Switching substrates for Kenyans

[Invictus]

I'm getting a Kenyan sand boa tonight (yay!!!!) She's about 4 years old, and fully grown. She currently lives in sand, but I want to put her in Aspen shavings, because it's easier to clean, more ventilated, etc. But she's been in sand her whole life. Does anyone think this may cause some stress? Anyone ever tried this with a KSB before?

[Linds]

Aspen if far better than sand IMO. Sand is probably the worst substrate for causing impactions in reptiles. You shoudn't encounter any problems switching her over to aspen. Aspen shavings seem to work well with this species. I haven't used it, but Roy will be able to comment on it. From what I understand, BetaChip/AlphaChip is a really effective substrate for this species, much more than aspen shavings.

[BoidKeeper]

I use it with my pair but that's all they've ever been on. I don't think you'll have any problems. How were they being fed before? I remove mine and feed them in an opaque container with nothing in it.
Congrats sand boas rock!
Trevor

[Invictus]

I'm having problems with feeding, but I'll put that in another thread. I'm right pi$$ed about the way the sand boa was kept before.

[Stockwell]

The best substrate in my opinion is a small particulate wood substrate, and as Linds indicates
I like BETA CHIP or ALPHA CHIP. These are lab grade professionally prepared substrates available from feed mills, lab supply houses etc. The product(both) is made by
Nepco in NY. It comes in big bags and is cheap, about 10 bucks for enough to last you years.
The problem with Sand boas is that they often don't eat well unless they can ambush their prey from beneath the substrate. This obviosly means feeding them on the substrate, which in turn means they will ingest some. I have lost snakes to the ingestion of shredded aspen, and cyprus, as these materials often have long "tooth pic" type pieces and they end up in the snake, it's usually fatal.
I have kept and bred sand boas on Beta Chip since 1986 and have never lost one due to impaction from BETA CHIP.. They do of course swallow some, but it passes without complications.
Recently I am using another product by NEPCO called Alpha chip...It is similar in size but is pine instead of a blend of hardwoods. It's lighter in weight, which isn't really a plus, but I like that it doesn't cause the extreme staining of water bowls that the hardwood based "BETA" does.
ASPEN CHIP, is also made by NEPCO, but I can't get
it locally without bringing in a whole skid of it, but some Americans are using Aspen Chip with success.

If your snake will eat without being covered by substrate, then feed it in an empty tub, then you can use whatever substrate you want in its cage. This is fine if you only have one or two of them and you don't mind the shuffling around.
I have used sand years ago, and found it abraided the eye caps of sand boas, and while this was corrected with shedding, they always looked like their eyes were cloudy and scratched

Here's a link to NEPCO...Ren's Feeds in Oakville Ont. sells BETA and ALPHA chip...not sure who else across the country distributes it.
http://www.nep-co.com/labindex.html

[Ed_r]

Sand is no problem for sand boas. Only thing I do is keep them in sand and when feed time comes around, tap around f/t prey on the sand like its walking around. When the snakes show interest in the food get a small hook and remove them to a feed tote and feed them there.
Unless your not keeping up with the cleaning of the sand and its getting clumpy from moisture and urates, the sand boas can pass the sand particles. If yours are so picky they will only eat in the cage. I have also seen for the real picky ones to bounce the prey along the sand and place the f/t prey on a small plate or similar off of the sand, they will come out and get it.
I would much rather feed on sand with sand boas than cypress, or aspen. They are made to pass sand particles, not wood.

[Invictus]

First off, thank you Stockwell and Ed for the advice! It will all be taken under advisement.

The problem I'm having with the feeding is, the owner has fed it, yup you guessed it... LIVE prey her whole life. So here's what I did when I first got her home:

- I am using a 25 gal aquarium, but I only have the aspen on 3/4 of the tank, about 4 inches deep. It's very finely-shredded aspen and looks more like noodles than chips. I picked this type specifically because of the risk of ingestion, so it should be a bit safer.

- I've already tried what was suggested with feigning live mouse movements on top of her substrate. She definitely showed interest... then backed off.

- So, I put two adult mice (for extra smell) on a plastic plate in the non-covered area of the tank. Again, she showed interest... then backed off.

- So, I went back to mimicing the mouse movements. By now, she had all but given up.

So, any more suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated. I might try building her a feed box with sand, since that is what she's used to, but she seemed quite happy with the aspen.

[Ed_r]

How long have you had it/them? They could just be getting used to their surroundings. What are the temps at?

[Invictus]

I just got her Sunday night. (2 days ago.) I don't know the exact temps at the moment, but the area with the UTH is plenty hot. I decided to leave her alone last night, but I will try to feed her again tonight. I have a bet going with my friend (her sister is the previous owner) that I can switch her to killed prey. :)

[Stockwell]

I have a couple dozen and feed them all live food most of the time, although established adults will generally take dead wiggled from tongs .
Young ones especially need all the trigger criteria that live food offers..movment, heat and smell.
You should try to offer food near darkness with high temps near 90F
Feeding thawed frozen is usually possible but does take more work..too much for me, and thats why I prefer live prey..
make sure the feed is good and warm, and cut the nose off the mouse, as this gets more scent molecules airborn. You'll have to wiggle it around and carry on a bit
at first until the snake gets used to the routine

[Ed_r]

I wouldn't sweat it over only 2 days. Usually takes a week to get settled in. Yeah temps need to be high on these guys. I've heard up to 95 in the basking side.

[Invictus]

How do I stun a live mouse without killing it? I will try that before I cave in and give her live prey.

For the record, I tried again last night. I even put the Kenyan in a bucket with nothing but her and the mouse. She still would not take it. The best response I got from her was poking her nose out of the substrate for a little while, but she still wouldn't take the mouse. This is getting frustrating. I'll give her 2 more days and then try again, but she's going on 2 weeks without food now.

[Ed_r]

If it's an adult 2 weeks is no big deal. When i had to do it I would take the mouse by the tail and thump it on the back of the head pretty hard,this usually knocks them silly for a while. They do recover though so be aware of that.
Also don't whack the mouse too hard, once i knocked both it's eyes out of the sockets. And the mouse still lived for a long while.

[Invictus]

UPDATE!

Last night I got a dead mouse and dangled it for about half an hour in the substrate, and she finally struck it! She did the bite & coil, and I was ecstatic. Unfortunately, when she figured out it was already dead, she spit it out and wouldn't have anything more to do with it. :( But, it looks like progress is being made. At least this time she bit it. Hopefully she'll be hungry enough to try again tonight.

Haven't tried F/K yet, but that will be my next step.