Unbefreakinglievable

[lilyskip]

If anybody needed any more proof that the snake experts are at *this* forum, here's a message recently posted on one of the other "big" snake forums:

Posted by: longtang at Sun Jul 27 08:38:06 2003 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

Hi all:

I am not an expert in herps, but I do try new things and such. I just found a new way that I can elicit feeding response in pitted snakes (like the pit vipers and ball pythons) who use heat as a way to find food.

I was frustrated with my ball pythons who would only eat live food. Everytime I want to feed f/t food, I have to give them a live food first and then place the f/t in the snake's mouth as the butt of the first prey is swallowed.

The other day I was taking out a dead food out of my BP's cage. She bit my middle finger knuckle. I realized that she smelled the food but was looking for something warm (like my knuckle) to bite on. So I started to heat up f/t food. Now she strikes at dead food! Turns out that the reason I had always needed to feed live food was that: live food is warm! So, she wasn't necessarily looking for live food--just warm food.

An easy way of heating up food is with hot water. However, this is only recommended if you have newspaper as substrate. Aspen will be too stuck onto wet food! (I learned to be very careful because MsTT warned about aspen..By the way, MsTT how have you been? You haven't posted in long time).

I now have all my snakes on Newspaper. My copperhead and my ballpython will strike at warmed wet f/t food. (The Pigmy rattle snake that I have will strike even cold food, thankfully).

Think about it: They are, after all, pit animals that use heat. It makes perfect sense that heated food will be better taken than cold food. I wonder why I didn't think of it sooner. It would've saved me a lot of frustration. I guess I am sharing this info, hoping that I can maybe save some frustration out there in the BP and in the Pit-viper community.

cheers.


Can you imagine this guy giving you feeding advice? Gee, bozo, I'm glad you thought to heat up the frozen food. Really. Congrats. Now your snake won't have to pick icicles out of its teeth.

[reptilez]

This guy cant be serious. What a Knuckle head.
-Reptilez

[SCReptiles]

At least it wasn’t his copperhead that bite his knuckle. Ha ha

[Colonel SB]

This guy needs to read a book!

[lordkovacs]

that's a good post.. .haha...

[Jeromerules]

WOW. ANd the Award for most mentally challenged herper goes to. I can't believe he though you didn't have to thaw out the mice. Unbelievable.

[HetForHuman]

I think we should call him 40 watt.
not the brightest one out there.

[norman]

Maybe what he ment was that once the mice are thawed out (ie-room temp) it would illicit more of a feeding response if the mice were heated to temp of a live mouse (much higher than room temp) These are pit animals, sensitive to heat fields. That may not be what he means at all, but why not give him the benefit of a doubt before pontificating about how he's 'mentally challenged'. If he didn't know that they needed to be thawed out, then.....wow....that is really stupid...ah well.....

[fanmaninacan]

LOL

ahahhahahahahahhahahahhahahahhahahah1!!!!

T.P

[burmer]

LOL that is just way out there.

[ThEmAdHaTtEr]

lmfao. slap that guy ten times with a trout.

[Jayson]

The post did say that it was( F/T ) which he was tring to feed.
and that it simply wasnt warm enough.

Jason

[norman]

Exactly...it's really not a giant blunder....F/T means frozen/THAWED....he just learned something more effective...hands up, everybody here who was born an expert...?

[lilyskip]

hehe--i just find it funny because practically every source says that you should make the prey item warm, and he seemed so proud to discover that his snakes would eat warm food :D I don't think any of us are being mean-spirited in our chuckle.

[chas*e]

hold it a second !! don't be too hard on the guy..maybe he was feeding the wrong end of the snake.....you sure go through a lot of mice that way..don't ya hate that....

[unknownclown]

It would've saved me a lot of frustration. I guess I am sharing this info, hoping that I can maybe save some frustration out there in the BP and in the Pit-viper community.

Dang thats why Im having such a hard time switching them over :eek:

Ok anyone know where I can get a teeny thermometer to make sure I have the right temps goin on here?

:p

Well at least he figured it out anyway, although I find it amazingly unbelievable that he wouldnt have researched a little in feeding techniques. Especially if he is a member of a reptile forum. :confused: Im not knocking him one bit here Im just astounded how a person could aquire an animal and not do some simple research. He must either be very young or joking.

[BAZ]

I like the name "40 Watt" for this guy.. he could be a rapper with that name.. like "50 Cent"! lol.

Peace out my nizzle!

B to the Zizzle.

[Gregg M]

Yeah I answered that post on that other forum..... Not too bright......

[norman]

I don't think anybody's being mean-spirited. I just think his post is being misinterpretted (over and over and over) Yes, I realize that maybe he should have figured this stuff out, BEFORE he started collect gaboon vipers and whatnot, but nonetheless, there's dumber things he could have done....at least he didn't put the mice in the mircowave, right?

KA-BOOOOOOOM, splat. Mmmmmm.......dinner.....

[Jeff_Favelle]

I think that guy meant that after he thawed out the rodent, he super-heated it with warm water. Its a well-known husbandry trick that is in at least 8 well-respected herp books. When I feed my snakes, I sometimes have to feed 60 adult snakes in ONE night. After I get through about 35 feedings, the F/T rodents are more room temperature. Fine for the colubrids, but some of the Boids won't strike at it. So I re-heat it in warm water.

So now let me ask you, am I a novice that shouldn't be giving advice? Do I know nothing about snakes? I'm VERY interested to hear your response.

Very interested.

[lilyskip]

Jeff--
I dunno...he said that his other snakes ate "cold" food, which leads me to think that they, while probably not solid ice, were not well-heated.

I'm not really sure I understand your question? Are the grounds for your statement that you know nothing about snakes that you reheat for prey in warm water? If so, I don't think that's a comparable situation since the awareness level is different between you reheating a prey item that you knew should be hotter but just got cold b/c of the logistics of snake feeding, and someone who just realized that their snake prefers warm food to cold food, ya know?

I may be misunderstanding what you're getting at...

[RaVeNo888o]

i always put the mouse in fairly warm water right before i feed it to the snake. enough so that it is warm to the touch.

[Jeff_Favelle]

the awareness level is different between you reheating a prey item that you knew should be hotter but just got cold


I'm not sure I understand you. Why "should" the rodent be hotter? I never said that it should be. As long as there is no ice, I see no reason for it to be "warm".

Having said that, some snakes (usually Pythons) have a better feeding responce to 80F + prey items, in my experience. So i sometimes re-heat them. My point is, its a VERY useful husbandry trick that's in a great number of Python books, and is used by some of the top breeders in the world. Its nothing new, but at the same time, its definitely not a technique that deserves to be ridiculed.

[tai_pan1]

I'm shocked that this guy is handling hots! He's liable to end up dead.

[sapphire_moon]

Give the guy the benifit of the doubt yes. But even I, Who knew NOTHING when I got my first bp, knew that I had to heat up the prey item before the snake would take it.....come on now, it's not that hard to figure out!

[Mike177]

.... i dont think i need to respond the this one.

[Zoe]

Jeff - I think lilyskip interpreted that he was feeding barely-thawed prey to his snakes. Which isn't so bad, except that he is attempting to keep hots and classifies them along with his BPs.
I don't think she was insinuating anything bad about heating up prey. At least I don't think so?

Zoe

[Bryce Masuk]

First off Food Doesnt NEED to be warm. colubrid's dont have heat pit's but warmer food increases the smell so its more likely to invoke a feeding responce. but food doesnt need to be warm to get snakes to take it. its a method used for pickyer feeders

[lilyskip]

Zoe--yeah, exactly. we *should* be heating up prey, which is why I thought it was so funny that this guy has at least three or four snakes (one of which is a hot) and was JUST figuring out that the prey should be warm for his pits. Thanks for interpreting. :)

[Gregg M]

Hey RaVeNo,
You have GABOON written under your name....... Do you keep gaboons???

[Emily-Fisher]

What a dumbo. However, he could just be a begginer in the herping world and I mean everyone makes dumb mistakes once in a while but geez!! Frozen/thawed means thaw a frozen mouse!! And if he is a begginer, then he wouldn't be keeping pitt vipers. So now, we have an excuse to call him stupid.

[Jeff_Favelle]

I still don't see where he said he's feeding them frozen. Or even that they are "barely" thawed. Maybe I can't read or see, but where does it say that? I also can't see how you can infer that. Not trying to argue, just trying to understand.

[lilyskip]

My copperhead and my ballpython will strike at warmed wet f/t food. (The Pigmy rattle snake that I have will strike even cold food, thankfully).

I see it in the distinction between warmed food, that he has heated, and "cold" food, which, in my interpretation, is not just slightly heated. It is cold.

[RaVeNo888o]

Originally posted by Gregg M
Hey RaVeNo,
You have GABOON written under your name....... Do you keep gaboons???

no i dont, but i do like them, i have that as my avatar because i use the name GabooN for all the other forums i belong to, mostly not snake related. I joined here just before i started using that name, thats why its RaVeN here. I just used that avatar cause i didnt have one b4.
i can see why on a snake forum, people might think i keep gaboons, but on other forums most people are like 'wtf is gaboon??' and i just say its a snake and i like snakes
sorry for the confusion:)

[Jayson]

If a food item is thawed to room temps,then in comparison to a live food item it would be considerd cold.

[norman]

yup.

[Lisa]

Some of my snakes won't touch the prey until it's stone cold (ie room temp). I've also read a few caresheets (ie, proexotics) that suggest that warming in hot water makes the prey less appetizing for the snake and that it should be thawed on a plate.

Personally I use the hot water method because I'm lazy, impatient, I don't wanna leave rodents out all afternoon (I have cats), and my boids seem to like it. I didn't discover the method, I just use it from thawing meat for personal cooking.

[SCReptiles]

I have heard of people offering food while it was still frozen and have the snake regurgitate later. I have given my big burms rabbits that were still cool in the center and never had the problem. Never tried it with the vipers.

[T.O-SK8TER]

WOW the guy made a statement to try to educate others and to share a herpers testimony. All you people can do is mock him. Please think of others before sharing in a thread that just puts people down!

[spyderman]

What that guy said about feeding would have helped alot of people just starting out.
If it wasn't for all the people here helping and making suggestions and giving their opinions, I wouldn't have been as confident with my snake as I am now.
Thankyou to everyone in ssnakess. But give the guy a break as he was only trying to help others.

[lilyskip]

okay, okay. to each their own opinion about this guy, then. geez.

[Jeff Hathaway]

Gee, I finally got around to reading this thread, and look what I've been missing out on...

My opinions, for anyone who wants to take the time to read them:

1) No, we shouldn't pick on people who are sharing their experience, or lack of it, but it is reasonable to point out things that need to be pointed out.

2) Yes, this is a very useful feeding trick. No one who uses it is a beginner/idiot/etc.

3) The poster ONLY JUST realized that he could use this trick to feed snakes with heat sensors. He should have known this BEFORE acquiring a ball python, but perhaps we can forgive this since balls are often an impulse purchase at pet shops.

4) Personally, I couldn't forgive that he didn't know this before getting a copperhead and a pygmy rattlesnake. This qualifies him as '40 Watt' in my opinion, whether he is a rapper or not.

5) Hopefully someone passed along to him that if you put the rodent in a plastic bag (reused milk bags work well as they are thicker plastic) and immerse the plastic bag (not the opening, obviously), then the rodent will be warmed but still dry. In my experience, balls and many others prefer their prey dry.

6) A handy trick if the prey item cools down, the water just isn't hot enough, or the bag leaks and it gets wet, is to keep a hair dryer nearby to blow dry the rodent. Works like a charm for stubborn balls.

7) Being dry eliminates the problem of shavings sticking to wet rodents. Sometimes shavings stick to dry rodents, though. Personally, I don't like to feed anything on shavings if I can avoid it. We use newspaper, or feed in a separate container.

8) I suppose that what the original poster said could have helped someone out, though I hope that most people 'just starting out' would do at least some basic research on the internet or *gasp* read a book, and get past this stage. Preferably before they acquire venomous snakes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In fact, I hope they NEVER acquire venomous snakes unless they have a profound justification for doing so. In my opinion, they should not be kept as pets.

Happy herping,

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[spyderman]

GOD!!! In my time on this site (I have only kept snakes for 5 weeks.), I have asked some questions that seem pretty silly to me now. I only hope that I don't hear of any of you tough people talking about me behind my back.

Ok. I have NO intention of keeping or even going near a hot, but I now know a lot more about snakes thanks to those of you who helped me out.