View Full Version : Syringe Feeding - Getting Veiled's Mouth Open
Hi,
Some of you might know about me force feeding my roughly 3 mo. old male veiled smahes bananas with a syringe... I was succesfull in doing so the first time by making him mad and so he hissed at me and then I squirted some of the mashed bananas in and he started to enjoy it.
Well today I tried and he wasn't as excited about it. I couldn't get him to open his mouth (nothing was pissing him off, which kind of scared me because I heard male veileds were supposed to have an attitude)
I had to end up holding his casque and pulling the skin on his neck to open his mouth... this didn't SEEM painful, just annoying.
Can anybody please tell me if this is harmful to the cham and also, are there any ways to get him to open his mouth for feeding? Any help is very much appreciated!
Hi,
I've had luck hand-watering a rescue by just letting water drops drip down the crack of her mouth... eventually she opened her mouth to lick it off, and now drinks well from a syringe.
Also, I suggest you ad some mashed wax/silk worms to the bananas... it'll ad some protein :) And if you mix in some water it'll help hydrate him and make the stuff moe liquidy.
Zoe
Morning J-Man! :D
I do a lot of rescue work with chameleons and I've done enough force feeding to last me a lifetime! It doesn't get any easier either! The way you are doing it is fine, you aren't really going to hurt him, just, as you say, annoy him more than anything. What I do is place my fingers over their nostrils and generally they will open their mouths immediately. You don't need to pinch the top of their jaw doing this, just cover the nostrils. Another trick is to touch the top of their heads above the eyes and sometimes they will open up right away. I will try both of those tricks first before resorting to pulling at their dewlaps, as I find they are less painful in a way. Remember patience is the key when dealing with a non-eating chameleon. Sometimes I've had to walk away for 20 minutes and let the little buggers calm down and then try again.
As for the bananas... they are very high in phosphorous which isn't good for chameleons. For some of the VERY sick chameleons that are dropped here I use this "bug juice" for force feeding:
Crushed or blended insects
Add only enough of the below ingredients to liquefy the crushed insects enough to draw into a syringe:
Ensure Plus
Pedialyte
Raw egg yolk
Refrigerate remaining bug juice. Discard if not used within two days.
It's really disgusting to make, but it's nutritionally complete for rehabilitating sickly chameleons. I also have a big bucket of Emeraid Nutri-Support that I use as well. It is only available through your veterinarian (at least in Canada anyways) and is long-term nutritional powdered food for reptiles.
Hopefully your little guy will come around. Has he opened his eyes yet? Keep me posted on his progress.
Cheers!
Trace
Thanks again for your help.
I didn't realize bananas would be bad for him... though he's not sick at all, I'm just feeding him like that since he can't feed himself.
If I don't have the ingredients for that bug juice, is it ok to just use any of the ingredients? Also, how exactly do you make it? put a bunch of crickets in a bowl with ensure plus, pedalyte and egg yolk and smash it up with a spoon? or a blender? And should I use dusted/gut loaded crickets?
He opens his eyes occasionally (usually when I'm feeding him... I don't know if that's because he's scared and wants to see who's around or what).
I really appreciate all this help, I know that when (hopefully not "if") he makes it, it'll be because of you and these forums.
Hey Hey!
I didn't realize bananas would be bad for him... though he's not sick at all, I'm just feeding him like that since he can't feed himself.
It's a good idea to feed him like you are doing, as he can't quite see his food yet! Besides, any food you can get into his tummy will make him stronger for you.
If I don't have the ingredients for that bug juice, is it ok to just use any of the ingredients? Also, how exactly do you make it? put a bunch of crickets in a bowl with ensure plus, pedialyte and egg yolk and smash it up with a spoon? or a blender? And should I use dusted/gut loaded crickets?
As for the ingredients... Ensure Plus is one of those breakfast drink thingies. It may be called something else in the US? It's chock full of vitamins and minerals which is good. A can of it costs about a dollar or two here. The pedialyte is a baby drink which has got electrolytes in it, which is good for keeping the chameleon hydrated. Unfortunately this one is expensive... like $10.00 or so for a jar. You can buy both at your local drug store or grocery store. Try to find all of the ingredients if you can.
What I do is put the bugs in a bowl and squish them up with the back of a spoon! GROSS! I find waxworms, silkies, freshly shed mealies etc to be a bit easier to liquify. I also don't make a big pile at a time because it doesn't really keep all that long. I start with maybe 24 or 36 bugs or so. Once I have a good paste going I add the rest of the ingredients a little at a time, like a teaspoon of each until I get the right consistency to be able to draw it into a syringe. I don't dust the bugs before I make this recipe, but all of my bugs are gutloaded here to begin with.
Hope this helps! Have you talked with a vet yet?
Cheers!
Trace
Ok, I thought that's what ensure was. I'll try that. Though I'm not having much luck getting him to eat... I just can't get his mouth open! I tried covering his nostrils and he just sits there for a few seconds then he pulls back and pushes me off of him. I also tried holding his casque and pulling on his neck like I did before but it feels so much like I'm going to rip it and it scares me. I think if I could just find a consistent way to get him to eat with the syringe everything would be ok.
I haven't found a vet who deals with chameleons, or herps much at all for that matter. I'm still looking though.
I'm beginning to get very worried. He's not active inside his cage much at all. I don't see him moving around the cage very often and I hear stories about other people's chams (though they're adult chams) that are always climbing all around and they have stories about things they do and it doesn't seem Duke is like that.
I think I'm just gonna have to keep trying to feed him like this. His eyes were a little open today, which is a good sign so this might be working.
I'm really sorry about the long posts... as you can probably tell I'm a little frantic. Thanks for helping me out with this.
Hey again!
Don't worry about the long posts, the more information you can supply me and the other cham gurus around here with the better!
Click here (http://www.anapsid.org/vets/penn.html) for a listing of reptile veterinarians in PA. Hopefully some are close to you, and certainly it is worth a few phone calls around to ask a few questions. I'm not saying I don't want to help, but it is hard to give good advice without seeing your little woggley eyed man.
I'm happy to hear the food is helping somewhat! I know I get slow and sluggish when I haven't eaten. Keep the force feeding up... it's hard... but be persistent! Sometimes you do need to use a bit of strength to open their mouths. Do you have a friend that could help you out? One to hold Duke while you put the food in?
As for active chameleons, I've got some that are content to sit in one spot all day while others are on the move from the minute they get up in the morning until the minute they go to bed at night. If I could only have that much energy! LOL!
Good luck... and keep me informed of his progress.
Trace
Good afternoon, Trace
Yeah, I have my girlfriend put the food in with the syringe while I hold his mouth open. I would have no problem using strength with him except that it feels like I'm going to rip his skin? Do you think it's possible that I could do that?
Thanks for the vets... one of them was located in pittsburgh which is where I live.
I will definitely keep you posted on his progress.
Good good! I'm glad to hear you've got help! I'm by myself most of the time when I've got to force feed a reptile and a third arm would really come in handy sometimes.
I suppose if you pulled hard enough, you could rip his skin, anything is possible right? In all the times I've ever had to pull on a dewlap I've never broken or torn the skin. You may find he gets a slight bruise at that area, but it will go away within a day or two. Don't give it a hard yank, but a strong, slow pull. Don't be afraid... you can do it!
I have dug out some of my chameleon medical books for you, and most of the information I'm getting is that he my have an eye infection. In most of those cases the eyes are sunken and the lids are fused shut which doesn't jive with your info, so I suspect it's something else in your case. I'll still keep digging up info for you.
I'm rootin' for Duke! I'd love to see a pic when you've got a chance!
Trace
Hey Trace!
Sorry I'm so late... I was kind of dragged to my grandma's... long story.
Thank you so much for all your help... you really don't have to go looking stuff up for me though.
Yeah that doesn't really seem to be the problem because he does open his eyes sometimes.
I thought that might be a bruise :) I couldn't tell. I definitely don't yank on his dewlap. Like you said, a strong, slow pull... I mean he'd probably sooner open his mouth then let his skin get ripped.
Again, sorry for the late post and thanks for your help!
Jeremy
Hey Hey :D
Honestly I've been wondering what's up with little Duke all weekend but I understand that family obligations do come first though.
Again, I don't mind to answer your questions and I'll try to help in anyway I can. Try and borrow your brothers digicam and post some pics for me, I wanna see your handsome woggley eyed man.
Still rootin' for Duke!
Trace
Hi Trace
Problem with the cam is he doesn't have the cord for it so he can't transfer the pics that I already took onto the computer.
I have another question. About how much should I feed him per sitting? I'm having trouble with this whole thing so I'm lucky to get one big mouth full (truly a mouth FULL though). Should I just feed him as much as I can and hope he starts taking to it better?
Thanks,
Jeremy
Hi Jeremy! :D
Problem with the cam is he doesn't have the cord for it so he can't transfer the pics that I already took onto the computer.
DANG!
Should I just feed him as much as I can and hope he starts taking to it better?
He probably won't "take" to it any better unfortunately. Chameleons are probably even more stubborn than I am! TeeHee! Feed him as much as he will take at one sitting, there is no point in stressing him out further. What I do with some of the rescues I get is force feed them 3 or 4 times a day. I find this to be a little less traumatic for them than one big session. I find I can only get maybe 1cc (1ml) into them at a go.
Hope this helps! Go Duke!
Trace
Hey Trace!
Sorry for not replying sooner... for some reason I thought I was waiting for a reply from you and so I just kept checking my e-mail to see if I had an e-mail notice of a new post.
I re-arranged Duke's cage last night... it's not so centralized now... I took out the tall palm in the middle and I just have a bunch of little "chameleon highways" sorta... he seems to like it a lot more. He's more active and today I saw him with his eye open looking around.
I fed him a lot yesterday, 3 sittings and 4 mouth fulls. By the end he seemed to realize that when I pull on his dewlap it means food because it was much easier the last couple times. I also watered him a lot yesterday... something like 2 full 32 oz. spray bottles were emptied on him... and another 1 1/2 today. So I'm thinking the watering and the feeding helped him a lot.
Still waiting for the cord for his cam! Can't wait to show you him and his home :)
Jeremy
Hi Jeremy! :D
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
Well it does sound like he's getting better! YAY! Active and looking around is good and I hope he continues to improve for you. Unfortunately you may have to keep up the force feedings for a bit longer until he is feeling 100%. That "bug juice" recipe is real fun to make eh! Ewwwww.
Maybe in a couple of days, throw a few crickets into his cage, I'd be curious to see if he eats on his own. If he doesn't eat them, take the crix out of the enclosure as you don't want the bugs to annoy him.
Has he pooped for you yet? I'd be curious to see if those are normal or not too.
Keep up the good work! :thumbsup: This is great news! I'm still stumped as to what his problem is, but as long as he's getting stronger, that's all that matters!
GO DUKE!
Trace
Hi Trace
I'm picking up the ingredients for the bug juice today.
I'm going to continue to syringe feed him for a little while, liek you said.
Yeah he pooped... it's not very normal... it's mushier (don't worry I didn't touch it... I can see it... though I did clean it out) I think it's because all he's been eating is mushed banana.
I'll let you know on the progress. Let me get this straight though.... a few crickets, pedialyte and ensure? if you say so...
Jeremy
Hey again
Picked up that stuff. I had no mealworms though and I tried smashing up crickets but as you said they don't smash well and so my mix was pretty much ensure + pedialyte + egg yolk with circket peices floating in it. I tried sucking up as much cricket as possible but wasn't very succesfull at all. so I hope it's not bad for him if I don't have the crickets in there! even though I'm sure I got some cricket guts in. From now on I'm using mealworms though. Anyhoo, please let me know if I shouldn't be using what this stuff without crickets or mealworms in it.
As always, your help is very much appreciated!
P.S. I was looking at your pictures, is one of your male veileds missing his casque??? I thought it was a panther or something at first lol
Jeremy
Hey Hey :D
Anyhoo, please let me know if I shouldn't be using what this stuff without crickets or mealworms in it.
I'm sure you got enough "guts" in there to make it worthwhile! Each time I make the bug juice it's turns out differently anyways. The crickets are essentially protein, and the Ensure Plus has got lots of that in it. Mealworms are definately better, as I find they don't move around as much when you try and squish them. You could also try waxworms and silkworms as they don't have that hard exoskeleton. A bit more expensive, but you loose that creepy "crunch" factor in the preparation! LOL!
I was looking at your pictures, is one of your male veileds missing his casque??? I thought it was a panther or something at first lol
LOL! That's my Bacchanal! He was my first rescued chameleon and by far my absolute favorite guy. He came to me about 4 years ago with terrible burns on his casque, shoulders and spines. After much topical and oral antibiotics (and force feeding) he came around, but eventually he sloughed his casque. So that's his sad story in a nutshell. Despite all of his past traumas, he was the FRIENDLIEST little guy and loved nothing more than to sit on my shoulder all day. I don't know, some of these chameleons just seem to know when you are trying to help them. Unfortunately I lost him a few weeks ago and that was very hard on me. He is sorely missed around here.
Anywho.... GO DUKE!
Trace
I'm sorry to hear about your loss. Was he sick?
Thankfully I was able to feed Duke a lot today! I have a new method. Since nobody really ever feels like helping me feed him, I hold his dewlap with oen hand and the syringe with the other... since I'm holding him by the dewlap he struggles a little and opens his mouth (sometimes I have to coax [spelling] it open with the syringe but it always works) and so I squirt some in like that... then he sits there with his head in the air, swallowing it.
Well, as always I'll keep you posted.
Morning Jeremy! :D
Thankfully I was able to feed Duke a lot today! I have a new method. Since nobody really ever feels like helping me feed him
Good!!! :thumbsup: Sounds like you are learning some tricks on how to force feed by yourself. I have the same problem here, most people think I'm crazy for trying to rehab as many as I do, but if I think they have a chance at life, I'm going to do it. Sometimes that means force feeding, giving enemas, etc etc by myself.
I apologise too, I didn't address the poop issue in my post last night. Yes, they will be a bit loose while you are giving the bug juice. As long as it's not diarrhea, you'll be ok.
I'm sorry to hear about your loss. Was he sick?
He died of old age. He didn't live out to his full lifespan of 5 years, but I didn't think he would considering all of the health problems he had at such a young age. The few weeks before he passed on, he slowed down considerably, and was just content to sit in my sunny window watching the world go by. He wasn't in pain, he died in his sleep one night and I was there with him at the end. I do have 40 Veiled eggs that I'm incubating and he is the daddy, so his legacy lives on in some small way.
I do like these updates you give me. Go Duke!
Trace
icequeen
07-02-03, 09:44 AM
I have a chameleon that has not eaten on his own since March.
I started out force feeding him bug juice, then whole crickets and mealies...now I just feed him repta-aide, by fluker farms.
When I was feeding him bug juice, I used pedialyte mixed with pureed chicken baby food, as well as a little calcium, and either crickets or mealies in with it.
(is it okay for chams to have ensure? Isn't it dairy based? I would think that would be hard on their gut...but that's just my assumption...certainly not based on any knowledge of it!)
I went to Zellers (don't know where you live, but it's like a walmart if you're in the U.S) and bought myself a "mini-chopper" it's a small electric food processor. It only cost me 14 dollars!! I have used it SOOOO many times since (just for lizard care). It was well worth the little amount of money it cost me.
If you go that route though, make sure you push down rather hard on the lid, as the liquid will leak out around the top.
To make it easy to suck up into the syringe, I strained the bug juice through cheese cloth folded over on itself one time, so it keeps out the big chunks.
I have not read this entire thread....but I'm glad the days of stinking bug juice are over for us. I'll stick with the repta-aide from now on. And my cham likes it MUCH better than he ever liked bug juice.
Good luck to you and your cham!
Kim
icequeen
07-02-03, 09:57 AM
oh, and by the way, I get my cham to open his mouth by just very very gently applying constant steady pressure with my fingers right at the hinge of his mouth, with the width of my fingers (index and and thumb) mostly on his lips.
There is no pulling or force involved, it just seems to trigger the response of him opening his mouth when I do it.
Maybe Zoe is just used to our routine now, and he knows that my fingers near his mouth means food.
When I was feeding him bug juice, it was a CONSTANT wrestling match. Now with repta-aide, he doesn't fight at all.
Afternoon Trace and Icequeen
Chameleon enemas eh? Not my choice hobby. No need to apologize for not adressing the poop issue, I had pretty much assumed it was normal.
What about that ensure issue queen raised? Do you think it might be bad for them?
And another question, I'm wondering if I'm over-feeding him... I fed him TONS today. I figured he'd stop taking it if it got to be too much but he never did, I ended up feeding him 10 1/2 ml, the whole friggin! He didn't seem to be regurgatating it at all and he didn't seem to have any trouble swallowing it so I assumed everything was fine.
IceQueen, thanks for the advice, I might give that repta-aide a try... though I don't mind making the bug juice now. Whatever helps him, ya know. Why did your cham stop eating?
Jeremy
icequeen
07-02-03, 12:28 PM
Well he came down with two back to back upper respiratory infections, and became severely dehydrated as well. He was too weak to eat or drink.
He had (almost) been abandoned by his previous owner, and he was not really well cared for when I got him. He was in a 30 gallon aquarium, had a reptisun 2 as his only uv source...and the light was already almost two years old when he came to me.
They only fed him 6 crickets every other day, and would just give a "squirt of water whenever we think about it"
I spent HUNDREDS of dollars on vet care, medications, and upgrading his living conditions.
Anyway...the second URI really took it's toll on him, and he lost his ability to shoot his tongue during that illness. He has since regained the use of his tongue (I've seen him catch houseflies) but he chooses not to use it.
I don't know if he's lazy, or spoiled, or if he likes the taste of the repta-aide or what....but he makes NO effort whatsoever to eat crickets, mealies, or waxworms. (He HATES waxworms...he spits them out as quickly as I can get them in!)
One friend said to me: He's just like any other man...if he can sit around and have a woman serve him...he will....he's not stupid.
Holy Moly am I behind on this thread now! LOL!
Actually I'm glad Kim has jumped in here! I've followed her trials with her chameleon on some other forums that we both belong to, and she has great ideas and tricks as well!
Chameleon enemas eh? Not my choice hobby.
Mine neither! :/ But it had to be done! This little female Veiled came to me constipated and with a broken leg. She is now passing stools on a daily basis and is doing very well. She is still in a cast and has to wear that for another 4 weeks yet. She is a little trooper and one of the most good natured females I've ever met. I should post a pic of her someday.
What about that ensure issue queen raised? Do you think it might be bad for them?
Now I have not had a problem with the bug juice formula in the years I've had to use it. The first ingredient is water so a lot of that is going to absorbed. I like it because of the many vitamins and minerals that it contains. I recently started using that Emeraid Nutri-Support stuff that I mentioned at the beginning of this thread, as it's much easier to mix up. No more bug juice for me either! To take up a contrary position, I don't like the Repti-Aide stuff (no offense Kim!). I guess I'm hesitant about pre-packaged over-the-counter meds and foods for reptiles. I know we have made great strides in the last few years with our knowledge about reptile husbandry but I just don't trust them for some reason. That being said, the bug juice has worked for me and the Repti-Aide is working for Kim... so who is right?
I'm wondering if I'm over-feeding him... I fed him TONS today. I figured he'd stop taking it if it got to be too much but he never did
My attitude towards this is: Let them eat! If they want to eat buckets of Bug Juice a day, then they can go right ahead! I'll sit there! They will stop when they are full!
One friend said to me: He's just like any other man...if he can sit around and have a woman serve him...he will....he's not stupid.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! My chameleons act stoopid most of the time, but, yes, they've got me trained to do anything they want! Little Buggers!
Cheers!
Trace
Hey Trace!
I'm glad to hear I can feed him as much as he will take. :D
I don't know if there's anything else to say! I guess I should just keep on feeding him until he gets better. Unless you, queen have any ideas about why my cham's eyes are closed? I know you didn't have time or patience :) to read this whole thread... but, as I've told trace, he keeps both of his eyes closed almost all of the time. He looks perfectly healthy, he has no crust around his eyes or anything, no swelling... he sometimes has one eye open (which makes me happy when he does). Have you ever experienced this before?
Thanks for all of both of your help! It's been very....helpful (trace, you should appreciate that.. being a monty python fan)
Jeremy
Just to get slightly off-topic! You must be a Monty Python fan too!
It's been very....helpful (trace, you should appreciate that.. being a monty python fan)
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Tim the enchanter scene! I know that movie verbatim! Now I have to go and watch it! LOL!
There are some who call me... 'Trace'?
Back to the regularly scheduled thread...
verbatim eh? Well isn't it "There are THOSE who call me... 'tim'?" I could very easily be wrong...
icequeen
07-02-03, 05:23 PM
I too am concerned about the long term use of repta-aide.
I mean it really is for rehabilatation, so, I don't know if it is actually healthy for day to day, long term use.
Perhaps it is LOADED with certain things and lacking in others, that over time will cause harm all on it's own.
I just keep offering him bugs, in hopes the he will take interest. He just never does.
I'm going to contact my vet though, and ask about the Emeraid Nutri-Support you mentioned. If nothing else, I'd like to buy a bigger container of meal replacement, than these little 50 grams bags, for 13 dollars a pop.
Trace, I didn't know you read KS...do you post there as well?
I find THIS forum more "homey", since there is a higher number of Canadians that post on here....so much of the info is relevant to me....cost comparisons, supply availibilty etc.
J-man...about your cham keeping his eyes closed....for the most part, the general concesus is that it indicates illness. Dr. Ivan has made a couple posts on his site, talking about how certain tumours will cause a cham to close it's eyes...but usually only one eye, and you most likely would see evidence of a mass, especially on a young cham.
With Zoe, he NEVER would fall asleep during the day...but he would be harder than heck to wake up in the morning, when he was sick. We actually had to reach in and move him to wake him up, otherwise he would not open his eyes.
Now that he's better, and I've moved him into a MUCH bigger cage...I noticed him do something that scared the crap out of me!
When he would get too warm, he would go a little lower in his cage...under a big over hang of a scheflerra branch...it was cooler and considerably darker under there...and the little buggar would go to sleep!!! I think the drop in temps, and the drop in light levels made him think that it was time for bed!
I've since changed the position of the tree, so that it doesn't hang over his resting spot like that, and now he doesn't fall asleep during the day anymore. That was just a couple weeks ago that this took place...and he appears to be as healthy as he had been since recovering from his URI.
I was worried it was an ominous sign, but I think it was just a situational thing.
I don't know what your set up is, but perhaps something similar is happening with your guy.
WHEW! that was a lonnnnnng one.....sorry about that!
icequeen
07-02-03, 05:26 PM
oh, and by the way...
I was thinking about the whole dairy product thing this afternoon.
I remember giving Zoe plain yoghurt with live bacterial cultures to get his gut bacteria back to normal, after a longish run of antibiotics.
That's a dairy product too and it didnt' have any ill effect.
I guess I was just thinking about how they tell parents not to give thier kids dairy products when the are vomiting, or have diarrhea....which is not the situation with your fellow.
Hi Ice
Thankfully, like I said I can see no difference in the eyes... they're just closed. As for the cage, his cage set-up was a bit iffy a day or 2 ago... there weren't a whole lot of intersecting "highways" so to speak... it was very centralized. So I re-arranged it and now it was very dispersed and has lots of "highways."
I can't really be sure if he falls asleep or not because his eyes are always closed but it certainly does seem like it sometimes. As I told Trace before, he's really not that active... which kind of worries me.
Thanks
Jeremy
By the way, don't worry about the long posts.... I really don't mind at all.
Update:
Good news. Duke is looking very plump (thanks to his 10 1/2 ml or whatever of that "bug" mix). He's looking perfectly colored, a very beautiful green and it looks like he's starting to show his colors, tan stripes and maybe a hint of yellow. Also, I went up to water him and he had one eye open. I watered him and he closed it (naturally) and I stopped and he opened it... so I watered some more (lots) and after I was done he opened one eye and had the other open a little bit... which is the first time he's had his left eye open at all in a long time.
I don't think I've stressed just how much he ate... he's only a little under 4 in. nose to vent (butt?) and he ate a syringe full worth of that crap... that thing's longer than him!!!
I'll keep you posted with any more news... I'm sure I'll have something tomorrow.
Oh geez, I'm behind on this thread again! So I'm going to answer everyones comments at once! Hopefully this won't get too confusing!
verbatim eh? Well isn't it "There are THOSE who call me... 'tim'?" I could very easily be wrong...
HAHAHAHA! You could be right as well... I have not had access to the TV tonight, so I was unable to watch the movie. I'm stuck at home tomorrow waiting for my shipment of bugs, so I'll try and pop it in, if the roomies aren't around. BTW, I've been laughing at your joke ALL day! Thanks! :D
I'm going to contact my vet though, and ask about the Emeraid Nutri-Support you mentioned. If nothing else, I'd like to buy a bigger container of meal replacement, than these little 50 grams bags, for 13 dollars a pop.
That Emeraid powder is similar to the Repti-Aide stuff that you are using. It is meant for long term nutritional support for ailing birds and reptiles. It's high in Vitamin A, proteins and carbohydrates and low in fat. This is not something I would use permanently, but can be used long-term. If you are asking your vet, it used to be called Emeraid II and it cost me about $30.00 CAD for a 396g container. I think there is smaller containers available as well?
I too am concerned about the long term use of repta-aide.
What are you going to do though? He won't eat on his own, so he needs the nutrition somehow. What is the lesser of two evils... a slowly starving chameleon or one who is leading a fairly normal life on the Repti-Aide? I don't think I've mentioned it elsewhere, but kudos to you for taking that guy in and spending so much time, energy and money bringing him back to health.
Trace, I didn't know you read KS...do you post there as well?
Never! I've read your trials on the Chameleonresearch forums. Now there is board that I hope gets a little more active in the future as there is some interesting members there. I agree this place is a bit more "family feeling" than other lists I belong to.
And finally Jeremy...
Good news. Duke is looking very plump (thanks to his 10 1/2 ml or whatever of that "bug" mix).
LOL! I bet he'll give you a nice big poop tomorrow! Here's a crazy question... has he ever been dewormed? I doubt that's his problem, but, hey, it's worth asking. Again I'm stumped as to what his problem is, but I'm sssoooo happy to hear that he is taking the food (and so much of it!) so well and seems to be a bit perkier.
Thanks to the two of you for making this thread so interesting.
Go Duke!
There are some (those?) who call me... Trace
Trace,
Gee I can't wait to wake up and find a little present for me!
He's never been dewormed that I know of, I bought him when he was about 1 month old from lllreptile.com. I haven't noticed anything that looks like a worm in his stomach (you should be able to see it, right?) His stomach is perfectly smooth as far as I can tell.
Don't worry about getting behind... almost all of my questions have been answered so you have no duties ;)
Thanks,
J-Man Jeremy
Hey Hey J-Man!
I haven't noticed anything that looks like a worm in his stomach (you should be able to see it, right?) His stomach is perfectly smooth as far as I can tell.
Yes and no. The worms you are referring to are subcutaneous nematodes that live beneath the skin and you can see those. I don't think you are going to see those kinds of parasites in captive bred chameleons like yours. Chameleons can be infested with things like pinworms, roundworms and even tapeworms though. Most of those buggers are microscopic and live in the intestines of animals, so you won't be able to see them. Basically they attach themselves to the linings of internal organs and suck the blood. Too many of these types of parasites can weaken an animal to the point of death.
Bring a fresh poop to the vet and they can run tests to see if little Duke has got any of these parasites. If he does, there are very safe medications you can use to rid him of these things.
Don't worry about getting behind... almost all of my questions have been answered so you have no duties
If that's the case... then I'm off to bed! LOL!
Go Duke!
There are some who call me... Trace <-- I'm beginning to like that sig!
icequeen
07-03-03, 05:59 AM
This is my baby....Zoe
http://ssnakess.com/photopost/data/502/1944outdoorzoe.jpg
and this is his home...
http://ssnakess.com/photopost/data/502/1944cage_detail-med.jpg
:eek: Kim, I've never seen pics of your little Zoe and I wasn't sure what to expect from him because of all of his health problems. All I can say is, he looks FANTASTIC! His colours are bright, his eyes are nice and bulgey and he isn't skinny in the least. WOWSERS!
Your dedication to him as paid off. I know he is still a handful for you, but you've given him another chance at a decent life. Good work!
Feel like building me some cages? LOL! Zoe certainly is spoiled living in a palace like that!
Trace
Collide
07-03-03, 03:27 PM
Yea that cage is a bueaty I might steal some of your ideas! LOL
And Zoe is one sexy Chameleon!
Wow Ice!
Beautiful cham and even more beautiful cage!
Trace
Can any vet do those tests? even if they don't specialize in chams?
Also, in his bad eye (or worse eye for that matter), his left, I saw an odd bulge sorta. It's the same bulge I've seen in both the male and female.. it happens when I water them, like water gets inside their eye. It seems to correlate with their breathing... like it gets bigger then smaller, bigger then smaller. This happened with both my male and female so I doubt it's a problem because what are the odd of that...?
Jeremy
By the way, I like that sig too
Hi Jeremy! :)
Can any vet do those tests? even if they don't specialize in chams?
I prefer to use a reptile vet for all things medical and I'm lucky that I've got one really close to me, but ANY vet can run tests on a fecal sample. Worms are worms. Problem is, some vets may want to see your chameleon before running the tests, so it might be worth looking for a proper herp vet in Pittsburgh. Some don't.
As for the eye thing on your pair... it does sound like they just got water underneath their eyelids when you sprayed them and they are just trying to get it out. Exactly... what are the odds of both of them doing it!
How is Duke today?
There are some who call me... Trace <--- I'm going with it!
Duke's doing pretty good... a little more active (expecially while I'm watering him). Surprisingly I haven't found any poop yet... I tried feeding him again today but I think he's a little bloated from yesterday's feast! I fed him a little and gave up. I'll probably feed him significantly again tomorrow. He was LOOKING very good today, showing perfect colors as usual. Well, I'm gonna go check f or poop and water the hell out of him again.
Jeremy
P.S. I wish I could leave more..... dramatically, it would better fit my..... idium. Ok, that was sad, I couldn't really fit it into a sentence that would suit me very well...
NI!
I want a shrubbery... you must return here with a shrubbery, or else, you will never pass through this thread... alive!
Oh dear... look what you've started! LOL!
That's great news! Remember you are giving him a fairly liquid diet at the moment, so it may be a few days before something solid comes out the back end.
Go Duke!
There are some who call me... Trace
Well Trace, IT would be very hard to find a shrubbery in such a thread. You better believe IT when I say that IT is practically impossible and IT is very unlikely I will return with a shrubbery.
My mom likes that movie a lot too... when she had AOL she made it say "*THWONG* Message for you sir" whenever she got e-mail.
J-meister
Here's another update:
Duke's doing about the same, I got some wax/meal worms today and made some more bug juice for him... he ate a few cc's. I also tried opening his mouth and having my girlfriend put a wax worm in but he seemingly spit it out. He's still not very active, which worries me. I had him out today for his feeding and I was watering him directly and I put him on a cord so he could climb (he was getting bored of my hands and kept coming close to falling off) and he climbed up and just sat there so I let him go as I checked my e-mail and stuff like that (don't worry he was right next to the computer) I look over and I saw him poop. It was mushy again but the right coloring this time (last time it was all brown). He opened his eye for a little while today, but only one. I have a question, can he eat with only one eye open? I mean eat with his tongue, not by syringe.
I think that's about it! Thanks for all your help.
Jeremy - The Knight who says Icky-Icky-Zaboo-Bating-Voom-Hausen
icequeen
07-04-03, 03:53 PM
Trace and Jeremy...thank you for the compliments on Zoe, and his enclosure.
He is a lot of work...but, if I don't feed him...who else will. It's only an extra few minutes out of my day among all the other things I do. Besides...how many people get to hold a lizard in their lap and baby talk to it on a daily basis!
Jeremy...what did the waxies come in? Did they come in some sort of wood shavings? I wondered if that left a bad taste on them, as Zoe won't eat them either. I also noticed that it was nearly impossible to get all the tiny bits of wood or whatever that was off of them!
It can't possibly taste good...or be good for them to eat.
(By the, on another note...I posted a picture of my Corucia Zebrata in the general lizard forum, if you'd like to get a peek at Dill.)
Don't give up on Duke...I've read about people having to force feed their cham for months, then all of sudden they start eating on thier own. I'm still hoping Zoe will too!
Kim
I saw your picture... what is that? an Iguana?
I'm definitely not giving up on him... I think it might be a lighting problem. I mean all the symptoms seem to be loss of sleep... except for the fact that sometimes he'll open one eye but not the other.
They came in the little woodchips but they were easy to get off (it wasn't sawdust, like meal worms come in, they were larger peices)
Thanks for your reply
Jeremy
icequeen
07-04-03, 07:17 PM
nooo.... :D Dill is a Corucia Zebrata. Or a Monkey Tailed Skink...Prehensile tailed skink...Solomon Island Skink...just PTS for short, and DillyBean to those that know and love her!
Those are all the different names they are called.
She's a big girl...she weighs about a pound, and is almost 30 inches long from nose to tail tip.
About the waxies...mine came in that wood shaving stuff too...the bigger chunks...but I still found they had wood dust on them as well.
It was rather expensive (7.50 for 50) to find out he doesn't like them!
I'd really love to get him some silkies...but they will be over 50 bucks once shipping and handling is tacked on! Given the way he doesn't eat anything that is offered to him...I'm very leary about making that purchase! Dill is strictly vegetarian...so I couldn't even feed them to her.
Why do you say you think it's a lighting problem? Do you mean at night?
I don't think it's really a lack of sleep. Especially if he's opening only one eye, when he opens them at all.
I really think you need to get him to a vet, before it gets too late.
I think it might be a lighting problem because it's not just his eyes that are worrying me... it's also his lack of activity. He's not very active at all. Like I told Trace, I hear all these stories from everybody else's chams about how they have all this personality and what's their favorite place to bask and how they're always running around, etc... and he doesn't seem to be like that. Also, I know I have sometimes kept the lights on for more than they're supposed to be (I know, I have to get one of those cheap timers from wal-mart... I'm an idiot) But like you said, it doesn't seem like that's the problem because he does open one eye sometimes...
I definitely think I need to get him to a vet, or at least talk to a vet about him... I just can't find any vets that specialize in chams. But I gotta keep looking.
Thanks for all your help
Jeremy
By the way, like I've been telling Trace, my brother's digital camera isn't working so I can't get any pictures of him... but I decided to just forget about it and take regular pictures and either have them put it on cd or scan them in so you can all get a better look at him.
icequeen
07-05-03, 07:27 AM
I definitely think I need to get him to a vet, or at least talk to a vet about him... I just can't find any vets that specialize in chams. But I gotta keep looking
It's just my opinion but I don't think you'll ever find a vet that "specializes in chams". I think Dr. Ivan is probably the only one in the entire world...but, my point is...find one that is familiar with REPTILES.
Trace sent you a list of vets near you that will see reptiles, start calling them and find one you feel would be able to help you.
My vet here, although reptiles are NOT her speciality....when I took Dill (the pts) to see her, I had called the a couple days before, told her what the species was that I wanted her to look at and what my concerns were about Dill...she then did her own research on the species by reading, and speaking with the veternary college "near" here that DOES have a reptile specialist.
I don't know about there, but here, the veternary college specialist that I mentioned will do telephone consults with other vets (he doesn't have a regular vet practice, so you can't just call him up and make an appt.)
If you think about it Jeremy...when <b>you</b> feel like crap, you probably just lay around...not wanting to move...and keep you eyes shut either trying to sleep, or ignore the pain or sick feeling. I think that is what's happening with your cham.
Again, just my opinion, but, I think it's time to start looking at perhaps some more sinister possibilities rather than the superficial stuff like lighting.
I don't have Zoe on a timer either. I turn his lights on when I get up in the morning, and I shut them off when I go to bed at night.
Usually he gets 12 to 14 hours at a time with the lights on.
It's funny though...because if I sleep in...so does he. I've gotten up at 10 or 11 o'clock sometimes and he's still sound asleep.
Your guy really needs a check up.
If it's the cost you're worried about, the longer you wait, the more it will end up costing.
The first time I took Zoe in, it cost me about $75 Canadian.
But...I will never take Zoe back to that vet...I will always take both of my herps to the other vet that Dill went to.
She was AWESOME! She told me it had been a privelage and a learning experience for me to allow her to care for Dill. She had never seen a PTS before...and she told me that she learned more from me than I did from her...that all she was, was the vehicle to get the medications I needed to help Dill get healthy again...so she charged me HALF of the cost of the office visit, and her wholesale cost of the medication! Now THERE is a vet with her priorities straight! Especially when you think about how she did all this research about the species even before our vet visit.
She's in it for the animals, rather than the paycheque!
Anyway...I got caught up in a ramble there for a minute...
just go ahead and make an appt...then at least part of the guessing game may be solved.
I didn't mean actually specialize, I meant one that will treat a cham or, if possible, one that has treated chams before.
If you think about it Jeremy...when you feel like crap, you probably just lay around...not wanting to move...and keep you eyes shut either trying to sleep, or ignore the pain or sick feeling. I think that is what's happening with your cham.
You make a good point here, I never really thought about that.
If it's the cost you're worried about, the longer you wait, the more it will end up costing.
It is and it isn't. Cost is a problem, seeing as how I'm 16 and not very wealthy... but that's not why I haven't taken him. I guess it's a combination of the cost, the lack of time, and finding a vet who will treat him... I've already called the 2 nearest me.
But you're right, I think I should get him to a vet.
Jeremy
Well, I left a message with a vet office (it's closed because of the 4th of July) I told them the whole story, and left my # so I should get a call back tomorrow or Monday.
Jeremy
WOOHOOO!
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
I walked upstairs today and saw one of his eyes open (I saw him from the side) and noticed it was his left... it took me a second but I realized that his left was his bad eye! so I moved around to the other side and sure enough his other one was open too!! He's walking around like a pro now lol Not bumping into to anything and he's much more active (I guess because he can see what's going on)
I can't believe how great this feels! I don't know waht did it... I started a more strict lighting schedule yesterday so I don't think it would have worked that fast if it worked at all... maybe it's that plus the feeding, plus the extra watering plus the re-arranging of his cage... I don't know.
Anyway, thank you Trace and Kim SOOOO incredibley much for all of your help, it really means a lot. I just have one more question... what should I do about feeding? should I continue to force feed for a while? I tried hand feeding him a wax worm but he didn't seem to take interest... I also tried a cricket.
THANK YOU SO MUCH! EVERYBODY!
Jeremy
Hey trace or anybody else... here's a link to the plant that I have... I'm not sure if it's toxic or not.
http://www.chelseagardencenter.com/tropicalplants/dwarfpalm.html
I couldn't find it on a safe plant list so I'm a little worried.
Jeremy
icequeen
07-07-03, 06:17 AM
Hi Jeremy...
Glad to hear about Duke's turn around. Hopefully he will continue to move forward!
Yes, you must continue to keep feeding and watering him until you see him eating on his own, on a regular basis.
Otherwise, he will just back slide into dehydration, and/or malnutrition. If he isn't well nourished, and hydrated he will try to conserve his strength, and will not eat on his own.
So, don't stop until you know he's out of the woods.
Keep up the good work!
Kim
I figured I should still be feeding him, so I haven't stopped. I just thought maybe he wouldn't accept real food if he had the force feeding food readily available to him... and so I would have to stop feeding him and he'd kind of be forced to eat? I don't know.
Thanks!
Jeremy
Jeremy...
I know I'm late here... oh boy have I been busy! Or maybe it was because of the "IT" thrashing I took a few posts back. That seriously terrified me. And I just noticed I used the word too. AAAUUGGGGHHHHHHHH!
It's (<- again) been a few days since you've posted an update... is Duke still running around like a crazy fool? I sincerely hope so. One more update would be great, and I really want to see some pics of him when you've got a chance.
As for your plant, as far as I know they are non-toxic and I have them in some of my chameleon enclosures at the moment. I say that because the particular chameleons that live in those cages have devoured their Pothos so those plants had to come out for some regrowth, so the Palms went in temporarily. I find the Palm Plants aren't the best for holding the water droplets when I mist because their leaves are so skinny, but the chams are making due.
Great work with Duke! :thumbsup:
There are some who call me... Trace
Well I decided to skip a day of feeding him (yesterday) mainly because of his dewlaps (they're looking find of bad). But I started up again today and gave him a healthy feeding. He's doing pretty well. He now officially has his eyes open for good... or so it seems. About the pictures. I gave up on the digi cam and took some normal pictures and they're developed and awaiting my pick up. Don't worry about being late. That's all I can think of for today, I'll give you another update tomorrow.
Thanks!
Jeremy
Hey Trace. Congrats on the babies! You're a very lucky grandmother.
I have a problem with Duke though. He's getting skinnier, very quickly... but I don't know what I can do because I feed him as much as I can. I think he really needs to start eating on his own again. Is there more filling or a more protein oriented mix I can make? As always your help is very much appreciated.
Hmmm... that's not good. Well I've dug out my chameleon books again and the recommendations I'm getting is either the Bug Juice or the Emeraid stuff. With the Bug Juice, you could make that out of waxworms as those are a little more "fatty" than most bugs. Again, I think the Emeraid powder is only available through a veterinarian so that might be a little harder to get. :/
Did the vet ever call you back?
You could also try the Repti-Aide powder that Kim is using?!!? It is available at most pet stores as far as I know.
GO DUKE!!!
Trace
The vet called me back but it turns out they DON'T do reptiles and, very oddly enough, they couldn't give me the number of a place that did... I always thought that vets knew of vets with different expertise in the area. So that sucks pretty bad.
I might not be doing the Bug Juice the right way. I think I might do using far too much of the other ingredients and not using enough bugs. So tomorrow I'll use TONS of bugs (wax worms) . Hopefully it should be good.
I went to my very first reptile show today! it was in Monroeville (right by pittsburgh). I was very dissapointed to find out there was only one serious cham guy there. So I talked with him for a little while and ended up getting Duke a little baby sister! And I'm planning on breeding them later on down the road so I guess that could be incest. He had a 5 year old male there which was amazing.... it was probably only amazing because that was the first time I had ever seen an adult in person.
He said a lot of stuff that didn't really make any sense to me though so I got the feeling he didn't know what he was talking about... He said I should get rid of my drip system because something about them pooping around that area because there's constant water there and that makes that particular area very bad... not sure. He also said he knew somebody with a male veiled cham that lived to be 12!! Which blew my mind.
Anyway, I'm rambling! Sorry about that. I'll let you know how the new bug juice goes.
J-meister! :D
The vet called me back but it turns out they DON'T do reptiles and, very oddly enough, they couldn't give me the number of a place that did... I always thought that vets knew of vets with different expertise in the area. So that sucks pretty bad.
Yeah, that does suck! I guess I should consider myself lucky that I've got a good vet so close to me, and J-man, if we did live closer I'd take Duke to my vet for you. I'm really rooting for your little guy. I have sent off a few emails asking for some vet recommendations in the Pittsburgh area for you, so hopefully I'll come up with something within the next few days. (hopefully sooner!)
I also got to thinking... you are a member of the chameleonresearch forum group right? Maybe posting an abbreviated thread about Duke's problems there will get you some help and/or a list of vets in your area. Again, it not that I don't want to help... it's just difficult over the internet, know what I mean. So far I've just given you short term ways of dealing with him until you are able to determine what his problem truly is.
I went to my very first reptile show today!
They are fun eh! I really got to get around to posting pics of all the chams I picked up at the show last weekend. Did you see anything else interesting there?
So I talked with him for a little while and ended up getting Duke a little baby sister! And I'm planning on breeding them later on down the road so I guess that could be incest.
:eek: That's awesome! Congrats on the new addition! I know you know this already, but wait until she is about a year old before you breed them... egg laying just takes sssooo much out of the females so it's best not to rob them of the calcium supply as they are growing. Do you have 2 females now? I thought I read on another thread here that you had one already? Maybe I'm just dreaming that. :/
GO DUKE!
There are some who call me... Trace
Trace PMed me cuz I'm a Philly gal and maybe I'd know of a vet. I don't know any of these folks personally but the Pittsburgh Herp Society thinks enough of them to list them on a public web page so it's worth calling around:
http://trfn.clpgh.org/phs/links.html#part-5
Man, I sure hope you can find somebody qualified to help this poor guy, reading this thread breaks my heart.
Eyespy... I just wanted to thank you publically for the link you supplied. I know you are terribly busy with the rescue work that you do with Beardies and I appreciate you taking the time to look up some information for me.
Thanks again! :D
Trace
Yeah thank you very much for that link. I'm sure it will help. And thank you trace for your replies.
I tried the new bug juice and I already fed him today... about 15 cc's or so, though some spills out as you probably have experienced. Yeah I'm definitely going to wait a while before breeding them. The guy I bought it from said that females are able to breed at 3 months old?? That really didn't sound right to me.
Thanks for all the help.
choriona
07-14-03, 01:06 PM
Hey, I've just popped in here and read the threads. When you say you cham is getting skinny....what does he look like when he's sleeping? I know that my cham is really plump when she is sleeping or just balled up with her tail curled under her, BUT when she is walking around, or threatening me or trying to look like a leaf, she looks sooo skinny. Almost like it's impossible for her to even have intestines or a stomach or anything in there! She can do this even when she is full of eggs.
He looks a little skinny when sleeping... but more skinny during the day. When he's sleeping, you can see his ribs a little but other than that he seems to be sized right.
choriona
07-14-03, 02:52 PM
has he always been skinny, or is this coming on gradually? How old is he now? And how long has he had his eye problem? Sorry for asking questions if you've got it all sorted out now...I'm new here and I know quite a bit about chams.
Don't worry at all about the questions... I'm glad to answer any and all questions.
He hasn't always been SKINNY but I've always been able to see his ribs a little. He's roughly 4 months. and he has had this eye problem for a few weeks I think.. though he recently opened his eyes.
Hey Jeremy! :D
Just thought I'd pop into the thread and say NI.
How skinny is skinny? Seeing a little bit of his ribs is ok... I've got fat chameleons here because I'm guilty of overfeeding mine, I'll admit. Can you see other bones? Like do his hips really stand out? Or does he still have fatty deposits around that area and at the base of his tail? Does his vertebrae stand out?
The guy I bought it from said that females are able to breed at 3 months old?? That really didn't sound right to me.
3 MONTHS! EEEP! That's far too young in my opinion. The females are sexually mature at about 6 months of age, but just for their general health, most good breeders will wait until they are a little older to mate them. The sooner you start breeding the females the sooner they are going to die, egg laying and production just takes up so many valuable resources in the female.
Any luck with that list of vets that Eyespy provided?
GO DUKE!
There are some who call me... Trace
Hey!
I'm so sorry about being late. For some reason ssnakess.com wasn't working for me... occasionally I could get to the home page but never to the forums. Did you have the same problem?
I called a few of the 412 #'s seeing as how that's my area code... I got some answers but not many. They were saying things like it might be an eye infection but they don't know why there's no swelling or anything like that. The consensus is that it was stress. Especially since he's doing wonderful now! He's much more active, his eyes are always open and much more responsive to me putting my hand in his cage or me grabbing his casque to feed him.
Yeah 3 months is a little "Holy crap" to me! Is it even possible for her to breed at 3 months?
Again, sorry for being late... and as always thanks so much for the help to Trace and eyespy!
Hey Jeremy! :D
For some reason ssnakess.com wasn't working for me... occasionally I could get to the home page but never to the forums. Did you have the same problem?
No, I personally haven't, but I do know of others who have. Jeff is aware of the problem, but I'll definately mention it to him again, so he can get any of the last few bugs sorted out.
Well I don't know what to say about Duke... beyond I'm completely ecstatic that he's feeling better. This bit of news has totally made my day! For me, I know you put a lot of research into Veiled Chameleons before you went and bought him and I didn't want his health problems to sour you from owning a chameleon, or other chameleons in the future. Know what I mean? They are really hard to care for, but they do have marvelous personalities that make up for that. I guess your little guy is more sensitive than other males! I also admire your dedication to him... not many people would be making bug juice every day and doing force feedings like you have. Keep up the good work.
Here's to his continued recovery! I hope he starts eating on his own for you soon. Post some pics when you get the chance.
Cheers!
Trace
CDN-Cresties
07-18-03, 02:38 PM
Well im a little late in this thread, it took me a while to read but im glad to hear that your cham is improving. This thread is a testament to the great help you can get on ssnakess.com.
I owned a veiled cham before but i traded him away for a ball python, so i do have some knowledge on the care of chameleons. I've read that you are having a difficult time in finding a good herp vet, hopefully this link we'll help you out.
http://www.arav.com/USMembers.htm
Keep on working hard for your Cham and good look, i hope he eats soon on his own.
-Steve-
Thanks everybody... yeah this post is definitely an example of how useful this site is.
Trace, he's getting better still... getting bigger. I was using the calcium ensure but I switched to the "gain or maintain a healthy weight" ensure. Also for the bug juice I used more bugs and less juice and now it's like a paste... when before it was like watery... what is it supposed to be like?
Hi Jeremy! :D
:eek: He's getting bigger! That's awesome! Congrats again!
As for the bug juice, I think I mentioned somewhere on this long thread, that everytime I made the recipe, it would turn out a little different than the last time I made it. :/ I would always aim for more of a pastey consistency though, as I wanted more bugs to be ingested than the liquid ingredients.
I agree, this thread has been most interesting!
Go Duke!
Trace
Hi trace.
I'm worried that I'm feeding him too much. It seems like he's gonna regurgitate sometimes. If he does, would that be a bad sing of illness or just that I am feeding him too much? I'm just trying to get a sense of how much I should feed him.
Also Trace, I have an idea and I'd like your input on it. I'm thinking of putting Duke in a smaller cage (65 gallon reptarium) with a few vines and bend-branches for a day or 2 with more than enough crickets in it. To see if he's ready to eat on his own... because his enclosure is pretty big right now and so the only way I've offered him to eat on his own is hand feeding and a dish (which he's never eaten out of). Any input or criticism is more than welcome.
Good afternoon Jeremy!
It seems like he's gonna regurgitate sometimes. If he does, would that be a bad sing of illness or just that I am feeding him too much?
Hmmm. Could be either scenario really, but I would suspect that it is because you are feeding him too much at once. Sometimes you can push to much food into his mouth, and it takes them a few minutes to swallow it and it looks like it's coming back up. Obviously if he regurgs say an hour after a feeding, then you've got a problem.
I'm thinking of putting Duke in a smaller cage (65 gallon reptarium) with a few vines and bend-branches for a day or 2 with more than enough crickets in it.
I think this is a fabulous idea, and I don't know why I didn't think of that sooner! Sorry! If he is such a sensitive guy, maybe a smaller enclosure with lots of plants will make him feel more secure. I tend to keep my baby chameleons in a small cage for the first few months of their lives as I think that they would have an easier time locating free range prey insects. You could even go down to a 38gal reptarium as well and I think he would still be comfy in one that size. If you already own the 65gal version, then don't go out buy the 38gal, he'll be fine in that. Let me know how it goes.
Good luck! GO DUKE!
Trace
Oh... and here's an idea... count how many crickets you put in the cage so you know if he's eating or not.
Yeah I was planning on counting the crix... though there are usually a couple that hide like between the pvc and the screen so it probably won't do much good counting them seeing as how I'm BOUND to lose a few. But if I count 10 - 15 and I come back and there are a couple left then obviously he ate some. Also, I'm going to be observing him to see if I can catch him hunting...not in hopes of seeing him actually eat... as that would be hard because he's probably gonna have to feel as comfortable as possible to eat on his own.
Hopefully this will work. Thanks again Trace! I'lll let you know how it goes.
choriona
07-23-03, 11:22 PM
You could also try putting in some silkworms in a dish, or wax worms. I know when my chams are being stubborn and don't want to eat crickets, they will still go for the big fat juicy irresistable worms. Silkworms are also packed full of goodness!
If they are large worms, I would put in 2 or 3 and see if he goes for them right away or not.
Chor, thanks for the advice! sorry I didn't respond sooner... I didn't notice that you posted. Unfortunately he's never been introduced to either silks or waxes.
On another note, or update:
I'm going back to force feeding for a while because the day I put him in the new cage is the day HE CLOSED HIS EYES AGAIN! However, it was BEFORE I transfered him so it's not because of that... it's just horrible luck. I'm pretty certain that if he had his eyes open he'd be eating... unless there's something wrong with his tongue.
another update:
He wasn't eating because his eyes are closed again... so I'm going back with the syringe feeding for a little while and he seemed a bit dehydrated so I'm keeping him in an outside cage... nice and sunny... with a hose set on mist(no chemicals, no worries) directly on the cage so he should be able to drink as much as he wants.
Hey Jeremy! :D
I haven't been ignoring you or this thread... as you may have read, I have some health issues within my collection that I have to deal with, but I'm still following this thread with great interest.
Well this is a bummer! I hadn't really seen any new posts for a few days so I was hoping little Duke was doing well. I'm at a loss for what to say, or advice I can give and I'm sure you've already called the vets in your area. Outside in the sun is good, lots of water is good as well.
I truly hope he feels better really soon. My heart goes out for him. Keep me posted.
GO DUKE!
Trace
Yeah I did read about that. That must suck! Good luck with your treatments, I'm sure all of your little buddies will be fine! Don't worry about replying or anything like that, don't feel obligated. Thanks for your help and I think I'm doing all I can.
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