need opinions

[Smilts]

today i went to the local pet store to buy mice for my snakes. When i got there the kid who was running the store said they had a new snake there that they were holding for somone. He took me to the cage and inside was a good sized timber rattle snake. the snake was on display on a low shelf with duck tape holding it shut and bungie cords holding the lid. with no adult supervision in the store. It seemed foolish at the least for the parents to be at the house out back but i just want to see what other people thought about it. For the record it really really bothered me

[Lisa]

Sounds a little risky to me. but you probably already know what popular opinion will be. and as great as duct tape is, i wouldn't depend on it in a life and death situation.

[Colonel SB]

I would call the police or animal control becasue that is jsut stupid and dangerous, crap like this hurts the entire hobby. Stupid ppl like this get anti-herp laws passed.

[Smilts]

see i was thinking that but wasnt still not shure if it s illegal

[SCReptiles]

First off, How old was the “kid?” If he can run an entire pet shop, he sounds responsible to me. Also, if he only showed you the snake inside the cage and they had it strapped and taped, I see nothing irresponsible here.

[Smilts]

the kid was maybe twelve and there were alot of people running around he was asking people if they wanted to hold the snakes not that one but the others then when they were holding it he would go do somthing else its a very small pet shop. maybe there is nothing wrong with it i dont know it just bothered me. not to mention that he left the shop twice to go to the house out back and ask prices on rabbits then a 25 gallon tank they had. Im a bit paranoid so maybe Im overreacting

[Mason]

wow, talk about a family buisness.
I'm suprised that the shop doesn't have everything stolen every day....

All animals are pets I guess.. I don't know how I feel otherwize.

[BoidKeeper]

SCReptiles; As a hot keeper don't you feel that this is an acident waiting to happen? Would you cage a hot this way? Have you ever been in a pet store that was proberly equiped for keeping hots? I haven't bee,
Trevor

[Colonel SB]

You must be outta your mind SC, nothing wrong! First off you have a minor dealing with a potentaily deadly animal that is not in a sceure cage...Why would you even expose the public to a dangerous animal like that. I am all for hot keeping but in the propper settings. The cage isn't even locked!!!! Anyone could come up and open the cage not knowing that the animal is dangerous your statments are ludacris, I'm sorry but Coy I'd do something about this before someone gets seriouly hurt.

[Alicewave]

Wether or not is is legal to buy/sell/trade hots in Texas doesn't matter to me. I personally don't feel pet shops anywhere have any business carrying such dangerous creatures. Let alone leaving them in the hands of a 12 year old. I've been in enough pet store to know most don't know a damn thing about reptiles. I'd report them.

[SCReptiles]

Coy, not knowing the kid I can’t make a call on if he should have access to venomous reptiles or not. I do know that Mike Wade, Jim Harrison, Anthony Gay and myself all were field working with rattlesnakes before we were 12. I think Mike caught his first copperhead at age 7. Based on what I read yesterday, it seems he had been shown the proper way to do things. He never attempted to get it out. If the store doesn’t usually carry venomous, then it would be something unusual and most people would do just what he did and point it out to you. Venomous keepers are the most negative bunch you have ever seen. Watch what they do whenever and aspiring venomous keeper asks a question. Sometimes it just makes me sick. If you had posted this in the venomous forum, they would have been all over it saying every negative thing they could, and they will anyway if they get wind of it. But if the snake was securely away from the public and he wasn’t trying to get it out, then I have no problem with it. Now, today I read that he left the shop for awhile. If the general public had easy access to the snake while he was gone, I would have a problem with that.

[SCReptiles]

Trevor, If one advocates the keeping of venomous reptiles, one must necessarily advocate the selling and transporting of venomous reptiles. Most dealers at venomous shows will have all their venomous snakes on display inside of deli cups with tapes on lids. It is the industry standard practice. It is effective and inexpensive. Glade’s Herp, Hank Molt, Roark Ferguson all had their venomous set up in Bristol with taped deli cups. The truth is, the timber in question here, was probably still in the container he was shipped in. From the account yesterday, the snake was taped in a carrying/selling case and inside of a display case, which would have kept him from the general public. If that is true, that is a normal procedure and no, I don’t see that as an accident waiting to happen. If in deed, this snake is left completely unattended while the general public was in the shop, then yes of course that is bad protocol. As for your other question, yes I would keep it that way if the buyer was coming shortly to pick it up. As for our collection, they are in a locked building and inside of locked cages inside that building. I fear ignorant people opening the cages more then I fear the snakes escaping those cages. As for being in a pet shop set up for venomous, Animal Adventures in Bristol, VA has all there venomous well locked up out of public reach.

[SCReptiles]

Oh, I see the ball is rolling. Thanks Colonel SB. Now lets everyone cast all the dispersions we can. We’ll make a contest! Who can be the most negative here?

[Bencb3]

the cage top was being held on by bungies and duct tape? that is the stupidest thing ive ever heard, where are the adults?

[Smilts]

he was in 10 gallon tank not a selling case and it was on a lower shelf of a stand not a dsplay case i said it was on display not in a display case. He was calling it a cotton mouth rattlesnake wich would suggest to me that he hasnt dealt with to many hot snakes

[SCReptiles]

Bencdb3, I take it you have never been to a venomous show. You will be cobras, gaboons, mambas, and everything else with taped on lids. That is the way its bro. its perfectly reasonable.

[SCReptiles]

Coy, you keep adding on information that you didn’t mention before. The more you talk, the less comfortable I am with this situation. If the public could actually reach down and pick up a 10 gallon all glass aquarium with a venomous snake inside, then I have changed my opinion on this matter.

[Colonel SB]

Your more then welcome SC :) I don't get why your trying to make this a posative situation? There is a huge difference between a Hot Show with experianced herpers and a pet store run by some kid! Even if he were a respinsible person he could not possibly watch that tank all the time. And all it takes is a second when is back is turned or he is with another customer for something to happen. I know I've worked in pet stores for almost 10 years now, there is no counting the number of times when I've caught ppl trying to steal animals that wern't in secure cages or when my back was turned. My point is that the situation is inherently dangerous, and they are just asking for trouble. All you need is one misshap and then your get those crazy anti-herp laws passed.

[Smilts]

if it was in a display case on a shelf it wouldnt bother me if parents stay ed in the store it wouldnt bother. im sorry i shoulda explained better wy it bothered me if it was even on the top shelf it wouldnt bother me. its none of my business what they do there its there store. The owner is rather well informed on keeping snakes. The odds that any one will unhook the bungie cords and open it are low. And the snake seems relaxed

[fatboy]

It's not people like the 12yr old and his parents that gets anti-venomous laws passed, it's people that sit here and blast anyone with an opinion. This situation is pretty easily handled....if you don't feel comfortable in that store go somewhere else. You can even order prekilled mice/rats by mail. Your instance with someone trying to steal it...let them get bit....they are breaking the law. Most people know that if a snake has a rattle on it's tail that it is dangerous.

[Smilts]

little kids in with there parents dont always no, but your right its no biggy for me. Ill start going to the store in the next town. Im new to snakes so reading everyones opinion helps. if this is how things are done then fine if not then ohwell i know not to go in there

[JoeBradley]

I worked security at the venomous show in Bristol two weekends ago. To say that only experienced hot keepers come to these shows is way off the mark. I had vendors putting cobras in pillow cases and wanting me to carry them through a show with two hundred men, women and children walking around. (I refused) I carried out a gaboon viper, two cobras and a copperhead in deli cups for a seventeen year old kid that told his mother he was coming to get a ball python. One guy even asked me how to get his new bought cobra out of the pillow case when he got it home. Is this responsible hot keeping?????? These snakes did not come from small local pet stores. They came from highly respected hot keepers and sellers. The best in the nation. I only ran across one venomous vendor that even asked the customer questions about experience and age before he would sell them a venomous snake. These small family owned pet stores have only learned from the what we consider “the best in the business”. Why not use the same methods, if they work for the best??? You want to start policing venomous keepers and venders start at the top not the bottom. Things flow downhill. Quit buying from the “knucklehead professionals” that only care about the money. Teach these smaller business the way it should be done. I was greatly disappointed in the vendors at Bristol and how irresponsible some were. Before you blast this pet store think about how many snakes you have carried home in deli cups. What is good for one of us is good for the other.

[SCReptiles]

Coy, I wouldn’t stop using them. I see nothing there unsafe to you. You said the guy knows his snakes, that is unusual in this business. I would stay with him.

[Smilts]

i dont know my three year old likes to go with me and look at the snakes. he never does so with out me right there with him. he also tried to sell me rotten mice when i asked for new ones he said he must have left them in the fridge(the kid that is) off subject but still annoying. ive been thinking of ordering them anyway

[fatboy]

Not a bad idea in my opinion then. Order from a respectable dealer and you know you'll get quality products. May want to still use them for advise though if they know reptiles even though there is plenty of good advise in here.

[SCReptiles]

SB, can’t really put a positive spin on them leaving a timber in a 10 gallon for the general public to pick up and drop. But I am just sick and tired of venomous keepers continually bitching about everyone else who has a venomous snake. There needs to be a sense of community and there isn’t. Experienced keepers need to answer questions directly and honestly and they don’t. That bothers me. Not only on this board, but all of them and in person as well. Take note of when a young herpers asks a question. For example, “I am about to purchase my first hot. What do you feel is the safest cage.” Instead of an answer, all you will see is “if you have to ask a question like that you don’t need one.” “Stick to corn snakes you are not ready.” That is total crap! And I am sick to death of all the negativity. That same guy Joe wrote about asked me how to get the cobra out of the pillow case and into a cage. Now, of course I would rather he have not gotten the cobra, but he had already bought it and was heading home. I gave him the best instructions I could, but I know he is in trouble. Many would have just told him he was stupid and left him alone. I even gave him my home phone number and told him to call if he ran into problems. We need more of that in venomous herpiculture. (Not the cobra in the pillow case, we need less of that, but more of the willingness to help rather then dispersions.)

[fatboy]

And Joe, I don't really see a reason to change things at the show besides what they are given to you in. Any dealer could spend 88 cents on a small plastic shoe box sized rubbermaid item from Walmart to send the venomous home in. A few holes and some duct tape would be fine in my opinion. I'd hate to see the day when you have to apply to have a snake like you are applying for a hand gun. "Mandatory waiting period for the Monacle Cobra is 14 days Mr. Campbell.....also will need a copy of your birth cert., social security card, and a criminal background search"....hahahaha.

[Colonel SB]

I agree with you on that 100% SC that even some of the top names in the busniess don't care as long as they get thier money. Which I'm my oppinion is sad.

[Smilts]

i would think that the person selling the snake could at least ask a few questions of the buyer. And give some advice before letting a seventeen year old kid after ball pythons go on a cobra. For the record i dont keep hot snakes. some are rely nice lookin but i wouldnt feel right with my kids in the house

[fatboy]

I wouldn't keep them in the "house" at all. My hots will stay out in the back yard in their own locked building in their own locked boxes. I would never put my daughter in danger. A few questions is fine yes but not background. You've got to remember this is how they make a living. If they don't make that sell they may not be able to pay their bills/support their family.

[jncoclub]

To answer the original question- if it seems like a family business, try going to the “family” and voice your concerns in a respectable manner. You may never know what the outcome is. They may not even known what they really have.

[Smilts]

they were mislead by the man they were keeping the snake for its now gone

[SCReptiles]

mislead, how?

[Smilts]

they were told it was not to venomous and would be no problem very docile.

[SCReptiles]

If they are unable to tell that a timber rattlesnake is a timber rattlesnake, they are in the wrong business. =)