How much do your ball pythons weight this year?

[Piebald Guy]

Hi All,

I got a ball (this year's hatch) and she was 341 grams 7 days ago. She ate mice but when I got her, the next night threw in a weaned rat pup (30g). She hit hard. Three days later, two rat pups (76g total) and last night (two night later) she hit a 50g live rat pup again. She also deficated two nights ago.

Today she is distictly larger so I weighed her. She's up to almost 500 grams. At this pace she'll be up to breeding size by october (I wish). What has everyone experienced with weight gain? Any input is appricated.

Thanks

[sapphire_moon]

You should only be feeding her once every 5-10 days!!! If you keep "power feeding " her she will have a big body........and a little head, and there are other problems that can come from that to! If you wanted a breeder you should have purchased an adult female!

[lilyskip]

It's really unhealthy to be feeding a snake that often. Her instinct to eat comes from the fact that, in the wild, snakes never know when their next meal will be, and eat when they get the chance. Ball pythons' metabolisms are way to slow to feed her more than once every 5-10 days, and 7-14 days when she's grown.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Ball Pythons have as fast of a metabolism as you let them have (almost). Feed it as much as it will eat. You'd be surprised how much they can eat. All the horror stories about overweight boids from decades ago was because they simply kept them too cold so they didn't digest properly. Its a python, feed it like one.

Male pastel that was 1100g at 8 months of age and sired 3 clutches of eggs at 10 months of age. Ooooooo....he's sooo unhealthy. Whatever.


http://members.shaw.ca/gallerya/pastel1.jpg

[Piebald Guy]

Nice animal Jeff. Looks like one from Mark, nice and healthy. He gets his ball pythons up to the 1000gram mark within the first year on a regular basis. I don't feel its unhealthy as well. If the snake doesn't want to eat it won't. I would amagine if I fed at this pace, at some point it would start to refuse the odd meal.

Thx
Dave

[Piebald Guy]

I don't know what's going on with this one, but I bought a female as a "problem feeder" (live only) three weeks ago. Starting about 5 days after I got her, I have offered and she has taken a F/T rat (between 112 and 144 grams) every four days. She hits them right off the tongs. She's had five rats in about two weeks and is up to over 1700 grams from just under 1300. She deficated hair one day then bone the next or day after. (it's the one that escaped last week, she's ate twice since then, like you said with extra vigor and zest).

[Jeff_Favelle]

Its a Markus Jayne BP for sure. He's got crazy big BP's man!!

Feed her if she wants it man. She will digest (if she has access to 95F AND 75F in the same enclosure). Putting BP's in new cages is often a trick to get them to eat. We do it all the time.

You must be doing something right if she wants to eat so much in your care. Keep doing it and keep offering her food. She won't be breeding size next year (ha ha, I know you were joking), but she will most likely lay Spring 2005.

Good luck my man. You are doing excellent! :D Wish all my BP's ate like that! Lucky *******!

[BoidKeeper]

Here are some numbers for a female I’m hopping to be able to work with this year.
D.O.B. Spring 02

From July 26, 02 to July 6, 03 she's had 8 sheds.

From August 8, 02 to July 06, 03 she's gained 915g. Currently she weighs about 1100g.

From July 23, 02 to July 9, 03 she's had 45 meals.

From November 23, 02 to July 9, 03 she has eaten 1452g of rat meat.

From July 02 to July 03 she has defecated 13 times.

She's never refused a meal.

I’ve observed that she has been demonstrating cool seeking behaviour for about a month now, which is a sign of follicular development. That’s an encouraging sign, I just hope she hits a healthy 1500g by the end of November.
Thanks,
Trevor

[Piebald Guy]

Jeff,

Is this true? See this is one of those nitty gritty questions that experience (or some nice people that will fill you in on the details) teaches. I spoke with Mark at the show last weekend. His pastels seem like they don't lose a bit of colour with age. Beautiful animals. He should produce alot of pastels for you. Good luck on your super project.

Dave

[BoidKeeper]

Jeff, roaming is folicle development?
Cool seeking behaviour 4-8 months prior to the breeding season is a sign of folliculare development. Also stronger then normal feeding response and some added aggression towards the end of the development.
Cheers,
Trevor

[Piebald Guy]

Good to hear one is going to turn out (maybe if I can get my two w/c's eating I will have three for this season).

So is there any apparent behavour for males that are entering sexual maturity?

[BoidKeeper]

Most of the literature I have is all-pertinent to the female because she is the key. Males will breed at 800g some say less. As long as they are kept in an environment that has a change in seasonal day light cycles and a seasonal change in ambient air temp you should be fine. Some people cool their bps others just let the change in day light cycles and ambient air temp do it.
One way to tell if a male is old enough is to check for sperm plugs. Role you thumb up the base of the tail towards the vent applying gentle pressure as you go and if is producing sperm they will pop out.
http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/507/289image007.jpg
Cheers,
Trevor

[Jeff_Favelle]

Trev is right. Females seek cooler areas of the cage, they coil around objects (water dishes, hide boxes), they lay upside down, they roam, etc etc etc. They just act differently. Its easy to tell.

But sometimes they ovulate and lay eggs without you even noticing. Like in the late summe when you think that they weren't going to do anything! Its weird. There is no set formula, but they are pretty easy to breed.

Males will breed easily at 600-800g and females have a good chance at going at 1500g. Try it and find out man!!

Best of luck! Glad to chat with ya!

[mykee]

I realize that thre original topic has been buried in here, but I'm chiming in, once again, with an aggreement with Jeff, that old 5-7 days feeding rule, is an outdated rule of thumb. If your ball will eat, feed it. You'd only wish you had put all the food in them you could get when you start to pull your hair out at month three of an off-feed cycle.

[Serpent-King]

Awsome, you're power feeding your snake. Wise decision.

[Colonel SB]

That is one amazing pastel jeff.

[BoidKeeper]

Look at that pastel, does it look unhealthy or fat to you? Jeff's not say go with a 5, 7 or 10 day schedual, I don't think he keeps a schedual. He's saying feed them when their hungry. You can make a snake fat if you feed too often and keep it too cold. Proper temps are the key.
Trevor

[Jeff_Favelle]

Snake's don't eat every 5-7 days in the wild. Why do we think they have the mechanisms that say this is the BEST schedule to feed them? Well that's easy. Its the schedule that allows the lay-person to make the FEWEST mistakes.

I'm not a lay person anymore. Neither is Trev. Nor Mykee. Therefore the 5-7 day schedule becomes obsolete. We're not going to make the mistakes that would ALLOW for an animal to be overfed.

Its all about understanding, not about running your mouth saying "power feeding, power feeding, bla bla bla, your bad, your snake's unhealthy etc etc".

Righto.

[mykee]

Allow me to put this into easier terms to comprehend: you have a pet hamster, let's call him Hammy. Now, you love Hammy VERY much. You play with Hammy any opportunity you get. You have a hamster wheel in his cage, a big ball for him to run around your house in, and a cool 'Habitrail' (TM) cage. Now, do you feed Hammy 12 hamster pellets twice a day? No. Because if you did, poor Hammy would be unhappy, possibly malnourished, or maybe rotting from the inside out. What you do do, is fill his little ceramic food dish with all the food that will fit in there, and let him eat when he wants to. He will only eat as much as he wants, and will live a generally happier life this way. Sounds pretty foolhardy to limit the amount of food furry little Hammy gets, doesn't it? Do you love Hammy more than your snakes?....... No? Since it is not possible to fill Monty's or Hiss' little ceramic food dish with live, F/T or F/K mice, rats or?..... what we do as responsible snake owners, if offer them food as often as possible, and they, like the aformentioned Hammy, will only eat what it wants.

[Piebald Guy]

She hit again tonight. A 55 gram rat pup. Two days since the last. Man she's eating good. I'll weigh her tomorrow and post. This one's a keeper for sure.

[mykee]

Congratulations, keep up the good work.

[LORI34205]

how many grams is a pound???

[mykee]

453.59g = 1 pound.

[remsin76]

wait wait...so...as long as i ahve good temps its ok to feed my 3 month old a crawler every 3-4 days???? he certainly can eat one every 4 days no problem.

also, my snake is handled often. i take him out and put him on my desk to roam for about an hour a day. will this "excercise" help him become healthier?? or help him use up his food faster??

[remsin76]

also, feeding a snake a lot will this make him just really really fat? or will this make it longer too???

well humans can eat and eat but we wont grow an inch of height.. haa

[Piebald Guy]

Wow, she deficated for the second time since I had her (picker her up at the show) and I just weighed it. She is 544 grams. She's gained 203 grams since July6. 10 days! And the weight is after defication. Plus she has gained 25-35% additional diameter as well.

I think I might have a mutant snake on my hands. LOL (just kidding, it's nice to get a good eater once in a while).

[sapphire_moon]

like remsin76 asked. If I feed my snake every 3-4 days (she's a little over 3 ft now, and most likely will eat every 3-4 days, she has never refused a meal!) will she just get fat? Or will she also get longer??????

[Jeff_Favelle]

...and thanks ColonelSB!!! It was from Mark Mandic last year!! :D

[TardGirl]

My 3 year old female bp is about 5 pounds, Is this about right for her size she's a little over 4 feet long, About 7 1/2 inches wide. Does she weigh to much? or not enough? She eats 1 large gerbil or rat a week.

[Piebald Guy]

7-1/2" wide?!?!?!?!?!

Thats just over 25.5" in circumference! Impossible!

Eats one large rat or gerbil per week? If that's true your dancing with danger in the pale moon light. Typically its one way or the other. If you ever had a w/c (i got screwed on two of them now) you will know EXACTLY what I mean. Once you go gerbils it's not impossible, but highly unlikely it will feed on rats without alot of work later. It's also not impossible that the sun will not rise tommorrow as well :) get it?

[Piebald Guy]

Shappire,

Yes it will grow longer (until it reaches it's max genetic length). Shouldn't get fat. If you are feeding one small or medium rat every 3-4days no prob. If its as big as the animal could phycially choke down (like a 450 gram rat, lol) every 3 then yes you have a problem. Snakes are not like dogs, they will not eat, barf it up and go right back to eating more, barfing it up, right back to eating more, until the food is gone. They are more like cats, they eat until they are satisfied then that is it. Can't make them eat you know (sans force feeding, but if you force feed a heathy and feeding snake just to add more weight you should be shot).

Like Jeff F. said, feed 'em as much as they'll take. Just keep them warm.

BTW my "problem feeder" (live only) female just ate another 142 gram F/T rat. Anouther animal gaining good weight. 400+ grams in extra body weight in the last 19 days.

Dave

[sapphire_moon]

Ok well she just ate her last two adult mice, and I've tried her on a small (I think thats what it was) rat, and she ate that......So another question I have is am I correct that the females get bigger than the males? Is it always like that or can the males get bigger than a female?

[Piebald Guy]

Females will grow larger then males typically. It all depends on genetics. Sure I guess there is a chance you could compare a runt, problem feeding female to a good eating male but in general, the females will be larger. Remember the female lays the eggs. Have you seen ball eggs? They are HUGE! and if she needs to lay 12 of them (1500g) and lose half her body weight, you can see why the females are larger.

Dave

Re-check your measurements. They are REALLY out to lunch. 7.5" wide is near the size of a burm! Maybe a REALLY fat blood. No where near what a ball can get to. Get a tape measure, meaure two feet, wrap it in a circle. Is this the size of your ball python? If so, yep she's 7.5" wide (highly doubt it though, not tring to dump on you in anyway, just want you to think about what you say before you say it, if you are under the age of majority I'm sorry, that's a skill that takes a few years to develop after that).

[fanmaninacan]

I thought power feeding snakes is when u force feed em more then they acctually want to eat....

But ur ur ball is just takeing alot of food...
Then ist that a good thing.......


T.P

[Piebald Guy]

No, power feeding is just an expression for feeding the snake more than what "the norm" is considered (7-10 days is the popular misconception for an adult). Force feeding is if I take the rat, kill it, grab my snake that doesn't feel like eating because I fed it yesterday, open its mouth and start cramming the rat down its throat, let it go and see if it swallows. If it doesn't grab the snake, grab the dead rat, open the snakes mouth...... or worse, put a nice big rat in a blender, hit puree and listen to the bones snap!!! suck it up with a nice big syringe, install the 18" tube, open the snakes mouth, ram the tube down the snakes throat and push the ratty goodness into the snake's stomach.

That sounds really, really bad but it is actually what you do in a graphic, biased view when your hatchling won't eat. I would be sick but not surprised if someone ever did it to a healthy eating snake though.

Dave

[TardGirl]

Sorry i just must have said it wrong, She is 7" in. Around her body, like you know wrapping my hands around her, thats what i was trying to say but said it wrong, Sorry :(

[remsin76]

PIED Ball guy...

so how old is your snakes?
how muhc does he weight?
and how long is he?????

[Piebald Guy]

Age= unknown (I am assuming this year's CH stock from Africa, first shipments)

Purchased on July 6/03 at 341 grams and 1.5' in length. Diameter was 3/4" at mid-body. Ate mice.

July 16/03- Has eaten 5 live rat pups (between 27 and 55 grams) and weighs 544 grams. Length is up to near 2' and diameter is an incredible 1.5". She has doubled her girth (temporary) and over half her body weight.


Not bad but my adult "problem feeding" (live only) female hit AGAIN last night taking her total to 6 medium F/T rats in three weeks. She hits them within 5 seconds of approching her and she takes them right off the tongs. So she has grown from under 1300 grams to over 1700 grams in three weeks(after defications).

Not bad!! Testomony to Mark Mandic's rack design. It produces eating machines. I use it for hatchlings right up to adults. I don't even use a hide box. Every CH or CB animal I have prefers hiding underneath the newspaper. All my w/c's use hide boxes.

Dave