Black elaphe janseni? Gonyosoma oxycephala? What is this snake?

[Scales Zoo]

Well, we got a young gonysoma oxycephala from a friend a couple of months ago. It was a weird colored one, I thought it may turn out to be one of those purple ones. It's tail wasn't really red, more black I guess. I didnt' pay as much attention as I should have.

So Katt and Vanan came here, and on Friday, Sheila showed them or snakes. The gony had just shed, and to our suprise, it was jet black, with some faint color on its face.

It looks very much like the very rare melanistic janseni.

We are trying to find scalation numbers for janseni, but there isn't much information on the net - and I haven't found much about them in any of my books.

I'll post some pictures, it is a very nice snake.

And if you are reading this Simon, nananabooboo.

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/763mvc-015s.jpg

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/763mvc-014s.jpg

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/763mvc-010s.jpg

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/763mvc-007s.jpg

http://www.ssnakess.com/photopost/data/500/763mvc-004s-med.jpg

[Scales Zoo]

One other thing, this snake was purchased at Petland Saskatoon last year. I believe they got it from Massassaga imports.

They had some green snakes, and some oddly colored ones if I remember correctly.

Anyone else know of someone who's red tailed green rat turned black? If so, I'd probably be interested in buying it.

Ryan

[Simon R. Sansom]

Ohhh, yeah...I'm liking this. From glancing at my references I can't venture to make a call on it.
I think that it could very well be G. oxycephala. Apparently there are quite a few colour variations in this species.
However, to me, the snout of the snake in your pics does not seem quite slender enough to be a Red-Tailed Green. It's really hard to say.

I hope that you are able to identify it properly. At any rate, it's a beautiful animal.
It certainly looks as though it's doing very well. Is it a good feeder?

Thanks for sharing. I love weird stuff like this.

Simon

[Tim and Julie B]

Cool pics. But we agree with Simon that it does not look like a Red Tailed Green. Looks more like an Asian Rat Snake. Zaocys. The colorations and markings are often quite different from juvi to adult. Juvis tend to have yellowish markings on a dark background, crossbands, and blk-brn longitudinal stripes. Adults darken, often becoming melanistic. From what we see in pics from the pics at our disposal ( The completely illustated atlas of reptiles and amphibians for the terrarium) (say that fast three times:D) the scalation matches on the head. Just a thought. Nice snake no matter how ya slice it.
Tim and Julie

[Scales Zoo]

I agree it doesn't look like a red tailed green rat. The head scalation is very similar, but different. It is also less laterally compressed than our other gonysoma.

However, It doesn't look to me like any of the pictures I have seen of Zaocys. Similar eyes, but markedly different head shape.

Simon, it is a great eater, and appears to have very healthy looking feces.

If I had to guess, I'd say it is a black janseni at this point.

Coincidentally, black janseni have been one of my most sought after snakes after the moment I saw pictures of one. An asian ratsnake with the color of an indigo, how much better can you get.

Anyone know people keeping janseni?

We will be away for a week, but feel free to keep this thread active in my absence - I am very interested to learn more about this snake we have.

Ryan

[crimsonking]

Just a bit "glossy" don't you think to be an elaphe? I know zero about either suspected ssp. Nice snake.
:Mark

[Katt]

I'm the one who identified this snake as a janseni, yes, the shirt and blue nails are mine. The head scalation looks strikingingly similar to Gonyosoma and you can even see the little green bits on the face. We compared it to a green Gonyo. Now I'm under the impression that at one point the janseni and the oxycephala, were considered the same.

Janseni I believe is under Gonyosoma anyhow. Please note this picture.

<img src="http://www.tuug.utu.fi/~herpit/kuvat/janseni/jansuli-002.jpg">

And note the headscales. Also this picture.

<img src="http://www.ratsnakes.com/images/Ejanseni2.jpg">

You can see she has scales somewhere in between these two snakes and both of them are janseni.

Note the stunning array of black/cream/white patterns the janseni posess.

http://www.tuug.utu.fi/~herpit/janseni/

[Tim and Julie B]

And here I thought Sheila wasn't wearing black. :D Silly me!:D

[Scales Zoo]

We discussed Katts shirt when we took the pictures.

Sheila would never be caught dead in such dorky clothing.

Back in Black
Ryan

[Katt]

EXCUSE ME!?!?!

DORKY!!

I'll have you know I think that's a kick butt shirt. It's so funky and retro!!

Actually I'm wearing a black tee with a rattlesnake on it. I'm styling!

[Linds]

Those are crazy looking eyes!

[sapphire_moon]

Whatever that snake is it's absolutely beautiful....icy sheer blue eyes on a snake! WOW....I hope you can identify it, because I want one!!!

[Simon R. Sansom]

Hi Guys,
After considering this one for quite a while, I have come to the conclusion that it's a G. oxycephala. I base this on the fact that while there are several phases of both oxycephala and Janseni, your specimen has green colouration on it, which I have not seen recorded in janseni.

If I had to bet on it, I'd go with Red-tailed Green. It is an extreme colour variation, though.

I wish we had some locale data for that specimen.

Cheers!

Simon

[Scales Zoo]

Hi Simon, my jurry is still out on this one.

I'd like to get a Janseni to compare to it.

If this is a black oxycephala then (and to borrow a phrase from Favelle) Holy Moly! Send me big females!

Ryan

[Scales Zoo]

Sheila just told me we bought this snake as a female - so I guess I'm going to have to probe it. Don't send big females just yet.

Ryan

[Simon R. Sansom]

Ryan and Sheila;

The only person I know off-hand who keeps "janseni" is Jim Demirjian of jdtails.com, in the U.S. . Check out his site. He may be able to shed some light on this.

By the way, I deliberated over a green "oxy" at the Toronto show yesterday. I didn't buy it because of the relative difficulty of finding a mate for him. Plus, I think that there may be some captive-bred ones available later this season.

Cheers!

Simon