jacking herps?

[Bartman]

Im going to my cottage this sunday and i wanted to know if i went there and took a snake or lizard or somthing would i get charged or anything? i live in toronto and im going about 1 hour and 30 minutes drive to around perrysound...if i were to take a frog or somthing is this illigal? or is it certain species and specifics like that?

please answer before sunday :)
thanks

[ReptiZone]

nope have fun herping man.

[Linds]

Yes it is illegal to collect any wildlife. Almost all native species are illegal to keep as pets in Ontario... I think red sided garters are the exception? Best bet is to catch it, look at it for a while, maybe take a few pics, and let it go back to its home. Its not really fair to be yanking something thats lived its life in the wilderness and forcing it to live in a box...

[ReptileHQ]

It is illegal to collect any native herps in Ontario with 2 exceptions

Both of these involve owning a valid Ontario fishing licence:

1. Common Snapping Turtle (Chelydra serpentina serpentina)
2. Bullfrog (Rana catesbeiana)

I'm pretty sure you can only collect one of each, although I don't have the book in front of me. I'll look into it tonight...

Chondro python, please educate yourself on topics such as this before making uneducated comments.

Chris

[RaVeNo888o]

Originally posted by Linds
Its not really fair to be yanking something thats lived its life in the wilderness and forcing it to live in a box...

i agree..especially an animal that is living up in cottage country. not really exposed to people. I can see a difference if it were living in a suburb or something, but then again, i guess thats no different.

Id just take some nice pics. Lizards dont cost THAT much anyways

[lilyskip]

Ever since Finding Nemo, I've been really wary of anybody taking an animal from its natural habitat. :D

[ReptiZone]

well see it is ilegal to catch a wild animal and sell it as a pet. I was herping and caught a snaping turtel and lone behild a forset ranger saw me and ansk what my intentionds were I said I just wanted it he said nothing and said dont go over bord.

these laws aply to ppl that set nets and stuff. like how many kids do you see on camping grounds frog catching and stuff like that. man let the kid have some fun why dont you I did it and so did many others. he isent some potcher from mexico god.

Oh ya FYI my my mother in law BF son in law is a forset ranger so I am educated

[Colonel SB]

Yes but not in ontario our laws are differnt...I know quite a few guys who work for ag can! And for not taking animals out of the wild I think we are forgetting where are animals came from, at one point in the not to distant past the only herps you couls get were WC...If it weren't for them we would not have the hoby that we have today. I am all for the proper management of natural rescources mind you. Thats my 2 cents.

[The_Omen]

From ReptileHQ

It is illegal to collect any native herps in Ontario with 2 exceptions

Both of these involve owning a valid Ontario fishing licence:

1. Common Snapping Turtle (Chelydra serpentina serpentina)
2. Bullfrog (Rana catesbeiana)




From chondro python

well see it is ilegal to catch a wild animal and sell it as a pet. I was herping and caught a snaping turtel and lone behild a forset ranger saw me and ansk what my intentionds were I said I just wanted it he said nothing and said dont go over bord.

Seems that the specimen you had in hand was pretty much legal to collect and was probably assumed that you had the Ontario fishing licence by the officer

these laws aply to ppl that set nets and stuff

Actually.. animal protection laws usually apply to everyone.
Man.. if I had that train of thought while herping for eastern indigos.. I would be seriously up ---- creek without a boat.

[Colonel SB]

LOL same here I'd have a whol collection of Mississauga rattlers.

[ReptiZone]

I lived in Ontario lats year in the boonies moose creek area.

And lets not for get this is a 14 or 15 year old just wanting to go and have some fun. we are not talking Cites I animals here he is not border jumping with a indigo.

[SDSnakes]

sorry, what exactly is a mississauga rattle snake?
never heard one or seen one. But the other weekend
i saw 2 massasauga rattle snakes.

[chas*e]

It is illegal to collect or disturb any indigenous(native) species in Ontario, with some exceptions.....but like anything else..use your common sense do what you feel is right....

[SerpentLust]

Actually there is another acception to the Environmental Laws, I was looking into them when I wanted to keep a pet bat! lol

If you go to the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources website, they state that ONE animal may be kept. Mostly for learning purposes or say if you have a child, as a learning experience for him or her.

This however, does not include mammals. Only reptiles and amphibians.

Also, watch out for the protected species in Ontario: http://www.ontarioherpers.org/laws/

There it states that "Provincial legislation affects species native to Ontario only. Most are protected and cannot be captured, kept, bred, bought or sold without a licence issued by the Ministry of Natural Resources. (By “capture” I mean catch and take home, not catch, photograph and release.) Those that are not protected may be kept, bred and bought or sold legally, so long as they were legally acquired, but may not be taken from the wild without a small-game hunting licence."

However, as I said before, the only loophole with that is that you may keep ONE of these for educational purposes...I would quote it, but the MNR page seems to be down at the moment...

Personally, I don't think it's right to take an animal from the wild unless it's in the interest of preserving a species by breeding and reintroduction into the wild; saving it from an extinction that we most likely caused.

Jenn

[Vanan]

In light of earlier "discussions" in another forum, think twice before taking any wild animal out of its habitat. An illegal act is an illegal act.

[Jayson]

You can not keep any native to ontario reptiles in captivity. if you live in Ontario. even if they are captive bred,unless you are issued a permit from the MNR. no matter what the reason in must be oked by the MNR . and yes red sided garters are the ecception. bull frog and snapping turtle collecting are only for the purpose of human consuption, and not to just keep as a pet.

Jason

[Jeff Hathaway]

Further to Jenn's post,

The exceptions to the general rule of it being illegal to collect/possess native reptiles and amphibians (not bats, fish, etc.) are as follows:

1) If you have an authorization to do so. If you need to ask, you don't have it. You probably wouldn't get one even if you wanted it.

2) Game species (snappers & bullfrogs) with a valid fishing license. If you're under 18 or 65+ you don't need a fishing license.

3) Again with a valid fishing license, up to 12 leopard frogs and 1 of any other non-specially protected/ non-game frog (i.e. not gray treefrog, Blanchard's cricket frog, Fowler's Toad, Bullfrog).

4) Collecting non-specially protected and non-game species (garter, brown, red-bellied, ribbon, ringneck) if you have a valid small game hunting license, or if you a farmer (under the MNR defintion, which means you REALLY HAVE TO BE A FARMER) on your own land. Possessing these species is okay for anyone as long as it was acquired in the above manner or purchased legally from such a source. This is where the CB red-sided garters come in! Please note that there is some consideration being given to extend SP status to all of the remaining unprotected snake species in Ontario, so this situation may change.

5) Anyone is allowed to possess ONE SPECIMEN (not one of each, etc.) of a specially protected or game reptile or amphibian, but this exception does not allow such a specimen to be collected from the wild. Also, this exception was recently amended to exclude any species listed as Vulnerable, Threatened or Endangered by the MNR, such as skinks, fox snakes, hognoses, massasaugas, spotted turtles, etc.

Interpretation of these rules varies somewhat between districts and between people. Always better to err on the safe side.

As for the original question, there are a lot of rare and protected species to be found in the Parry Sound area. Watch your step!

Also, in my opinion, if one was going to collect a garter, or a leopard frog, or some other common species, it would be better to collect it from a location where the population is likely to be healthier (i.e. not close to urban areas where there is a lot of pressure on them).

However, in my opinion, regardless of laws the only reasons to collect wild specimens are for research, for educational programs, or for experienced breeders who plan to start producing captive bred specimens. Wild animals should not be collected haphazardly to be kept as pets, nor should they be collected for sale. Where justified, it should be done in a manner that is the least disruptive to a population (i.e. eggs or juveniles instead of adults, especially for turtles).

And finally, most of the Ontario species, especially the unprotected ones, are not really that great in captivity. I should know, as I have most of them for our educational programs. There are so many better choices out there without having to remove something from the wild. Please don't...

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[Jayson]

Thanks Jeff I learned somthing new today LOL.
Jason

[corr]

Great thread! I've wondered about a lot of this stuff.

SDSnakes, where did you see the Massasaugas?

[Lisa]

I was on the understanding you needed 2 licenses, One to hunt and one to collect it, and neither allowed you to hunt or collect protected species.

[ReptiZone]

All I know is that he just said under 18 or over 65 you did not need a licences. So I was in fact giving the good info the first time considering we are talking about a kid going to a cotage to do some herping he will learn more thing there then any book can give him.

caus you need to know what kind of enviorment to be looking for and it is rewarding to actualy find what you set out to find.

so again happy herpping and dont keep every thing you see LOL

[V.hb]

over 65 no license required? thats freaken wierd.... It makes me think of petty crimes commited by young offenders, they usually get off.... Man if they did the same thing for people over 65, could you imagine? hahaha.. wierd.. But no offence iam 99.999999% sure you're wrong on that one.... Correct me if i'am wrong please :)

[Colonel SB]

sorry, what exactly is a mississauga rattle snake?


My Bad that is a spelling mistake.

[Bartman]

well i have read all the posts and i have decided to go to my cottage and only look at everything i pick up...unless its some crazy unknown species that could be worth millions ;)..the reason for this is because i would be pretty pissed if i was free in the wild and than someone came along out of no where and put my in a glass container for the rest of my life. So whatever i could always buy that reptile if it looks cool. thanks everyone for educating me. and thanks chondro for trying to help :)

thanks everyone

[lordkovacs]

Perhaps it's just me, but why go looking to capture a snake (who's gonna be deathly afraid, and unpredictable at best) when you can buy one at a reasonable price? I mean, I can understand that looking for snakes can be fun, I even did that when I was younger... but why keep it? Just my opinion...
Cheers,
MIKE

[Jeff Hathaway]

Bartman, glad to hear you won't be collecting!

V.hB- when they first created fishing licenses in Ontario in the '90s, they made it so that kids did not need a license, nor retirees. Both groups that have lots of time to go fishing, but perhaps not a lot of money to spend on a license. Probably a political decision, in reality.

chondropython- the age factor for not needing a license only applies to fishing licenses, and therefore only to snapping turtles and bullfrogs for herps.

Lisa- hunting & collecting are technically the same thing under the Fish & Wildlife Conservation Act. 1 license (fishing or hunting as applicable) covers both. Neither a fishing license nor a small game license allows the collecting of specially protected reptiles/ amphibians. The only things that allow the collection of SP herps are Authorizations to collect SP herps for the purpose of keeping in captivity, and Authorizations to collect SP herps for research purposes.

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[SCReptiles]

I think everyone knows I am pro-collection for personal use. Take a look at this for what it is, a kid catching snakes and lizards. Kids have collected snakes and lizards since the beginning of time. I can’t see a game warden prosecuting a kid for catching a snake, regardless of how the law reads. I caught snakes as a child and I bet most everyone in here did. Constrictive laws are necessary to prevent commercial collecting and I understand that. But I see no problem whatsoever with this guy catching a snake if he finds one. Good luck to you.

[stretch]

All I have to say is chrondo python I didn't appreciate your comment about he's not some poucher from mexico. Next time keep Mexico out of your mouth. Thanks.

[Jeff Hathaway]

Hey Chuck,

While I'm not dead set against collecting for personal use (and yes, I've done it) I generally feel that such collecting should be for a higher purpose than just as a pet. However, it's important to keep in mind that we have fewer herps here, in both species and numbers. Virtually all of our snakes are designated vulnerable, threatened, or endangered, as is our one lizard species, and almost all of our turtles. There aren't many species that haven't suffered series declines, as it doesn't take much to make them decline at the limit of their range. While a conservation officer may not charge a kid for collecting a painted turtle (not VTE but still protected), if he collected a hognose or a fox snake in the Parry Sound area it is not unlikely that there would be charges. At the minimum it would be confiscated.

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!