croc monitors

[dean85]

where can i get a croc monitor i really want to get one
any help would be great

thanx dean

[snakemann87]

Assuming you know what your getting into, here are some links I found

http://www.centralcoastreptiles.com/pricelist.htm
Another link had CBB babies which I cannot link you can figure out why

[burmer]

Lots of reptile classifeds have them for sale. I saw plenty of them at the last show that I went to. Have you done research on them? They are not the best monitor in the world to keep.

[markb]

Hi,
The crocodile monitor is a unique apex ambush predator on New Guinea, which includes large mammals in its menu. It fears nothing (in my opinion), and acts accordingly in captivity, and with 1.5 - 2.0 cm long teeth, this can cause trouble; with claws able to rip and shred skin, fur, tissues, this can cause trouble, and to a novice or intermediate keeper of varanids, not a good idea (in my opninion only). These animals can be kept very successfully in captivity, as Steve B. has demonstrated, but you must be very experienced with varanids, understand body language of varanids, understand these animals and then be prepared for unexpected at ALL times! This is what most/all Vara-keepers learn sooner or later, hopefully as painless as possible.

This is NOT a rotweiler, a "show" lizard to tell your friends what a man or tough guy you are - this is a top predator in the most wild place left on Planet Earth and is King of its domain, and "knows" it! It is an amazing animal.

If you are a novice reptile keeper, I recommend a gecko, and if that bite does not bother you, go to nile monitors, and so on....
learn by doing and experience....and when living with these varanids, Please consider these animals needs before your own....
Good Luck,
markb

[tabastifur]

Just curious, what is the size recommendation for an enclosure for an adult Salvadorii?

[Steeve B]

Females 6L-6H-3w feet, Males 6L-6H-6w is a minimum, I don’t think bigger is better! They need controlled environment; it’s harder to control large enclosure.

peoples don’t seem to understand there bite potential, on one side you have every 7 feet varanids species YES Komodo included, then you have Salvadorii in its own class.

I understand this seems hard to believe, a 7 foot niloticus who’d do horrific damage on you, but a Salvadorii will slash skin muscle nerves and still manage to sink a few teeth’s in your bones, Marrow infection is most serious infection, and leave everlasting sequels

One more thing about Salvadorii, a big male will not flea after a bite, he will size you up and retaliate with a second attack, this time for the kill. Pleas don’t laugh, that’s what there nature is about, size don’t matter to them, what ever doesn’t fight back is fair game to them, after my first bite I repeatedly hit my male with a snake hook, he did everything to bypass the hook.

This is a serious varanids for responsible Varanophils, if you don’t have experience with large salvator or Niloticus, and I don’t mean 6 months aim talking about few years!
Then stay away from these, peoples selling there adult after realising they can’t manage them because they are too dangerous, shod be prosecuted. I say it like it is, they are the world most fascinating varanids, but not pets! Trophy yes! To who’s devoted enough to deserve them, I sold one pair in Canada the guy kept them not even 2 years, and this guy was really well intentioned.
It’s very unlikely that I will offer them again
Rgds

[tabastifur]

Wow, I assumed they would need a much larger enclosure. I was thinking more along the lines of 14 X 7 X 7 type deal. But I'll take your word for it.

[LORI34205]

do u really know what it is like to get 2 cm teeth sunken into your arm and an animal ripping its head side to side viciously is like?
thats what you would be getting yourself into if your even thinking at all of getting a croc monitor.Tell me why you like these species so much, explain why.have you ever owned any type of varinad?do you know what kind of hassle you are getting into?i know im not your mom or anything but i really hate seeing irresponsible keepers being hurt or hurting there animal carelessly.I suggest getting the best care sheets you can find and study them for about 2 years and also buy a book and study it for that long.then ask yourself if you are prepared for something like this:)
sorry if i came off mean sounding but all i wrote is true to the bone, monitors are abused all across the globe and i would do all i can to stop that:)

[markb]

HI Lori,

I admire your candid passion for Vara-care, but some of your advice is abit off (in my opininon)...you mention care sheets and "a book" - NO monitor Book covers it all, and care sheets are not often well prepared and/or written, by people who actually have kept these animals for long periods of time, especially the larger ones like V. salvator and V. salvadorii (I have never seen care sheets for these species either, and Ive got a collection a care sheets, especially V. exanthematicus).

One needs to read as many books as possible, as many articles as they can find (or ask me...), and primarily: Consult persons who own V. salvadorii and talk to them in-depth about these animals. This goes for all species you are thinking about acquiring for your collection. Be well prepared BEFORE you get the animal, then when the crisis' do occur, you are better prepared and stress is reduced at all levels to both you, the keeper and the kept. Find a veterinarian who knows about reptiles you can go to when your reptile is sick - however I have found that some "reptile" vets do not know as much as they claim, and used my own local dog/cat vet for such emergencies when they arose, and he did a very good on my animals. Get to know the species you live with, and they will show you things about them that will amaze you - like V. albigularis self-grooming ticks, removing them from between their toes with the keeled scale ridge of their tails, and then using their lower jaws to smash the ticks (Aponomma exornatum), and jaws to place the final crushing blow to these nasty nefarious parasites....behavior never seen in the wild, or elsewhere to my knowledge (Williams and Bayless, 2000, CHS Bull, Dec.:101-102).

Cheers,
markb

[LORI34205]

well thats a fine example of why no one has seen caresheets for them. The people that own them well.......there arnt a lot of.and mark sorry for being a bit off but the books are usually pretty high priced for me but if you are going to own a croc high priced shouldnt be in your vocabulary i know think to my self and understand that you were right when you said there isnt one book that tells all.I change my mind, a few books you need to buy and go on the internet and read everything you can find on them. good luck if you havent changed your mind already=)

[markb]

Lori,
The inernet is NOT everything - how about a good old fashioned library...shelf reading books on New Guinea can bring up surprising tidbits on the crocodile monitor (Mysteries by Col. Blashford-Snell, 1993). And for the internet, how do you know the credibility of the facts used? At least a book has been reviewed by an editor, if not more than once for accuracy and content - and today in this goddamn dumb-down world, I don't take anything for granted just because its in print or on screen anymore.... people and work have been lifted from each other and only persons very familiar with the backround information detect this - and the lies/mistakes on-screen....
Sorry for the ranting,
markb

[Bryce Masuk]

Imo People are your best source of info by the time the book is published the author may have a new theroy but its inconclusive so its not published
But in order to take care of a croc monitor you need provide it with a suitable habitat you dont need to know an amazing amount of info that info will help you understand why they act they way they do which helps you care for them in the more technical aspects but you dont NEED to know it all although it will not hurt you to know it and it will allow to provide a Even better life for your monitor

[LORI34205]

o ya also get other info from people:)

[ectotherm]

If Salvadorii continue with the frequency of availability (to novices) that they have experienced in the last few years, eventually this animal is going to end up on the news. And it won't be good news. It will be the kind of sad story every herp-keeper dreads, and lead to the kind of knee jerk reactions by lawmakers that almost cost all herp-keepers in Canada the ability to maintain any form of reptile a few years back (someone feel free to correct me if my recollection is incorrect). This is an ongoing issue in the U.S. at the city, county, and state level. More locales are attempting to ban exotics (which encompasses all reptiles).

My 2 cents? If you wouldn't consider keeping a mountain lion because of the possible dangers involved in keeping a huge, predatory, wild cat - then don't obtain a croc monitor. It is a huge predatory, wild lizard. In the scheme of things, your'e probably better off with the mountain lion.

[Gregg M]

I can tell you first hand just how out of control a croc could be...... I had a pair of 7 ft imports that wanted to kill everything including me...... Mark B knows all about it...... They are not a varanid for the beginner and they should never be considered pets by any means...... They can cause nerve damage in one bite....... It will take years to get full mobility back if you ever get it back..... They have crippled people....... Not a good starter....... I would consider them just as dangerous as my huge gaboons......

[V.hb]

I was reading on ksnake recently.. some newer guy to the hobby purchased two baby salvadori and housed them both in 50 gallon tanks. Thats a complete joke. Not many of us on this forum who have kept other large varanids could even say that we were remotely prepared to house such a wild animal. I for one would rather read about croc's then to ever own one. I'am fascinated enough with steeve b and markb's stories and descriptions of these beasts... in my own personal opinion permits should be required to keep these animals.

[markb]

HI V.hb,

Regretably, permits will be the next step for V. salvadorii, if not prohibitted outright when the first mortality occurs in N. America, hopefully later than sooner....but it seems inevitable to me it will happen.

I have three reports, very well documented of persons who were severely bitten, all hospitalized. One person was bitten on the neck, while engaged in a fistfight! Can you imagine getting into a fight while handling a 7 foot salvadorii!! I spoke to him, and he was very matter-of-factly about it, and said he deserved what happened to him = stupid! That kind of behavior is plain stupid, but other attack I have on video is probably one of the most frightening attacks I ever heard about - totally unprovoked, and if the very experienced herp breeder had not used his fore-arm as protection and got out of the enclosure as fast as Superman can fly, he probably would have been killed. The male salvadorii was 8'3".....

cheers,
markb

[V.hb]

Wow mark, I can't say that I'am surprised though... Many ignorant people out there.... People STILL dont know when to quit with Iguanas!! (still waiting for some sort of bi-law to protect these guys) Don't get me wrong, Ig's are nowhere near a croc. But it's still the general ignorance. If you've seen the way some iguanas are kept, then think for another second about that same person easily owning a croc.. Ouch.

To be completely honest, I think permits are the way to go. I mean, expierienced keepers like Steeve B would obviously still be able to keep these guys, as he has the knowledge to do so. On the other hand, the if the animal doesn't grow to kill a person, it may never have the housing to even grow to live at all...... So many factors against these beast arent there?

[markb]

I agree, but I am having real problem with the beaurocratic BS this country is instilling and continuing to move in on peoples private lives more and more - soon we will need to fart, as it will increase the ozone holes! On the other side of the Marshal Franco of Spain, Nobody has anything to fear, that is if your honest and not a communist! That ideology is good in spirit, but in this graft-swept away country where Gov't thinks it can do whatever it wishes for "national Security", it seems more and more like Nazi Joseph Goebels Propaganda Ministry on television, and Heinrich Himmler's Geheim Staats Politize (=Gestapo Police) each day here in USA - the similarities are disconcerning....boy did I digress! - anyway, back to permits, I think they will ban them entirely rather than permit them as they will deem them a danger to society, which they are absolutely NOT - they are only dangerous to people who do not understand their behavior/biology, not the other way around which seems to be the case more often than not....typical.

It always seems to the dogs fault it bit somebody, not the afore-mentioned scenario whereby the boy was teasing the dog, hitting the dog etc....a dog is a dog, a salvadorii is a salvadorii - they do what evolution has made them to be - we must figure them out, not visa versa.....and this will take time, patience, lots of sharing among vara-keepers and so on....

One thing I have noticed is the only reptile magazine out there now is Reptiles, and they now prefer "stories" rather than natural history related articles - witrh Vivarium, Reptiles and Amphibians we had a choice of things to read, now we have a monopoly and 'stories' to read - no real hard-core information can be shared in magazines today, aka information via this route is more difficult to share with lots of people....how do we spread the information better, and for those who may/may not have a computer? Perhaps a varanid magazine? I considered this. The readership would not pay the cost of the magazine....so where do we go from here? Another book? Maybe so...
cheers,
markb

[V.hb]

You're right on the dog aspect for sure.... But if the dog is never understood, the salvadorii would NEVER be understood.. Unfortunatly theres one side of the story, and when humans are involved its their side.... The government involvement is a bit to much as well.. As they really don't know the animals either.. Animal control, SPCA whatever you want to call it.. 9 times out of 10 they dont care, and cant be bothered, that is until something really severe happens.