Veiled Cham, need some info.

[GeckoCorral]

I have a female veiled cham and she just recently went off of her food. She is in a 2' deep by 3' wide by 5' high enclosure with many vines and a ficus tree (all fake) to climb on. The humidity is always between 50% and 70%. She has a little dripper for water and I give her prey items, crix and jumbo mealies, in a big bowl that they can't get out of every other day. Her basking area gets up over 90F and that is at the very top of her enclosure. She has LOTS of room to roam to temp regulate herself. She has an active UV fluorescent about a third of the way down from the top of her enclosure and her whole enclosure is misted every other day.

She was eating regularily up until the beginning of the week. She seems to be spending A LOT of time wondering around on the floor of her enclosure and on the sides instead of on the vines, etc. I was wondering if this is normal or can anyone give me any ideas on why she would have stopped eating?

Thanks for any help.

Diana.

[Pookie]

I may not be the best person to answer this but i had a similar problem w/ my male. It turned out that he was developing metabolic bone disease. Make sure you're providing enough calcium in her diet along with proper lighting. When their bones don't recieve enough calcium they begin to become weak which makes it difficult to grasp the branches. She also could be about to lay eggs, which may make her not eat. But it is relativly common for veilds to stop eating for a small period of time, drinking is the most important thing.

[Trace]

Hi Diana! :D

Your set-up sounds just fine for a Veiled Chameleon.

My suspicions is that she is gravid. Most females will go off their food a few days before they deposit the eggs and tend to spend time at the bottom of their cages just before. Is she digging at the sides of her cage at all? Does she appear to be much larger than normal?

Here is what I would do, I would provide her with a bucket filled with about 12" of not too moist dirt. You want the soil wet enough that it will hold a tunnel , but not mud, if you follow me. Put her in the bucket and see what she does... she may start digging for you right away. If she is gravid, this is something you need to do right away. If you delay providing her with a proper egg laying place, she will retain those eggs and that is a death sentence for the females.

Here is a pic of my egg-laying bucket for my chameleons:

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/405119-1961-med.jpg

Good luck! Keep me posted!

Trace

[Trace]

Hey again!

Pookie has brought up some interesting ideas that I'm going to expand upon a bit...

Veiled's are known to be finicky eaters sometimes, so maybe she is going on a hunger strike for you. You could try waxworms and silkworms and see if she eats those. Waxies are like candy to chameleons! They love them. They are fattening insects, so don't overdo it with them.

UV is another interesting topic. Those flourescent bulbs need to be replaced every 6 months as they do not have a long lifespan. Also for proper UV absorption, any lizard must be within 12" of that bulb to receive the required amounts of UV it provides. So if she spends most of her on the opposite side of the cage, you may want to consider moving the fixture to where she sits most of the time.

Now I could be totally wrong with my original idea of her being gravid. My females do the same thing just before they lay their eggs. If your female is indeed gravid, and she lays eggs, let me know, and I'll post some good aftercare tips for you.

Cheers!

Trace

FYI: Females will develope eggs whether they have been mated or not.

[meow_mix450]

hope she is gravid and didnt form metabolic bone disease keep us posted ad tell us what happens

[GeckoCorral]

I don't think she is developing MBD as her buggies are put in her dish with CaD3 so every bug she eats is dusted.

Her UV light is only a couple of months old and is the new Verilux bulbs. They are suposed to be good for about a year. The bulb is right up against the side of her enclosure so she can get within a couple millimeters of it if she likes.

She climbs everywhere in her enclosure including on the mesh sides so I can't see her having a problem gripping.

I have a bucket of peat moss in with her as she had been digging at the corners of her enclosure, on the floor, once before when I first got her. She was happy to go in there and dig, never laid a darn thing, but she was then quite content to eat consistently for me and settled into her new home.

As far as I can tell she was in there once after I put the pail in there for her again yesterday and that was only because she had some dirt on her feet and a bit on her tail. She has still been walking around on her floor so I am a little lost as to what else I should do.

I know they become gravid without being bred as I had read that on care sheets before we got her. She was supposed to be a male though which would have been a better starter for us. Oh well, I love her, and her moods:D, but it is just a bit more work.

Also how do you make them a little friendlier so you can get them to climb on you? She is not handled as she is too hard to get off of her vines and when she is most annoyed she hisses and opens her mouth at me. I know she is handlable as I held her a few times when she was first here but now it just seems impossible to get her out. I know they stress easily and are not really "holding" pets like leos but SHEESH, I will have to get her out at some points in time when I need to do the "major" enclosure cleanings.

Thanks for all the help so far, any other ideas? I will get her some waxies on Sunday. Do they eat super worms? I have to get around to ordering some silkies but just haven't quite got there yet. Who is the best to order online from?

Diana.
Sorry for the length of this little post.

[Collide]

As for geting her used to being handled it can be done, My female goes through mood swings, after laying egges she is supper friendly as she knows I bare all yummy things. when she starts to produce eggs thats another thing what a scary annimal she freeks at the sight of me and I have to move very very slow around her. Some times you can trick them with food by holding the bucket far and get them to come on your hand to get food this works cuite well.

[DNA Reptiles]

As a veiled chameleon breeder it sounds to me like she is gravid as this is the classic situation when my girls are ready to lay. Has she been with a male chameleon? If not you really must make sure you do all you can to get her to lay the unfertilized eggs, otherwise she will become egg bound and that will result in death unfortunately. Good luck and let us know how it works out

[choriona]

My one female veiled is a free-roamer (no cage) and about a month BEFORE she is ready to lay eggs, she changes her attitude. She goes out on sticks in clear view of any danger, makes her body disk-like and flaunts her stuff. I presume she is trying to attract a mate (usually the picture of the male vieled on my far wall). She then begins to expand her range. This is when i have to watch where I step, as she can often be found on the floor.
After about 2 weeks or so of doing this, she starts to get fatter and more complacent. All the while, she has distict robin-egg blue spots on her body. In about a month from the begining of unusual behaviour, she is ready to start digging. She usually picks one of my potted plants and malkes a huge mess.
AS fot the loss of appetite, mine gets this as well. She is more concerned with showing off than eating. Then, of course, when her belly is full of eggs there is no longer room to fit food in her squashed belly.
Another sign to look for is if she is extremely thirsty. I trained mine to drink from a squeeze water bottle while she was gravid. She was so thirsty all the time.

[GeckoCorral]

Me again, with more info.

No Cloe has not been with a male, not sure if she ever will be at the moment. She is not any bigger than before so I don't think, if there is eggs, that she is close to laying time.

She turns black most of the time when I am looking at her so I don't bother her too much. She is still drinking as there are urates but not much for feces.

I have used a small spray bottle with her before and she was quite happy to drink up the drips right from the nozzle. I will try this with her again just to make sure she is in fact drinking.

Maybe I should get a pic of a male to show her to see if she is "ripe for the picking". :p

I don't think she has been in her pail since I added more peat moss and made sure it was all wet and would clump together properly yesterday.

She will get waxies on Sunday and I will let you know how that goes over.

Diana.

[Trace]

Hi Diana! :D

It really does sound like she is gravid to me. I brought up the MBD and fussy eaters ideas to kind of rule them out. Now I know approximately when my females are due to lay as I keep track of mating dates and I know the length of gestation periods etc. You don't have this luxury as your female has not been with a male. So when I notice that my females are a bit more active and looking around the bottom of the enclosure, I'll transfer them out of their cages and into my bucket. Usually the first day I do this, they want out of the bucket immediately, so I do. The next attempt, they usually wander around a bit, then want out of the pail. By the third try in the bucket, they are digging test holes and looking VERY comfortable in there so I leave them there. As you can see by my pic, there is a small plant for cover and to lay their eggs under and a stick so that they can sit before and after laying the eggs. Once they have started digging, I will not remove them from the bucket until they have completely finished the procedure. If they are laying, I will not look at them, mist them, anything, I let them do what they need to do, and generally they want complete privacy for it. The females will also spend a HUGE amount of time repacking the hole and moving the dirt around on top of it, so "predators" are unable to find the area. When they are finally finished, my females will be sitting on the stick I provided and only then will I take them out of the bucket. Other breeders may have different ideas or help for you, but this is what works for me.

I would physically put your female into the pail and see what see does. Is it in an area of her cage that she can easily get in and out of? Is it big enough? Sometimes females can be a bit fussy about the actual area that they lay, so this is why I've provided such a large container for mine.

Good luck!

Trace

[GeckoCorral]

Hi Trace.

Her pail is very easily accessed by her. There is a stick, with some fake leaves added to it, for access in and out of the pail as well, her vines run right by the pail so she can get to it without a problem.

I would put her in it but she is VERY, and I do mean VERY, grouchy and she is not at all cooperative. She almost runs, as far as running goes with them, from me too when I try things with her. I tried her with the waxies yesterday and nothing. I will try again today just in case.

I really wish there was someone here that could just come over and give me a hand with her. It is much easier with leos:D

She is spending quite a bit of time just hanging out by her UV light these last couple of days. She really does not look like she is carrying eggs but then I have never seen a gravid cham to know what to expect.

She has not been wondering on the bottom much these last couple of days either. I keep talking to her, like I expect that to make a difference:rolleyes: but I have to try what I can.

Diana.
Feeling very frustrated and totally useless towards my little girl

[choriona]

Hey, don't feel so fustrated. I had a friend going through the egg thingy for the first time a while ago. He cham was exhibiting gravid signs for 2 months!! She was sooo worried that her cham would die from being egg bound. I kept telling her that in the wild, chams don't need a human to assist in their egg laying. As long as the proper conditions are provided, she'll know what to do. Now my friend is a pro, as her cham lays eggs every 2 months!! (but thats another story).

So you lay bucket sound nice. What you may want to do now, since she percieves you as such a threat, is not bother her at all. Having the lay bucket in a safe place is also a requirement for the natural behaviour. Watch from a distance to see if she becomes interested.

As for looking gravid, my cham surprised me yesterday by going into the plant to do her business. This morning she is happily disguising her mess so I cannot find her buried treasure! I didn't even notice her being fat and buldgy. Just a little bit.

Good luck!