please identify

[Shane Tesser]

Hi guys, im just curious, i was in Niagara Falls yesterday and went to the Rainforest cafe. They had a very cool display of a large snake, i would say he as about seven feet long, very thick and was brown with black spots (sorry im really a newbie on this sort of thing) The enclose was at least six feet high, maybe more and at least as wide. It was set up with several branches and when i arrived he was very active climbing all around the branches. I got some pics but not with a digital, so im just wondering if anyone has either seen the display? or could identify what he/she is......thanks, sorry so little info.:)

[Nicky]

No expert at all, from what you say I think it might be
well It's deffintly a boa or python thats for sure. if it's 7 feet than it's larger than most pythons except the burm and adacondas or uit could of been a boa or something else my guess is a burm but I reall ydon't know I've never been to the rainforest cafe I'll check it out next time sorry thats all I could think of hope it maybe helped a little
like i said I'm no exspert at all just a herp lover

[Shane Tesser]

Thanks for the tip, when i get my pics developed ill see if i can scan one and post it, i hope they turned out.

[Linds]

Not sure what animals are there now. Sounds like an anaconda from your description? There has been alot of trouble with the reptile exhibit there. Animals are in and out of there and the OSPCA has been there. We have a white throat monitor that used to be at the Rainforest Cafe at the store I work at. He's recovering now :)

[Shane Tesser]

Yeah, i often wonder about how well kept the animals are in those stores. The fish alway seem to do quite well, they have a shark tank and everyone looked healthy. Lets just pray our snake friend is also doing okay.;)

[Linds]

Actually, one of the sharks had its belly rubbed in shipping to the place (notice the scar?) and was dropped by one of the workers and bit 2 people :eek: Now mind you I am no expert, but IMO those sharks need a much larger environment than that :( I thought all the rest of the fish tanks looked fine though........

[Shane Tesser]

Any shark could probably use a larger enclosure, your right, these guys are fairly small though, i would say its a decent size for them currently. I didn't see the scar, i couldn't get real close, they were so busy they were lining people up at the tank to get to their tables, lol. I didnt get past the tank, it was nuts, outside they had a magician who i walked right past his show to see the tanks, and above him on the building there was a guy dressed as spiderman, so needless to say, it was crazy. Bit two people, lol, thats cool...they probably deserve it, dropping the poor little guys and all....good for them:) :) :)

[Laurier]

hey,

i do scuba dive so i wanna get some input on this. i have been to the rain forest cafe in niagra falls and personally, my heart was broken when i saw the white tip and the black tip in such a small enclosure.

White tip reef sharks are absolutly harmless you can bug them as much as you want and they won't strike at you. they are very gental and awsome creatures. i had the oppertunity to dive in a area where they are everywhere and i love them, my second fav. marine wildlife besides eagle sting rays.

now black tips reef sharks, these guys are devils. they are extremely aggressive and should not be messed around with. Seeing one in an enclosure that small i could see it giving a couple bites when given the oppertunity.

I personally will never go to a rainforest cafe after seeing this and personally i have no doubt that someone will loose a limb or finger because black tips are not an animal to mess around with.

Laurier

[girraffasaurus]

Well, the only Rainforest Cafe I've ever been in was down here in Florida. Actually, there are two, both in Orlando and I've been to bot. The only animals they had were the fish. No sharks or herps. Sounds good that way...just the fish.

[Nicky]

Same here one in i think it was square one had one and all they had was fish in big tanks and I'm glad it should stay that way. How horrible ot keep sharks trapped in small cagess thats inhuman!! I mean humans can be so horrible sometimes. Isn't there laws about keeping sharks for pets?? I can see fish and maybe a string ray(if you gave it a really big enclosure like a 300 gallon maybe but not a shark. heck for sharks you'd need a big swimming pool!! around a 500 gallon tank. These people obviously DON"T care about there animals much:(

[Linds]

When they are used in exhibits and such they are not considered pets. Theya re being used for "educational" purposes, etc. If this wasn't the case they wouldnt be allowed to have a reptile exhibit preiod, as all boids are illegal to own in N. Falls (I think all snakes are included in that bylaw, not just boids, and feeder rodents are prohibited from being sold as well).

[Shane Tesser]

Maybe i can shed some light into this before we end up picketting the restaurant. The sharks that i saw in this tank are small. I did see black tips, white tips, and what i believe are dog sharks. Now i would say the largest on in there was maybe three feet. And this tank had a couple of rock formations only a couple of feet high, and tonnes of swimming space. I have a store located near me that has a 4000 gallon tank with a large nurse shark, and i would say that the tank at the rainforest was twice if not three times the size. This tank has to be close to14 or 16 feet long, and it extends floor to ceiling. Not a regular 8 foot ceiling either, were talking ten feet! Now i have kept fish my entire life, i admit ive never kept sharks, only because i can't afford a tank large enough. But keeping them in this enclosure i had no problems with....trust me, im a naturalist, i do not believe in even keeping wild caught fish period, this ive stated before on the fish thread. Over the years i have been to several of their stores, including the one in Boca Raton FL. Now the sight of a large salt water aquarium is awe inspiring, ill have to admit. And most people find no problems in seeing a large tank with tonnes of brightly coloured fish in it. Trust me when i say that the majority of the times you see these type of tanks it is even more cruel. SW fish are extremely territorial, and most of the time those large displays are severily overstocked. Not to mention that the migratory patterns of a lot of these fish are now non existant. So really where do we draw the line. I promise to post my pics of the tank as soon as i get them. I had no problems with the way they are being kept, perhaps when some of the other reader had seen this tank there was larger fish, who knows. Lets not start throwing stones at the RFC, ive seen millions of worse tanks over the year.........this one kind of impressed me.:)

[Laurier]

hey,

white tips and black tip reef sharks grow to be around 4- 6 feet. the enclosure that was give was small and not enought space for the sharks to roam. when i was there back in november the black tip was to stressed out it couldn't stay balanced. See reef sharks roam alot and when they are not roaming they ussually find of spot on the ocean floor where they can sleep. The largest shark i have seen was a bull shark, thank god i was 50 feet above it when i saw it , and if i ever saw a shark like a bull in an enclosure that would not suit it i bet it would take a person out, well give them a nice biss bit. but still that tank at rainforest cafe is an extremely small enclosure and its not even enought territory for a single reef shark.

as for keeping sharks, i have seen shark eggs and baby sharks for sale but most of the time they are nurse sharks, such a friendly shark. I haven't seen to many for sale lately but still sharks should be kept in the wild or in a zoo where they can give the proper husbandry. hey, how can some of you support this? if your going suppost bad husbandry with these sharks than why aren't you supporting bad husbandry for reptiles? i say these because we all try and make sure everyone is giveing the proper care and keeping everything properly. so next time one of you who suppost these sharks enclosures sees a retic/boa at a pet store think about what you think of it than realize that its the same situation.

Laurier

[Shane Tesser]

Thanks for the input, listen i didn't want to start a large debate here, and your right your reptile example is dead on. Further more when cats and dogs are kept in stores poorly the opposite often happens and the animals are saved. Far to often are the niche type pets not even considered and this is sad. When i said that i had no problem with the tank i was going by others that i have seen. I personally don't like to see any wild animals kept, zoo or not. For a shark tank in a restaurant i feel it is not bad comparative to some that i have seen in my travels. I remember a local store that had a four thousand gallon tank(name to remain annoymous) with a full sized fifteen year old grouper, two full sized black tip sharks, a moray eel (very large) and a nurse shark, talk about a sad enclosure. Sharks do migrate, i know this, and no set up is suitable other than the wild where they belong. The tank is there for mere shock factor and unfortunately too far people are aware that the type of enclosure is not suitable. Now in their defence (trust me i don't work for them, i don't even like the food) i would like to think that they for the most part are somewhat oblivious to the size requirements period. Im sure there is an outside company that builds and maintains these displays for them. And i guarantee these are the people who are saying no problem, we can get twenty sharks in there! Please dont take this reply wrong. I really don't think its necessary to debate this to death, im very pleased that you are concerned with the well being of the animals, and you should be. The only thing that i could suggest is possibly writing a letter to them with some of the mentioned facts about their animals....who knows, maybe it will do some good, more likely than not, it will probably fall upon deaf ears. And trust me when i say, i am a true fish fanatic, its in my mind 24/7, and have probably visited more aquarium stores than most, i have seen sharks of various varieties in several, and i know of two places recently that i have seen them for sale, and trust me, i have seen some pretty scary enclosures and am ashamed to say i did little to nothing about it, but isn't this really a problem with the whole pet industry? If there is something you think that we can do, let me know and i will help. Thanks for your input, Shane.