Unknown Growth

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I got home today and watered my chams, left for 10 mins and checked to see if they were drinking. When I looked in my pigmy cage i say something horrible. My male pigmy bearded was drinking, but the whole side of his face is swolen. Under his eye, and lower under his jaw. The only thing i can think of is some kind of absess. His eye is open and he is having no problems with it. Could this be some kind of injury? no mucas he looks perfectly helthy other wise. It is hard for me to get a good look at their whole bodys everday Im hoping this has happened today but it may have been there over the last couple days. there is no discolouration and when i found him he was drinking. I dont think it is an absess because it is above and below his mouth.

Please help im going to hook up my web cam and try to get a desient shot but that may not work.

Im clueless please help!

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Ok here are some pic this is scaring me to death!
He is such a great little chameleon:confused:

http://www.u4iainteractive.com/cm/sick1.jpg

http://www.u4iainteractive.com/cm/sick2.jpg

http://www.u4iainteractive.com/cm/sick3.jpg

Some angels look worse than others. Hope these can give an idea !

[Trace]

Well that is odd! Is that bump hard or soft? It does look like some kind of infection or abcess?!?!

Now this is going to be REALLY hard to see on these little guys...but could he have any small bug parts lodged in the inside of his mouth? If I remember my chameleon anatomy correctly, they have small temporal glands at the corners of their mouths, could anything be stuck there to cause that swelling?

Just some random thoughts... keep me posted!

Trace

[dank7oo]

no clue what so ever .. but i really hope he is feeling better

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ill feell in the morning although it seemed to be soft and i will try and get him to open up too! Im soo woried he look soo sad dosent seem to be effecting him though ill let u know in the morning. Fingers crossed.

[Trace]

He does look sad... poor little fellow. :(

My fingers are crossed too, I hope he feels better in the morning. I'm looking forward to a progress report.

Trace

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Ill going to name him "Hunch Back" instead of pigmy guy.

[dank7oo]

hunch back? dont yo mean hunch face? - lol jkjkjk
hope he feels better ... i always wanted pygmys, but i dont trust online shopping, and the wack job at the pet store wanted 500$ for 1 leaf cham ... go figure
ill get em soon enough *kidnaps trace;s breadies ... that will teach her for threatening my dwarfs "(* LOL
good luck
Jason

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OK guys im very upset right now I have phoned some vets and am having major probems. I have found 2 that will look at chameleons but when they found out he was a pigmy bearded they said sorry their too smal to treat. Are they BSing me or... I dont know. Errr

Well update he is the same i thought the swelling went down but its the same. I did everything in my power to get his mouth open but he wont open it. I even tryed to make him mad but he is soo dosile he gust runs around on my finger. The swelling seems to be soft, Im having trouble bc he is soo tiny. And sugestions on how to get this guys mouth open?

Im very fusterated.

[Trace]

:eek: OK! I CAN'T beleive that a vet refuses to treat an animal that small! That just makes me mad! I spend quite a lot of time telling people that just because a reptile may have a cheap price tag, they ARE NOT disposable animals when they get sick. And here are vets that are saying something to the contrary. Yes, he is tiny, yes, it probably isn't worth having surgery done on these little guys, but I'm sure they could take an Xray to see what going on in his mouth! GRRR! :mad: I, fortunately, have a decent vet who would look at him.

Well I just spent the last 10 minutes trying to open one of my pygmy's mouths, and, yes, it's darned near impossible! Sheesh those guys are stubborn! Again, my trick is to cover their nostrils and they open up. There is no need to pinch his upper jaw and nostril area, just cover them with your fingers. If that doesn't work, you are going to have to give a gentle tug on his dewlap to open his mouth to look inside. This would be easier if you had two people... one to restrain him and one to open his mouth.

Good luck! Keep me posted!

Trace

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Know he is looking worse his eye is getting involved. I looked in his mouth all looks great as in no mucas or anything stuck in him. The inside of his mouth is swolen along the side where the swellong is. Soo now Im feeleing completely helpless. How do I know if he is in pain, the last day he has been in the back corrner, he usually is somewhere different every time i look in.What can I do Im soo sad. Is there anyway he has a disease, or he is imbread, I dont know I am soo lost. This swelling is bad.
Should I remove hi from the girls, stupid question ill do that now.

[Charm_Paradise]

Hi-

I don't have R. brevicaudatus but I do have R. uluguruensis. I don't know what you could do because your local vets don't want to have anything to do with him. Also being so small these guys are hard to work with. Just a thought do you have any wild bugs around there tank like spider, ants, bees, and so on. He may have tried to eat one of these bugs or got bit or stung at night while sleeping. When there is swelling in the head/eye area it usually means internal problems, or edema and chameleons are great at hiding there problems until it is to late. I wish you luck!

[reverendsterlin]

it also could be an abcess that could be drained

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Unless i can find a vet who will take him, I dont know what else to do. Poor guy soo sad.

[Reptayls]

Hi there,

I suspect this may be mouth-rot. It is not clear what causes this condition, but left untreated, it can spread into the jawbone and eventually cause death. In our experience - it is tricky to treat, and requires a vet, and is not always recovered from.

Other cham breeders that we have spoken to suspect it may be caused by an irritation of the gums (a bug bite could even do it) - which gets worse and forms a pocket of infection just below the skin. This gets worse and worse, and by the time we recognize it for what it is, it is almost too late.

We had this happen with 2 chams over the years, and we used chlorahexidrine flush to wash the mouth (using a q-tip) and administered baytril. The treatment was successful with one cham and not with another (resulted in death).

This proceedure may be extremely difficult to perform on a Brev... and would be very stressful in any event. If you had a magnifying lamp - it would make things a bit easier (couldn't live without ours). You would need two hands to tend to the tiny cham - as well as another hand to hold him still. To treat the mouth area, I use would use a q-tip to hold the mouth open - so as not to damage the tiny teeth. If you place the thick tip near the corner of the good side - this would prevent him from closing his mouth while you examine it and treat it.

Chlorahexidrine flush is available at any vet's office, and Baytril would be too - but the dosage for such a tiny cham would be tricky. The best thing would be to mix the Baytril with Karo syrup until it is weak enough to administer one drop. Most any vet can do this for you. Sometimes they can make a Baytril topical treatment too.

If the abcess cannot be drained (if needed), and cannot be treated, it will most likely be fatal. If the cham cannot eat or drink - it will surely perish, and this kind of mouth condition is painful if severe. If you can see a discoloration along the gum line on that side of his mouth - there is a good chance that this is what it is. The color would be dark gold or a greenish. Otherwise it might be the gland in the corner of the mouth that is infected - so compare both sides.

Inbreeding has little chance of being the culprit. Sometimes things just happen - like a tooth abcess on a person.

Sorry for your troubles, hope this information helps.
Morgana - Reptayls, Ltd.

[reptiledude21]

hey, this happened to my friends tokay. what happened was he said a cricket bit its eye. it went down eventually and was okay but i dont know if that is the same thing with yours. it sounds and looks the same though. what do u feed yours?

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Thanks for all your help guys it seems the only thing i can do now is try to get a vet err this is the downfall of the chameleon! Bad things always seem to happen over hollidays. Im not ruleing out mouth rot but i see no discoularation the two sides look identical other than one is swollen. My only hope now is too find a vet in time. Crossing my fingers! Wish me luck! Thanks again everyone ill keep u posted

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the onlu thing they eat right now are 1/4 sized crix I have some Silks that I hatched so Im gonna see if they will eat those. There are some fruit flys which i have seen them eat as well but not many at all.

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K well Iv been up all morning trying to find a vet I might be going to the one i had a bad experience with mabey it eill be better!

I opened his mouth today again same nothin funny. I allso fed him some baby silks just incase he is not eating, I know he is drinking so thats it for today hopfully i see a vet some time this afternoon. Ill keep u guys posted.

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OK well Im mad now I have been on the phone all day and no one will see him two of the vets who see reptiles are on hollidays. OMG I dont know what too say too mad.........

[Trace]

Tomorrow is another day and hopefully he will be feeling a bit better. I'm rooting for your Brev and little Duke from the "syringe feeding" thread.

Keep us all posted.

Trace

[J-Man]

hey collide

any updates? I'm really curious as to what it is and if he's doing ok.

Jeremy

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Well I went to the show this morning with the little guy. Trace was gonna give me some baytril and look at him for me. But the little guy died on the way to the show. His infection had gon too far. Im really sad I thought he would be fine because he had eatin 5 silks on his own the day b4. Well he is in peace now and im hoping the 2 females can help him live on. Fingers crossed!
Well thanks for you help.
FYI: it was a infection and I think all he needed was baytril.
If Trace wants to add anything she can she saw him!
Well thanks again! Really mad about the situaltion with the vets because all this might have been prevented.

[Trace]

Sorry for my delayed reply, I've been terribly busy since the show.

I really don't know if I can add much here, beyond offering my deepest condolences to you again. He was a sweet little guy, and I know you did everything you could to help him. Maybe your females are gravid and his legacy will live on in some small way.

Good luck, keep in touch.

Trace