veeeeery strange death

[Conas]

i fed all of my baby bp's a mouse 3 days ago. He killed and swallowed the little critter with no problems at all. Yesterday i noticed that the other python's post-meal bulge was nearly gone, but one was huge as before. I then realized that the snake was dead. For some reason, too, he had came back to his neck and bit himself and stayed like that while dying. On his belly, he had darkened skin between his tail and said mouse.

Have any of yall encountered this before? Was my snake sick or did the mouse kill him? All the other snakes are doing just fine. If anyone could please help me understand what may have happened, i would really appreciate it so it doesn't happen again. Thanx

[Zoe]

Well, I've heard of mice regaining consciousness inside a snake's stomach and then they try and bite/claw their way out. Could that have happened?

[JeffT]

Thats bizzare, sorry to hear that man.

[The_Omen]

Well, I've heard of mice regaining consciousness inside a snake's stomach and then they try and bite/claw their way out. Could that have happened?

Sorry.. can't happen...



For some reason, too, he had came back to his neck and bit himself and stayed like that while dying

Most likely, the scent of food either got on his side, or he detected it and saw his own body move, and struck as he was still in feed mode and basically suffocated himself to death.

The large bulge, is (was) the gasses released by the decaying flesh of the mouse.

The dark skin, was it very loose and almost have a paper feel to it and was that portion of the body laying on a heated surface?
Feel a lot lighter than he should have?

Heat will greatly increase the decaying process and cause dark skin in dead animals.

When you feed your snakes, whether live, dead, what ever species.. watch them the entire time and untill they get out of feed mode, just in case.
There have been cases of burms swallowing sheets, blankets and heat pads while still in feed mode.

[Auddi01]

sorry for your loss, i have to agree with omen- i have seen cases where a snake has struck another while in feed mode and even see where two garters had both started swallowing that same worm... i think you know the rest. it seems very likely to me that it could have struck himself.

[Conas]

that is some crazy stuff! i had to look about 300 times to make sure i was really seeing the snake biting itself.

And ooh yeah Burms go into crazy "feeding modes". I was attacked my one when i was little. My dad had just fed it a rabbit and he let it come out of it's cage, it crawled straight at me and bit my arm and wrapped up. No harm no foul though :) Thank yall for the help

[Zoe]

The_Omen:
http://www.ssnakess.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18328

[The_Omen]

Thanks Zoe, but I already posted on that thread......
If you recall, there was no post mortem done and all the signs of the snakes precursor to death are directly in line with a nuerological problem, possibly associated with an unknown substance.
That mouse didn't come back to life.

I have even heard silly questions like that while handling frozen rodents - 'Do they come back to life when they are thawed?'
Sorry, but no, they are dead.


Edited by The_Omen to correct a spelling error.

[The_Omen]

To toss further support at the strength of scents and a feeding response.
I was wrapped by my male retic after what seemed a long enough time to be done with the feeding response.
I retrieved him from the tote AFTER washing my hands well.
Problem was, a few drops of water, from the F/T were on his sides and got onto my hand while picking him up.
Needless to say, he was calm right up to when he smelled the water on my hand.
Bite... wrap..... lemon juice..
Their jacobsons organs are a LOT stronger than our burnt out in societies odors noses and they can smell a food items scent, even after we think we eliminated it all.
if they are still in any type of feed mode and feel like snacking, they are going to try!

[paul_le_snake]

sometimes when DEAD food is offered, the stomachs are split so that any gasses that accumilate will disperse without causing bloating. not really connected, just thought id add that.
as for mice coming back to life, sounds like the mealworm eating out from a lizard
cheers
paul

[Chris Steele]

Hey, Omen, you are smart...or seem to be. Have you ever heard of a baby bp doing this? Well I gave him a ft mouse and he struck it so i left...shouldn't have...then when I came back the mouse was somehow ripped to peices and there were guts all over the cage. Haha, I guess the snake had alot of compressed anger...lol, have any clue why he did that...or how?

[The_Omen]

sounds like the mealworm eating out from a lizard

I hear THAT one at least once a month!

Long time no see-um Paul!

[paul_le_snake]

its a great story though!!! ever seen a mealworm in water????? how about being chewed and living in the stomach acid of a lizard!

[Zoe]

lol paul... whenever someone asks me that i tell them to take the biggest, strongest meal worm they have. Then mush it with a spoon or something, then put it in a couple CMs of water. It won't be very alive. Now imagine that in STOMACH acid, in a small, enclosed, churning space.
I don't see that mealie chewing its way out any time soon.

I've also been told of baby lizards hatching inside the mothers' body and eating their way out.

Zoe

[The_Omen]

I have not seen any ripped up on purpose, but every now and then , with a f/t warmed too long, or at too high of a temp, they can and will 'pop' all over the place.

I had a boa pop a f/t on me a while back...it ended up sucking the innards down like spaghetti noodles then swallowing a folded rat.. really left an impression on me.
And my male retic has struck a fresh whacked rat hard enough to pop it (glad it's only every so often.. it stinks..)

[paul_le_snake]

yeah i agree about the over heating thing, sometimes time gets away from me and the next thing i know my gtp has squeezed the guts out of the hopper! very smelly indded

zoe, that one about the baby lizards is great!!!! :) ive seen grown adults ask if frozen rodents come back to life when they defrost, and me being me i ALWAYS say they do and they are really pissed right off!!!!
cheers
paul

[The_Omen]

I almost completely forgot all about......

Conas.. sorry about the loss.. :(

[Conas]

hehe thanx Omen :) i wasn't attached. I just hope the other 2 babies don't die. And i REALLY hope that the baby burm doesn't die too. I really think it's the prettiest burmese i've ever seen. After my experience with burms like i posted earlier in this thread, i had decided to never even look at a burm again. Then i saw this one, and i was in awe.

Thank yall for the interesting stories! I'm going to tell them to my girlfriend and try to pass them off as true 8)

[Stockwell]

The Omen has his stuff down... I've seen cases like this...What I believe actually happens is that when they bit themselves in akward positions, the teeth get stuck and they simply can't pull out.
This is what leads to eventual suffocation.
Snakes do some weird stuff. If you think this is weird I had my best breeder pyro(Arizona Mountain king) tie itself in a knot and die. Now who would ever think a snake could tie itself in a knot, but it happened!
I also know a guy that had a cal king eat a small branch,and pass it over a couple days...Then the thing shed after it's meal..must have been lots of calories in an old branch eh? LOL
Then of course the odd python eats light bulbs, hey they're warm right, and moving as they're falling..2 out of 3 strike trigger criteria is loads for most Sebaes burms and Retics.

[RaVeNo888o]

while on the topic of odd snake behaviour..i was feeding my cal king and after he got the head of the hopper down, he re-coiled around the rest of its body to crush it down a bit, he covered the whole body and then eventually covered his own head, so there he was squeezing and it looked like he was squeezing his own head lol..although he prolly wasnt.

[The_Omen]

Raven,
Many snakes will do that while swallowing.
What they are doing is helping give an extra push on the food to get it into their throats a little quicker and easier.
Watch them eat closely and you will see it done quite a few ways, such as pushing the food against their own body, a rock, the floor or ground, the wall of the tote etc..
They don't have the equipment like we do, such as arms, hands, forks and spoons, that actually get the food seated into our mouths (pie holes) for us.
So they use what they can if needed.

[RaVeNo888o]

ya, ive noticed that its really cool . I just though it was odd because he wrapped up way past his head. At first i thought that he was goin to pull the mouse out (it was the first feeding at this size) but im glad he downed it..he downed another one after that too so im happy

[Samba]

Well, this was definately an interesting thread. I heard a story awhile back about a Gaboon viper that had bit itself and died as a consequence. At the time, lay people believed that the snake succumbed to its own venom (!) when actually one of its very large fangs had penetrated a vital organ, causing death. Officals aren't sure why the snake bit itself, but they believe it was a result of stress, (this was a publicly displayed animal), or a feed-response. Either way, a very interesting story.

Conas - I know how it feels to feel hopeless. I am sorry the snake passed on, but good job in caring for the rest. Good Luck!