? or female sheds?

Is his tank in a high traffic area? or area where there may be fluctuating light and shade levels. I have an albino desert that goes nuts if there is a change in the light levels going through his tub particularly in the feed tub.I believe it scares him..(beam of light shining on box with maybe a swaying tree branch outside that creates moving shadows)

Is the size of the cage too big or too small? Maybe if the tank is too large, he feeling insecure? I know he is an adult, but again, just a suggestion. My Hypo Brooksi seemed a little nutty in a 33 gallon but calmed down once I put him in a tub and he is about a year and half old.

I am not questioning your husbandry skills, but are temps and substrates all acceptable?

Maybe too much stuff in the tank? possibly reducing the setup to the lowest common denominator. (a single hide, paper towel, and a water dish might help)

Well maybe some of this is food for thought..hope you get it sorted out..

Jim

[marisa]

Thanks for replying. That definitly gives me some things to ponder.

I did have feeders in there about 6 months ago, that's definitly an interesting suggestion. I may trying moving him out of there all together.

Traffic wise its pretty calm. I only go in there about 3 times per day and no one else goes in there. The worst comes at night usually but he has thrown a fit and bitten himself in the day as well.

Jose is about 40 inches long, and is living in a 36 long by 16 deep by 7 tall rubbermaid tub right now, aspen as substrate and heating gradient from 90 down to room temp which is normally around 74-76. He normally uses the 90 hot spot after meals, and the hangs out in the middle area which is around 80-82 for most of his time that he isn't cruising the cage looking for a kill. lol :) Right now just because he is a maniac I do have the simple bare bones set up, just the aspen, one hide and one water bowl. It makes it easier when we have to catch him or feed him for sure!

No female Mexican Blacks in the room, but I do have a female corn very near to him. although this is just recently and it didn't change or increase his issues really. But maybe?!?!

So many possibilities to ponder. !!!

I am hoping he won't hurt himself worse than he has in the past at this point. How much can a person safely cover the cage permanently so the snake still recieves enough normal light? IE. Can I cover like 80% of the cage for an extended period of time? Maybe that will help.

Marisa

[KingJaff]

Hey, I am by no means an expert but i did experience the same problem with my Cal K, but this was because he was neglicted for a year and I always thought it was because he was trying to kill him self, not because he was hungry:( I thought he would be mentally scared for life but he's fine now:D
You should try disinfecting the whole cage with some kind of reptile disinfectant and buy some thing to treat his wounds like Povidone-iodine. Also keep taking him out when hes active so he dosnt get bored. Maybe change his diet (Rats, Hampsters, Gerbills and Chicks, aswell as not feeding hm in his cage so it dosent have the smell of food in there.
Does he still have movement in the lower part of his body? Can he still grip your finger with the very tip of his tail (as this could be the reason why he doesn't know he's not food when he bites.
There is somthing quite mystical about a snake eating his own tail, I think it signifys the never ending circle of life.
My snake is as nice as pie now but he has a few scars (but i never tried to treat them with P-I which is somthing i think you should do;) hope this helps also.
KingJaff

[BurmBaroness]

I have a cal king that I keep in a separate room from any other snakes. I was told when I acquired him, as it was my first king, not to put him in the same rom with any other snake, as that could make him a not so nice snakie. I would probably take the corn out, or move him to a room where no other snakes are, and see if this helps. Good Luck.

[RaVeNo888o]

maybe he just likes his own taste, after all, kings do eat other snakes lol..
but really, burmbaroness made a good seggestion, because he may just smell the corn and think *FOOOOOD* so give that a try.

[marisa]

Jose was definitly neglected before we purchased him. He was living in a ten gallon and getting one live mouse per week dropped into the cage. I know for a fact this caused him to act this way but its frustrating all the same! :)

Burm- Thats a good idea. My cal king lives in the rack with the corns and is a big baby but maybe for Jose its different! I will probably be moving him soon. thanks guys! I will see if it works at let you know.

Marisa

[KingJaff]

If only you could see my reptile gloves (actually there welding gloves from vauxhall) you could get bittern by a bosc moniter and not feel any pain!
The best thing by far is lots of handling for the little guy.
I'll get pics of my gloves soon lol

[vanderkm]

Something that you might consider instead of reducing the stimulation that he receives would be to offer him more of an outlet for what might be a hyper-active hunting drive. I have a female cal king that is recovering body weight after laying a huge clutch of slugs this year and she is in hyper-drive when it comes to prey, although previously she was very mild mannered. Last year she was eating a mouse every 2 weeks and in her drive to regain condition now she is taking small rats every week and looking for more every 3-4 days. Perhaps from his neglect, he has an enhanced prey drive that he can't shut down even when fed adequately.

Anyway, the point of all this is that he may benefit from working for his food and getting a bigger meal less frequently. I don't know if you want to go to this much trouble, but I have been thinking about setting something like this up to give some of our guys additional stimulation and exercise. If his current environment is quite simple and he is fed in a feeding tub, the whole feeding experience may not be enough to satisfy a hyper feed drive. Could you create a hunting area for him (maybe a shower stall or something that could be cleaned easily) and outfit it with a big fake, plastic 'tree' (make out of plastic pipes or an artificial tree with branches big enough to support him), some plastic tubes in various shapes put together with connectors for him to crawl through and some different shaped objects in which a prey item could be hidden. Then hide the thawed warmed prey, in an easy place the first time, and turn him loose to locate it. Maybe give him a few sessions in the area first without food, just to feel comfortable with it as a territory. After a couple sessions I would increase the size of his prey to something that will stick with him for more than a week - smaller rats instead of his usual mouse - don't think there should be a problem with digestion as long as he had a good hot spot. We use tubes for hideboxes for young snakes and find that when they locate prey in a tube they are less likely to constrict it frantically and are calmer about feeding than when it is presented directly to them.

good luck with him and keep us posted on how things work out,

mary v.

[marisa]

vanderkm - thanks for the good ideas. I like the giving him more exercise deal. :D I find that about two days aftr each meal he becomes a MONSTER with all the biting himself and stuff. I once fed him 6 mice at a single feeding to see if it indeed would stick with him longer. It kinda did I guess, but it didn't last long. Maybe instead of multiple items, like you mentioned I could feed him large rat pups, or whatever is borderline too big. Maybe all the effort of eating something larger, then having to digest something larger will help spend his energies better.

I will try this for sure.

I have noticed that if his attention is on something, he won't bite us. Like outdoors. He is so interested by all the new smells and sun that he is as handleable as a cornsnake during this time.

Marisa