catch 22 topic

[jncoclub]

A lot of people here voice that you shouldn’t buy a herps from a “pet shop” that it should come from a “breeder.” Who technically supplies the pet shops? Not breeders?

Also, if the "pet shops" are lacking info themselves, not meeting concerns, and no one should buy herps from there, then what sort of deal are those herps getting being stuck in a horrible home?

Which is worse, an uneducated person buying a herp form a pet shop, or a pet shop keeping a herp that they don’t have knowledge on either?

I now that this is a catch 22, but I’m curious to hear you opinions on it.

*Note for the record-- I am not saying that all pet shops are bad, just like I'm not saying all breeders are good (there are exceptions to everything)- so please don't get all huffy puffy at me. I hope you understand my initial question.

[reticguy]

Not much of a catch 22 from a buyer's perspective...

Breeders keep the cream of the crop to sell privately at a cheaper price than pet stores will sell for and offload the less-than-attractive or runts or poor feeders to wholesalers and pet stores. From a buyer's perspective, there's definitely no catch 22 here. Buy from a breeder to get the best possible animal at the best possible price and with the best possible husbandry info.

Nathan

[Colonel SB]

All of the pet stores I've worked for got 90% oftheir reptiles from large importers so they take 100 os this 50 of that...so it's all bulk.

[jncoclub]

I guess it's not really a catch 22. I guess what I was aiming at was something on the lines (crudely put) that the demented leftover reps are at the pet shop and the fancy pretty ones are sold thru breeders. What happens to the runt reps being left at the shops where there are uneducated people buying them from uneducated people selling them?
I think I have an idea in my head that just isn't coming out correctly in words.

[RaVeNo888o]

I know what you mean. the pet shop worker may not likely know as much as he should about the husbandry. So you have a snake that is under developed. The ones that go to the store in the first place are the 'reject' ones from the breeder to start with..The, for the most part, people who buy the snake from the store dont know any better (or they would have bought from the breeder) >>That what you mean?

[Samba]

Well, breeders do supply pet shops with the animals... sometimes. Other times the animals may be wild caught. Assuming a breeder can produce and sell offspring shows that the animals are being given the proper environment, food, etc. Many of the 'leftovers' (what a horrible thing to call them), aren't taken care of as well by the pet shops, (employees aren't knowledgable). Therefore, the animals in a pet shop are more likely to come with associated problems. It just makes sense to buy from a breeder if you want a quality animal that is not going to have a whole lot of complications.

[Samba]

And another note: (Especially for those of us in N.M.), buying from a breeder is a heck of a lot less expensive than a pet shop. Here, normal leos run about $80.00!

[Lisa]

Originally posted by Samba
And another note: (Especially for those of us in N.M.), buying from a breeder is a heck of a lot less expensive than a pet shop. Here, normal leos run about $80.00!

Wow, the pet store here sells normal leos for $30 canadian.

[drewlowe]

Here in missouri normal babies 20-30 or adult normals for around 70-80.

[Samba]

You guys are lucky! I'm moving! jk =)

[lordkovacs]

when you get undeducated people selling to uneducated people ya know what happens? you get people with a 10 foot retic returning it because it's too big. or an iguana that "miraculously" grew to over 5 feet. pet shops "typically" do not have the info to give to the consumer. And the ones that do, are often more interested in the sale. of course this isn't always true...but that's what happens to these "runts". Just my opinion.
Mike

[peregrinefalcon]

Wow, leos around here are usually $110! You guys are lucky! :D
Adam

[alex_33]

Samba $80 american for a normal leo?!?!?! That's nuts, at my local pet store, I can get 2 for that price, even though the pet store has some really good prices, but still I've never seen a baby for more than $70 canadian!

[SerpentLust]

Well, I work at a pet shop and am now head of reptiles. HOWEVER, I do know that my store does NOT get their snakes from a breeder. I think we get it, literally, from a guy in a truck that comes to the back of the store.

However, in defense, these animals do get the best treatment we can possibly give them (thanks to me ;) ). So, if you're not a hobbyist and a novice, I think pet stores are fine for haing a PET. If you want a high quality herp to support your herping hobby, go to the high quality breeders.

And I also take the time, hours if necessary, to educate every one of my customers on all the needed requirements.

So, to state my opinion. If you're looking for a family pet in a reptile, if you don't care about its origins or any of the bloodline things. Pet stores are fine as long as you're educated. If you're a hobbyist and want high quality reptiles with more information as to where they came from, you go to a breeder.

Jenn

[lilyskip]

Jenn...I only wish you could clone yourself and work at my local pet store, too...

[jncoclub]

I went to one of the shops in town and they were selling a leo for $200 which also included a 10 gallon tank! Rip off!! When I mentioned my concern they said that people buy them that way all the time. Who here has bought a plain ordinary leo (including a $10 10 gal tank) for $200???

[Jeff_Favelle]

I went to one of the shops in town and they were selling a leo for $200 which also included a 10 gallon tank! Rip off!! When I mentioned my concern they said that people buy them that way all the time.


Errr.......what exactly was your "concern"?

Good for them I say! I wish reptiles cost a LOT more money. This would eliminate impulse-buys, gift-buys, and a LOT of rescues! If green iguanas were $500, I GUARANTEE you that there would be about 99% LESS abandoned/rescued/euthanized lizards.

[Jeff Hathaway]

Some good points raised...

Some pet shops & staff are excellent, and some breeders are downright frightening. However, the odds are that breeders are more knowledgeable and better able to provide proper care advice. That won't change unless pet shops start paying people enough that they could actually consider it a career move to work there, which is unlikely to happen.

Pet shops sell animals that are WC or of unknown origin in many cases. Most breeders don't.

To answer the original question, I think it is worse for a pet shop to sell something they don't know about, since they SHOULD know better, than it is for a beginner to buy something there- the word beginner says it all, and so they could be excused. Not sure what the point of such a comparision would be, though.

Hopefully, breeders don't sell non-feeding animals and 'runts' to pet shops. We sell most of our offspring to pet shops, and they are all well started (4 feedings, minimum) before they go out the door. I would never sell something that was not feeding or was a 'runt' except in exceptional circumstances to someone who I was quite confident about and with complete disclosure!

Have fun,

Jeff Hathaway
Sciensational Sssnakes!!

[spyderman]

Ok. BAD deallings with a "PET SHOP" I went into our closest reptile speciallist (15 miles away :( ) yesterday & Didn't like what I saw or smelt. For starters, 2 snakes were labelled WRONGLY & There were 3 huge smelly lumps of ...Uuummm...welll...You can guess, in one tank. I fell in love with an Albino King snake in there, but couldn't stay in there long enough to look to much. There is a lot of Herperz in my area, but not a specialist shop close... I'm sure I can do better than this guy.

[Emily-Fisher]

But guys... I was having a conversation about this with my friend who owns a petstore. He has been working in petstores for over 30 years and he told me that before internet was made, there were around 33% less herp deaths in the store because as quickly as the animals came to the store, they would also find homes. Now because of online breeders, many people don't bother buying animals from petstores and so the animals are stuck in the store for months and many of them end up dying since most petstores can't take special care of each and every pet. Because of this, several petstores have been ordering less animals but most of them aren't. So as more and more people buy animals from breeders, more and more animals die. A wild caught animal might actually be better off in captivity (away from predators) and make an equally good pet as do captive bred animals. Sure, captive bred animals might save you money on vet bills etc., but an owner that actually cares about their pet won't mind paying extra on the vet bills. I am having a bit of trouble explaining what I mean so I might as well just put this in a nutshell. We shouldn't encourage people who just want herps as pets to buy from breeders. If they are just starting off in the herping world, their first couple of herps should be from petstores and then if they want to get into breeding and more seriouse things, THEN they should buy from breeders but otherwise buying from petstores is actually saving those animals. Unless we can get every single person in the world to buy from a breeder, which we can't do, then we should have the begginers buy from petstores because no matter what we say to the petstores, they won't stop ordering large shipments of animals. Just my opinion, I hope that you all understand what I am trying to say.