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Scales Zoo
07-27-03, 10:06 PM
I'm back.

We had a clutch of black ratsnake eggs laid over 2 months ago.

The first 6 eggs we found I put into the new incubator and set it at 82F.

The last 5, including one that didn't look really good, I put into another incubator and set it for 79.5.

The first 6 hatched while we were away. My mother, who was looking after Sarge and the reptiles, set up all of the babies in containers whe had aranged before we left. (She also managed the taiwan's hatching, a really fun and bity experience).

The other 5 started pipping a full 5 days after all 6 of hotter ones hatched.

The first batch was not bity, the second batch was. The second batch took 72 hours to pip and hatch from first egg to last, the first one was done in 36 hours.

The second clutch has the biggest snakes.

Chances are that both our albino, and our regular rat bred this het.

The first batch had 3 albinos, and 3 blacks. The second batch was all black.

A day before the eggs started pipping (while we were still home), Voodoo, our white albino black rat, the 5th snake we ever bought together - died. He was a favorite snake for many reasons, and Sheila, myself, and my mother were all broken hearted when he died (he was 15 years old). The next day, the eggs started to pip, and the first 2 were albinos. We bought back (Thanks Katt and Vanan) other albinos that were produced by our buddy Voodoo.

The bad egg in the cold batch hadn't pipped by the time we were ready to leave after we were home for a 34 hour visit I cut it open.

Now, I have a digital camera and a digital video that I had hoped to catch pipping on, but we were very busy and did not bother to take any pictures or video of any of this. I am very dissapointed that I didn't make time to do this - but I have learned my lesson - sorry I have no pictures to post.

Anyways, we cut the bad egg open to find a big yoke sack. Found part of a snake so i drained the white fluid from the egg and dumped the yoke into my hand.

I broke the sack, touched the little underdevoped snake - and it moved! I felt so bad! I should have left it, or just cut it open and then left it. I quickly wet the paper towel in it's container that we had ready incase my mother was here for its hatching, and put the snake into it.

The egg sack was much larger than the tiny snake, and I truly thought I'd watch it die.

We came back home 10 hours later, for a 6 hour sleep - and the egg sack was sucked up, and the little snake looked as big as his siblings.

Shortly after, he seperated from the sack.

100 hours later, he looks to be doing fine, and we expect him to shed shortly after the rest of the babies.

I was suprised that there was such a difference in hatching between the 2 incubators (5 days). It is possible that the albino males babies were born first, and the black males were born second, if both snakes bred the female. This could explain some of the differences in hatching I suppose.

I wish I would have taken pictures of me removing the last one from the egg. I'm going to keep this snake, of course - his name will be Earl E. Elaphe.

Roy, I'm hoping you can comment on this post. I will probably think of some things I have left out - we have only been back home for 5 hours, and I could use some sleep.

Ryan

Stockwell
07-30-03, 12:57 AM
Ryan , thats a long post, and I'm afraid, I'm not sure exactly what you want me to comment on.
I suspect coincidence may have something to do with some of your findings. I can't see any good reason why a couple degrees would affect the disposition of the offspring, but yes you might have two fathers.
In general it will always be true that higher temps result in shorter incubation times.
When I was exporting everything to the US, I would often increase temps to meet preset shipping dates. In fact that is the main reason for having controlled incubation for colubrids. You know when they will hatch and you can have some control over it.
In my experience hotter eggs usually hatch faster, opposite to what you saw. In fact one problem with high incubation temps is that snakes tend to "jump right out" often not fully absorbing yolk, and breaking off the yolk and ambilical connection.
This sometimes gives you skinny weak neonates.
I think the high temps increases metabolism, but also makes them quicker to get on the move, at the slightest disturbance
I'm talking about temps of 85 to 90F.
Most colubrids are best simmered slowly in the 80 to 84F range.(note I said most, there's exceptions like Drymarchon which need cooler temps)
Your observation on yolk absorbtion is similar to what I have found. Baby snakes pip before the yolk has even started to be taken up. My feeling is that they must be breathing oxygen before the yolk is absorbed, and yes that hastened post pip uptake increases the neonate's size.

Scales Zoo
07-31-03, 06:22 PM
Thanks for your reply.

I wasn't asking any specific questions, I was just looking forward to seeing your experiences around information like this. I like your replies, and have learned a lot from them in the past.

And I think maybe you misread my post, or maybe I confused things somewhere - but the warmer ones did hatch first - a whole 5 days just by 2 degrees F.

Thanks for the comments

Ryan

lordkovacs
07-31-03, 10:00 PM
interesting post... does that have a big effect on their health? maybe time will tell when you can compare them... cheers,
MIKE