Dank7oo... about your chams

[Wuntu Menny]

I've noticed several posts about your "dwarf panthers" and was wondering if you'd found out what they were yet and how they are doing for you? I used to keep a trio and found them to be one of the best chameleons to work with.

WM

[JeffT]

I hear they are very hardy animals and "easier" to care for. They live quite long too, If I ever get chams I would get some of these. Wht happened to yours?

[Wuntu Menny]

They actually don't live a long time, that's what ultimately happened to them. They came in WC and loaded and over the following couple of years, they all went to chameleon heaven.

[dank7oo]

WOW ... well fisrt off they arent all THAT hardy ... quite delicate anyways

i LOVE them SO much ... they are easy to care for, and mine both live together, and get along great!!! i do find them VERY easy to care for, but that is because i think my setup is perfect, little flaws in setup, and tempurature could be quite fatal .. like when we had a heat wave of 35-40 celcius for a week, i was worried about overheating ...but yeah .. very cool indeed
i am currently looking for a male to knock up my two girls and get some babes outta it .. the 2 i have were in with a male at the pet shop, but they sold the male off, and only had the 2 females left ... i have eggs coming at a rate of a clutch a month or so, between the 2 of them, and TRACE :) currently has 5 of my eggs, trying to save em ...

hope this answers your question

[Wuntu Menny]

Actually I was wondering if you were aware that they aren't dwarf panthers. I had the same problem when I aquired mine, the dealers and stores were calling them the same thing. Our chameleon community was having trouble identifying them until we came across a brief article that solved the issue.

They are actually Furcifer cephalolepis or the Comoro Island Flap Nosed Chameleon. Part of the same genus, but definitely not a panther. There is some good info on either AdCham or Chameleon Journals, I can't remember which.

I housed a trio in a cage 24x24x36 with no problems at all. They all got along great and the females were producing eggs like no other cham I've worked with. The only trouble I experienced was a complete failure in incubation. I followed the few suggestions I could find on temps, but every egg from 7 clutches went to full term and the neos died in the shell without emerging.

Needless to say, I was disappointed. Maybe I can help you with yours by not duplicating my technique. I do know that Arboreal Exotics was able to hatch a few. I still believe that these are the ultimate chameleons for pets. Mine were so laid back compared to the larger species and they take up far less space.

My computer is suffering from some sort of illness at the moment, but when that's sorted out I'll try to post some of the pics we got of ours.

WM

[dank7oo]

oh yeah .. i knew that!!!
and technically there are more than one name for them according to AdCham : Comoro Flap-nose Chameleon; Comoro Island Dwarf Chameleon; Dwarf Panther Chameleon .. those are the names they list, so i refer to mine as dwarf pantehrs ...
i am currently in the stages of saving some of the money i am earning from my summer job, so i can aqquire a male ceph and perhaps start some sort of little breeding project :) i have some great help here right near by to me, trace, and she is i think going to help me along the entire way (if we get any to hatch, there is one for you as thanks trace) and i know the place where i purchased mine would love to but the remaining babes off me ... it is still 6 months before i think i can convince my parents to allow me another cham, but they said i can definitly have one!
owning a veiled, i definitly LOVE the cephs better as a social animal, but te larger species kill in looks - lol
i think my cephs are between 9-12 months, and the largest clutch laid is 6 so far .. (they were from the same clutch :))

and without further adoo, i'm sure people would love to see some pics (although i am sure i have posted these ones already ;))

Mika
http://www.boomspeed.com/war2ain/Mika1_WEB.jpg

Toki
http://www.boomspeed.com/war2ain/toki1.jpg

Toki (front) Mika (back)
http://www.boomspeed.com/war2ain/Mika3toki3_WEB.jpg

enjoy!

[enso]

Nice pics

[Wuntu Menny]

Very nice pair of girls! With healthy animals like those, you will have a fine group for breeding.

WM

[dank7oo]

lol - thanks guys
i got those 2 at a MAJR discounted price ... the store got in a bredding trio, and like fools sold the male separately!
well they marked down the price from 1 200 for the 3, to 400 for the 2, and i just couldnt resist!

[CDN-Cresties]

VERY NICE PICS, GREAT COLOUR :)



-Steve-

[Trace]

Hey everyone... time add my 2 cents to this thread!

i have eggs coming at a rate of a clutch a month or so, between the 2 of them, and TRACE currently has 5 of my eggs, trying to save em ...

Well... not so much save them, as I couldn't bear the fact that your folks wouldn't let you incubate them. You know me, I won't give up on eggs! As I've said to you already, I don't think they are fertile, they don't look quite "right", but I'm doing all I can here. We do need to find you a male ceph though, I would really, REALLY, like to see you be successful with breeding these guys as you've done a fantastic job with your females. Anyone out there with a male they want to part with? Hint hint.

And Wuntu Menny: It's too bad your eggs didn't hatch, what sort of techniques were you using? I'm following the AdCham sheet and I've got Jason's eggs in damp vermiculite and keeping them at a constant 80F... and hoping for the best.

My computer is suffering from some sort of illness at the moment, but when that's sorted out I'll try to post some of the pics we got of ours.

I'd LOVE to see some pics when your pooter is feeling better. I read your "reintroduction" thread and saw you have worked with a number of interesting species. Oustalets is certainly on my want list of chameleons. What else have you worked with?

Cheers!

Trace

[dank7oo]

bleh ... my comp is messed too :@ maybe my older sister should stop the dl on the crap she gets ... anyways i would love to see your pics as well WM

[Wuntu Menny]

I used the same damp vermiculite and incubated at 79-82F. All the fertile eggs developed normally through the course of their term. As hatching approached, they even began to sweat and shrink. Two out of around fourty pipped their shells, but all died in the egg fully formed and ready to pop.

As far as the eggs not looking quite right, how do you mean? They are a little rounder and not as elongated as alot of other species. Also, they have that nice raised pattern of tiny stars on their shells similar to C. montium eggs.

Once the eggs are about two months in, you can use a small flashlight to "candle" them without touching them. If you see fine vascular development through the shell, they should be fertile. If the light reflected appears yellow, it a dud. I found that even infertiles continued to grow without rotting or molding.

I've also worked with C. calyptratus, C. montium, F. pardalis, F. verrucosus, F. oustaleti, and R. spectrum. All great species for different reasons, but I still think the cephs were best. Trace, keep looking for those oustalet's, they are spectacular. Just be prepared for enormous caging as they do get huge. The male I had was amazingly calm and didn't mind handling at all.

WM

[Trace]

Hey again WM! :D

It's a darn shame you didn't get those cephs to hatch... they were sssooo close! You have to give yourself credit though, you tried, the parents were WC animals to begin with and they are certainly hard to acclimate into captivity and you were successful with them. I guess Mother Nature sometimes has different ideas.

As for these 5 eggs I have, they are not that round, nor do they have that star pattern, although they haven't collapsed or anything yet. When I first extracted the eggs from Jason's cage, I candled them and they didn't look quite "right" at that point either. Right now 3 of the eggs don't "glow" (best word I can use to describe it) at all when I candle them, and the 2 others are glowing yellow. This is a retained sperm clutch, if in fact she was actually bred as the pet store owner claims, so the likelihood of them being fertile is slim. I will not give up on these eggs though... I'm more stubborn than they are! FYI: the eggs were deposited on July 10th and I extracted them a few days later on July 13th so they are not that old yet.

Yeah... if I ever get an Oustalets, or some Parsons (another dream chameleon) I would almost devote an entire room to those guys. I think it would be neat to work with a cham that gets sssooo HUGE! I do have a male F. verrucosus who is large, but not big and like your Oustalets, he is the biggest baby, and wants to be held, or sit on my shoulder all day.

Cheers!

Trace

[dank7oo]

ahhh
trace knows more than me about my own pets ... kinda creepy! lol .. but i really have to hand it to her, she is absolutly wonderful in the sence that she always wants to lend a hand .. THANKS TRACE :D
(see knows everything ... i swear!)