Rest in peace, sweet Rosemary

[eyespy]

The second of the two rescues I took in just died. Poor Rosemary was incredibly stressed by her throat wounds and treatment and was completely freaked out by the breathing and feeding tubes she needed.

My friend Tom, a veterinary anesthesiologist, was the vet who came by today to assess her and we both agreed her quality of life was very poor and her wounds were not healing anywhere near fast enough because of all the stress.

Even though the nasotracheal tube was thin enough that she could have eaten normally had she chosen, the whole thing freaked her out way too much and she had to be fed through a stomach tube. We couldn't see how she would gain enough strength to start proper healing since an entire week made little difference except causing even more stress.

We sent some CO2 and isoflurane gases down her breathing tube to gently send her to sleep and give her peace at last. She died 10 minutes ago. I held her and stroked her and now I'm off to have a good long cry. Even though I knew she only had a slim chance of healing well it's hard to truly prepare for this kind of stuff.

The poor sweet girl!

She was a 6 year old girl who had lived with her 5 year old female cagemate for about 4 years and they had always gotten along quite well. The family recently bought a male who was still in quarantine as a possible mate for them. We think that seeing and smelling him probably triggered ovulation in both girls and they became territorial over a possible nest site. It's just a guess but this is a fairly common scenario for sudden aggression in female cagemates. Sadly, this sort of thing happens occasionally when a new beardie is added to the household, even when they aren't caged together.

[Dragon_Slave]

Eyespy... I am so sorry for both of your losses. I can't even imagine how hard it must be to have to put a dragon to sleep. We had to put our dog to sleep when I was 5 and that was one of the hardest things that I've ever had to deal with... I dread the day when my dragons die.

[eyespy]

Well, Dragon Slave, as you continue your studies I'm afraid that you'll find out yourself just how hard it is. Unfortunately almost all the cases of euthanasia I've experienced are from totally avoidable causes such as cagemate aggression or unsuitable substrate. Those 2 causes alone are responsible for anywhere between 50 to 75% of surgical cases.

At Penn, nearly one third of all cases brought in for sugery should have been brought in days ago and we end up being forced to euthanize but that doesn't make it any easier. You just get more frustrated at all the misinformation that perpetuates these problems. If people didn't so blithely keep saying that females can be caged together the owners might have been more sensitive to the development of aggression that killed these females. We see about 10,000 cases of this every year in the reptile surgery department, with about 3,000 that need euthanasia. That's the real heartbreak.

Gypsy's chart on the medical management side of the clinic recommended caging her separately for 3 years because she was gradually losing weight and didn't ovulate due to high blood cortisol levels, meaning aggression issues had been building for some time. In her case the owner knew she should live alone but just flat out refused to do so. Plus this owner kept demanding something was wrong with Gypsy, rather than her own husbandry, because Gypsy never became gravid! Overcrowding stress is the #1 reason for sterile dragons but the owner just didn't want to hear it. She was caged with a male and another female, and it was the female who clamped down on her head and shook her hard enough to cause skull fractures and brain hemorrhages.

So she ended up in emergency surgery but dying of her wounds anyway. We are debating whether to bring charges of animal cruelty against this owner.

[JoeBradley]

I feel sorry for both of these dragons but I do not feel that animal cruelty charges should be brought against this owner. There is too much bad information floating around on animal care that it is hard to tell what is true and what is not. One book will say cage them together as long as they are the same size and another will say never cage them together. Some say use sand and some say never use sand. Bearded Dragon books and web sites cannot even agree on whether they need uvb or not. I know from experience that it is trial and error when you keep a reptile. What works for some people may kill yours. I have seen cages with multiple dragons get along fine and then you have this case where one kills the other. We must remember these are wild animals. Nothing is ever certain about how they will react when caged in a tank. This owner had no idea this was going to happen. I am sure the vet gave her the best advise he had and turned out he was right but everyone else that told her to house them together thought they were right too. Who does an owner listen to?

[eyespy]

According to PA state laws, we've been very lenient with this owner already. Were it a dog, cat or rodent the fact that 3 years of veterinary advice were ignored would have gotten her entire collection confiscated with the possibility of fines and/or jail time. Gypsy is not the only animal to suffer fallout from abuse/neglect, she was just the only fatality. There are at least 16 other bearded dragons with health issues under her care.

Fish and Boating is not as aggressive as Agriculture and they oversee reptile abuse cases in my state, but we are still bound to report the incident and recommend sanctions by state law.

[JoeBradley]

Ahhhh, the rest of the story. Of course if this person has a track record of neglect something should be done. I thought this was a first time issue.
Are you a reptile vet? I see quite a few post by you and a lot of people referring others to you. You seem to come highly recomended when it comes to getting good advise.

[drewlowe]

eyespy I'm sorry for the loss of these 2 beardies in your care. I'm completely speechless. It has brought up some issues i really need to look into. THank you for posting this and letting all of us know i'm sure this situation has cause a few of us to rethink how we cage our reptiles. (or at least me).

[eyespy]

I'm a former veterinary surgical tech, so I know "cutter" stuff moreso than medical management of diseases. I'm far from being a vet, way too many holes in my education. :D

For the past 3 years I've run an at-home rehab, primarily for postoperative cases that are too challenging for the owners to handle, feeding tubes and wound drains and suchlike.

[JoeBradley]

So you get to see the actual worse-case-scenarios. How did you get into rehab? Do you have to be permited or did your veterinary background and contacts get you involved? I guess you have to be real careful about getting too attached to some of the animals you are rehabing. Do these animals go back to the original owners or do they get put up for adoption?

[eyespy]

You have to have permits from US Fish and Wildlife, the US Dept. of Agriculture plus usually state-level permits as well to do the in-depth stuff I do but lots of folks can run small scale rescues without them. I actually perform invasive procedures such as blood draws, suturing, insertion of stomach or breathing tubes, and installing wound drains so that all requires permits and a healthcare practitioner's license. Even though I no longer work in an operating suite I have to keep my certified veterinary surgical techician's status in order to legally do those things.

The vast majority of my cases had surgery on Saturday morning, are dropped off at my place when the day's cases are done, and stay with me until Monday night, when one of the vets comes to the house for rounds and discharges them back to their owners' care, thank goodness. I occasionally have animals that will need new homes once they recover but I try to avoid taking in those cases because I do tend to get too attached and want to keep them forever. Plus that means I would have less room for animals that have severe but short-term needs.

Most of the guys needing rehoming are abuse cases that were either confiscated by animal control officers or voluntarily surrendered and could break your heart. I try not to take in those cases because they are emotionally draining plus it's really hard for me to screen potential adoptive owners. I get so frustrated by folks who will say whatever they think you want to hear just to get a free animal. So I usually bow out of those cases and help to find a rescue that has room for those animals.

Back when I was a vet surge tech, I primarily worked the clinics the U of Penn vets run at local humane societies so I usually worked Saturdays and just got in the habit of rehabbing the day's post-ops because owners were all freaked out about the vets' offices not being open and what if something happened. When a latex allergy shelved my career it just seemed natural to say "hey, I'll still take the post-ops into my home if a vet or two or six would agree to come and do rounds....." and so a rehabber was born.

But now I'm stuck cooking dinner and watching Monday Night Football (in season) with a group of herp nerds. ;)

[Dragon_Slave]

Eyespy... I know this was a while ago but I am so sorry for doubting your knowledge on reptiles. I feel like a real idiot now because you are SO smart and I was SO ignorant. Again... I'm sorry.

[eyespy]

de nada, chica, all in the past. :)

It was nice to hear you say so but really not necessary. I kind of enjoy a debate once in awhile.

[raebug2000]

man oh man it really pisses me off when people take animals and they have really no clue as to how to take care of or house them....i cant even watch animal cops on animal planet without thinking " stupid uncaring humans"

*sigh* im sorry to hear about that female, that truly is a shame.
im glad that the animals i have i know that they will be well taken care of...