Hognose

[Pia]

I'm thinking about getting a western hognose snake (heterodon nasicus) and have been doing some reading but would like to hear from anyone who has one. My first question is that mice are readily available for food but not frogs or lizards which they apparently also eat. Is a diet of just mice healthy for them? Any info on this and all other aspects of their care is appreciated:-)

[SCReptiles]

I think there will always be negative repercussions when you move a snake from its natural food. Many people move cobras from snakes to rats, but we are noticing that the rat eating cobras tend to have a shorter life span, then the snake eating cobras. Roark still feeds his monster king snakes, and I think he said this snake is over 20 years old. (Don’t quote me on the age, he mentioned it in passing and I didn’t write it down) I don’t think there should be a problem getting your hog to take frozen and thawed toads. You can collect enough in the spring to feed him all year and freeze them.

[Colonel SB]

Hogies make great pets, just make sure they are CBB and eating mice.

[Christina]

Hognoses will do fine on mice/rat pinkies as long as it is a CB.

If it is a WC than you will have to do the natural feeding.
Freezing the toads is an excellent idea.

[Pia]

Thanks for the info everyone. If I do get one it will definitely be CB. There is a local breeder who has a good reputation and all their reptiles and snakes are CB. Thanks for the hint on the frogs/toads. I want to feed as close to the natural diet as possible. Now I'll just have to catch them:-)

[SCReptiles]

Hognoses will do fine on mice/rat pinkies as long as it is a CB.

What research are you basing this on? I really do not think that is the case. All the research I know of shows a shorter life span on snakes that are altered from there natural diet. IE, rat eating cobras and mice eating water snakes. Sure they will eat them and will gain weight and look healthy. Naturally eating red meat over fish and toads will add weight, but is it healthy? I do not believe so. I do not think the body is equipped to digest red meat, regardless of captive born or not. Captive breeding a snake does not change its biological make up.

[Sean_.E.]

SCReptiles, if your statement is true about hognose snakes then how come many herpers have successfully kept and bred western hognose snakes on a diet of mice. They do eat mice in the wild, just not all the time. This subject could be argued about over and over again. No animal in the wild ONLY eats mice! Most animals will eat any suitable sized prey that they can catch. I agree about animals that ONLY eat a certain prey (ie. snake eaters). They would be more healthy if you fed them their natural diet, but then again so would EVERY animal, wouldnt they?

Just my 2 cents worth.

[Sean_.E.]

SCReptiles, if your statement is true about hognose snakes then how come many herpers have successfully kept and bred western hognose snakes on a diet of mice. They do eat mice in the wild, just not all the time. This subject could be argued about over and over again. No animal in the wild ONLY eats mice! Most animals will eat any suitable sized prey that they can catch. I agree about animals that ONLY eat a certain prey (ie. snake eaters). They would be more healthy if you fed them their natural diet, but then again so would EVERY animal, wouldnt they?

Just my 2 cents worth.

[SCReptiles]

herpers have successfully kept and bred western hognose snakes on a diet of mice.

Of course they have. I said they will eat them and will look healthy. Just the red meat diet shortens the life span. And no, most do not eat mice in the wild. You have to scent the mice with toads to get them to take mice in captivity.

[Vanan]

Hey Chuck, your arguement is valid regarding most hogs. BUT, Western hogs have been known to raid nests of rodents in the wild. So we're not talking one pinky a month here. I have yet to see records of premature death in w hogs due to an all rodent diet. It's pretty easy to find this one out as with most snakes who die of an all rodent diet, they die from fatty liver disease which is apparent when an necropsy is done. Also, there have been cases (pers comm) where baby w hogs started on pinks right away.

On the other hand, the eastern hogs ARE strictly amphibian eaters and are not known to take rodents in the wild. At least not as frequent as the westerns. Easterns on an all rodent diet have been known (pers comm) to die prematurely due to fatty liver disease. The regualrity if this occurence is unknown, but there has been cases. This has been known to occur in Nerodia also.

Basically if you want to switch to an all rodent diet do your research and find out what they eat in the wild. They know what's best for them, at least most of the time! ;)

[SCReptiles]

I concede to Vanan who has obviously researched this far more then me. =) Feed the westerns all the mice you want.

[Oliverian]

Thats a big cobra.... I didn't know they got that big :S Again how does he keep it from biting him? Its got its hood flared, doesn't that mean it's mad?

[Vanan]

Aw shucks Chuck! All I had to do was make some offerings to the Almighty Hognoses of the Wild West and they spilled the beans to me. It's easy, just find some toads and...

;)

[Vanan]

Oh btw Tammy, yes, a hooding cobra is a defensive cobra. How those guys do it, I dunno. Luck, experience, knowing the snakes you deal with. All I can say is kudos to those who work with elapids (hands on or off).

[Stockwell]

Personally I don't understand. I've been breeding western hogs for 15 years or so.
Mine always eat pinks. I have lots of them an they are all fed mice, and they reproduce to make babies that eat..only mice.
there will be some at the SORBE

[SCReptiles]

Thats a big cobra.... I didn't know they got that big :S Again how does he keep it from biting him? Its got its hood flared, doesn't that mean it's mad?

That cobra in the picture is over 15’ long and is believed to be the largest venomous snake in captivity. She has ended the careers of two herpetologists. She is very defensive and will bite if given the opportunity. You keep it from biting by keeping the head at bay. When they are hooded, it doesn’t necessarily mean they are mad, they will also hood when curious and trying to get a better look at something.

[Vanan]

When they are hooded, it doesn’t necessarily mean they are mad, they will also hood when curious and trying to get a better look at something.

Really? Neat! Never knew that. Thanks Chuck. Always learn something. Elapids are so awesome! Very different snakes that's fer sure.

[Vanan]

Hmmm still I wonder why hooding would be of any benefit when they're curious or trying to get a better look. Wouldn't that give away their location. Most snakes try to stay hidden. Maybe they're just audacious SOB's! lol

[Pia]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SCReptiles
. She has ended the careers of two herpetologists. ]


Not to be morbid, but did they die from being bitten by her?

[Zoe]

I was wondering that too Pia!

Zoe