Vote No to banning reptiles

[Iguanalady]

Got to the article in todays province on the issue and look in the left hand side of the page for a poll and vote no to banning reptiles!

http://www.canada.com/vancouver/theprovince/story.asp?id=CE34042E-6B33-4131-9322-05E8012CC3E3

[Jungle Jen]

Please everybody vote! It is a damaging 80% YES to ban reptiles! :(

[Clownfishie]

We need your help guys!! Please vote no....

[Tim and Julie B]

Wow it is amazing just when you think you have heard it all. Some one comes up with some new BS, "Reptiles die in basements", what the hell is that? They never back up anything with fact. They just use the publics uneducated knowledge against keepers when really they have no idea what any of this is actually going to do. People are so quick to protect animals that it blinds them to the reality of reptile keeping. I love how any idiot can own a furry animal, get tired of it and have the SPCA euthanize it for them and no one care but as soon as it is an unpopular pet to begin with then it is a problem. Maybe 10 years ago they had a case with wild caughts but now with so many species being bred in captivity that argument holds little weight.

[Iguanalady]

Here is the letter I sent to the province

Dear Mr. Spencer

I have a few things I would like to point out in regards to your article on the exotic animal bylaw in Surrey. Firstly reptiles do not "live and die in basements". A basement is not a good place to keep a reptile for one. It is dark and cold. I keep many reptiles in many rooms of my house but not one in the basement. Second I have been keeping reptiles as pets for about 7 years now and in that time I have only had one die. Mind you those are pets. I also do rescue and adoption work and unfortunatly I have had a few of those die. Nobody is denying a problem exisits but it exists with pet s in general. Dogs and cats in the droves are euthanized every year because of irresponsible and ignorant *people*. Animals do not abuse themselves you know. If we take away certain animals those people will not stop, they will move on to another animal. As far as restricting reptile sales go we as reptile keepers and even breeders and stores are ok with this but within reason. Richmond's brand new bylaw is commendable. It specifically targets stores and problem animals. People often buy on impulse in stores and we want to keep certain animals out of easy access in these stores. Iguanas for example grow to be 4-6 feet long as adults and most people dont even realize it. If we keep them out of the stores people will have to do a little more work to get them and find out before hand what their care needs are. The surrey bylaw will mean nobody can sell, trade or even give away any reptile in the city. That is ridiculous. What about people who live in Surrey who run adoption centers? What will they do? What about pet keepers? Where will they buy reptile food and supplies at a decent price? Stores won't care to sell those items if they don't sell the animal. Then yes there are breeders, people who sell reptile food and products and stores. Not all are perfect but just because they make money in a business centered around reptiles doesn't make them scum bag animal abusers. Reptiles are not new or a fad. They have been kept for a very long time and they are not going anywhere. Except for a rare few types of reptile most types available as pets have been bred and hand raised by people. Cornsnakes have been bred so long they have designer colours through genetic selection in breeding programs. Reptiles have no families they have been taken from in the wild like poor little Nemo. To most of them humans are what passes for family and truthfully they don't do the family thing. Most mama lizards would eat their young if they happened across them after they hatch.
Reptiles are pets to us. They may be in "cages" (which can be large and spacious and include plants to create a jungle) but what is a fence if not a cage to a dog? And is it really a good thing that people let their cats run wild? I have had an iguana come from her favorite spot by the window up onto the arm of my chair and keep me company while I watch TV. I have seen an iguana mope because its owner is away. I have seen a python follow its owners tracks through the grass when there were plenty of other people around. I have sat stroking my iguana after spending $1000 on a surgery hoping that she would wake up because I would be lost without her. I have seen people cuddle with snakes. Some people like dogs and some don't. Its the same with reptiles. We like them. Why do we have to always be afraid someone will come and make a law to take them away? More reptile owners crack books on caring for their animals than dog and cat owners. More dogs and cats get abused, abandoned or neglected. More dogs and cats cause serious injury to human persons and property than reptiles. More dogs and cats run loose. Reptiles don't break noise bylaws or poop in your garden. They don't need off leash parks. Why are they targets? The answer: these people who try to persuade cities to make these bylaws are extremists. They really want no animal to be a pet. Its too hard to target cats and dogs now though so they go after reptiles. Once the precedent has been set though, you can bet dogs and cats will be next!

Reptiles are not wild or exotic. They are animals. Cat, dog, reptile--they all behave according to instinct and learning. If you throw food to a cat and never touch it, it will grow to be wild and untame. The same goes for a reptile. People must be educated to properly socialize reptiles. And even when properly socialized they will react with instinct. A dog might snap at you if you try to touch its food, or if its injured. Same as a reptile might. They are really not so different as pets--people just fear what they do not understand.

Amanda Fenrick
Pitt MEadows BC

By the way Gail Watson is no breeder. He is a sweet old man who has been doing reptile education for decades. He takes all his free time and goes to schools, kids groups, libraries, special needs kids camps, SPCA camps and on and on and on. He does so many I often worry he will give him self a heart attack from the effort. He deserves some kind of community award or something and you made him out sounding like a self interested breeder, even if that was not your intent. Instead of writing an article like today's why not do a story on him. It would be much more interesting and positive in this world of negativity.

[Jeff_Favelle]

That article by Kent Spencer made it sound like he was in favor of keeping reptiles as pets. At the beginning he was totally pointing out the stupidity of it. Good article. Biased and on OUR side, don't you think?

[HetForHuman]

damnit i tried to vote more than once but it wouldnt let me :(come on people lets VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[steelherper]

that sucks. Washington passed law back in January dealing with the banning of herps.is Oregon and Alberta next.:rolleyes: :mad:

[Iguanalady]

It was hard to say whose side he was on. Actually I thought it was a little poorly written. He seems to be trying to tell a story that was way bigger than he had room for. It was choppy with all the quotes and I know some of the "our side " people he quoted--the quotes were poorly chosen and sort of reflect a breeder bias which isnt there. A lot of the facts were innacurate so it was also poorly researched. I'm not exactly sure whose "side" he is on....it seems that he is trying a little too hard to be unbiassed but at the same time a bias seems to be there if you know the story and the people he is talking about. All in all the article did us no favours.

[suicidalratt]

I think it is funny how several people want to have the reptiles as pets just for show or amusiment, but on the other hand when they get anIguana from a fair as a prize they are clueless. The main problem in my oppion is they think that anything without fur is not to be kept as a pet. I have a Red Tail that is over 10ft and just as tame now as she was when I first got her.
The town that I used to live in tried to put a ban on anyone owning a "poisionus constricter" (witch I have yet to see). I went to the city counsel meeting and gave my side of the story with the help of the Animal Control Officer. Who stated that in the past 20 years that he was in charge of animal control there was no reproted cases of bites from reptiles ever and at least 100 reported cases of bites from cats and dogs a year. So thats about 2,000 bites from furry animals to 0 bites from reptiles, so what makes the safer pet?
I have rescued several reptiles from people that could not handle them any more, or they did get bored and the fun was over.
I wil be the first to admit some of the ones that I rescued would not have been my first choice to get but I was willing to take the time to do the right thing untill a proper home could be found, not all of them lived past a week for various reasons most was malnutrition from the time that I had gotten them.
Thanks Will

[snake_goth]

ive voted and ime going to vote on my mum's pc every 1 go to cyber cafs and use there pc's that should get things evind up all so send the page to 5 friends asking them to send it to five friend and so on

[daver676]

I voted.

IMO the bottom line here is that people are scared of what they don't know. Ignorance.........:rolleyes:

[Steeve B]

this morning when I voted the score was 66% yes 34% no
get off you bootie and vote guys!

[Caimen13]

oh *****!Im going to the other forum to post this!

[Colonel SB]

I vote a big ol' no and I'll try and do it on every computer at my work.

[jncoclub]

The article was poorly written with no basis or back up other than a someone's nieve opinion. Iguanalady's reply had more info in her response. Good job!

[drewlowe]

that law is such crap.

I live in a basement and raise my herps there. Ive only had 2 reptiles die in my care. And both were problems from other breeders. Both animals died within 2 weeks of me getting them. so that part to me is upseting. (just had to make that point.)

I voted and that law is so ridiculis.

[BWSmith]

This is unfortunately an all to familiar trend. Herps are being banned everywhere now. These laws are passed by politicians with no understanding or knowledge of the subject matter. When laws are passed regarding the economy, and economist is brought in. When Foreign Policy is concerned, diplomats are consulted. The CDC, API, PETA, and HSUS are not experts. I say the CDC because of the ludicrous statistics they release and agendas they don't care to share. After all, what happens when they release unrealistic statistics about diseases? "The problem is larger than we anticipated, we need more funding". But I digress. Herpetiles are by far the most persecuted animals on the planet. Surveys show that most of the time, Snakes are feared more than DEATH! These are unreasonable fears that quietly whisper in the ears of politicians. These fears, not logic, are the invisible forces guiding the pens of lawmakers. Do more than vote on the site. Become part of the solution. Become active. Don't pout on the sidelines and then cry when your herps carry with them a fine. If you do nothing, then you have earned nothing, and you have no right to complain. I realize that many people on this site are not old enough to vote. So be it. You can still persuade parents, teachers, and other adults to simply go out to the public hearing against the ban. Get every herp society you can involved. Get people with letters after their names on your side (e.g. PHD). Build an ARMY of citizens who care for herps. Show them that these are not exotic animals secretly kept in the corner of a basement. But they are magnifiscant animals that brings us great pride and a greater understanding of the world around us. Show them that it is not just a few creepy people keeping these "creepy" pets. Show them that they are businessmen, educators, students, professors, lawyers, doctors and people from every walk of life, and we live in great numbers. We are all around them, we are the legs they stand on, we are the ones that vote, we are the ones that pay taxes, it is because of us that they have a job, and we do not like arbitrary restrictions created from flimsy evidence and personal biased from an unenlightened leader. If you are going to make a law, then know the subject matter. But I warn you of what would detrement your cause. Have "Herper Police" go to the meeting. Police your allies. If you see anyone with a snake or lizard, ask them to take the animal home because they are hurting your cause. NEVER bring a herp to an anti-herp group. They already want to ban them. What you have to do is present the facts, educate them, and above all DISTANCE them. If you have some idiot with a Burm around his neck go into town hall to protest the law, your cause is lost. You want to speak to them on a higher level, not shove that which they dispise in their face. So be careful of your allies. If you see some idiot bringing their snake to the meeting, tell them why they should not, persuade them. Above all, get involved. Voting on that site is a start, but there is more that can be done. Good luck.

[BoidKeeper]

The poll says exotics not reptiles. I don't think someone should be allowed to keep a tiger or all reptiles for that matter I voted no but I would have liked it if the poll was more specific.
Trevor

[Wilma]

I agree with trever, but unfortunatly these people don't seem to know HOW to be specific. In Oshawa its illegal to keep ferrets, and thats another ridiculous law...
The fact is some peopl just shouldn't own pets, ANY pets. Tougher animal cruilty laws and a more informed society is what is needed.

I voted no but its at 66% yes right now :S

[Tim and Julie B]

Have you all seen this and voted?
Just keeping it on the home page!:D

[Iguanalady]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO we are ahead!!!! I guess it was all those kingsnake forums I posted on this am. We are now at 52 % for NO!!

[Iguanalady]

Here is a job for everyone. Even if you live way up in Prince George or Vernon and even if you arent going. Phone up Surrey and ask them that you heard that there will be a public meeting on the issue of the exotics bylaw on July 21 and ask for confirmation and then the details like when and where. Then ask if this is where you can speak out against the bylaw and ask how you arrange to do that.

I want them to know a lot of people are ticked off about this. The cities general infor phone number is (604) 591-4011.

Other good numbers to call are
Mayor Doug McCallum 604.591.4126
Councillor Judith E. Higginbotham 604.591.4633
Councillor J. Marvin Hunt 604.591.4635
Councillor Barbara Steele 604.591.4623
Councillor Gary D. Tymoschuk 604.591.4626
Councillor Robert Bose 604.591.4624
Councillor Penny Priddy 604.591.4622
Councillor Judy A. Villeneuve 604.591.4625
Councillor Dianne L. Watts 604.591.4634

[jncoclub]

NO 51.1% vs YES 48.9%
I must say, this is probably the first time I think I have seen my one little vote count toward a worthy cause that didn't seem plausible. Ok, it's just one poorly written article on the web, but it is a start. Way to go everyone!

[python_diva_06]

i voted and i don't even live in Canada, but, the "no"'s are only at 50.6 percent :/

[drewlowe]

same here diva i live in the states and i voted also. it may not effect us now but it may sometime in the future. the more we make a stand now the better it hopefully will become.

[corr]

The No's are 50.2 now... I'll vote again from home too. :)

[SnowSnake]

49.9% yes 50.1% no

[Iguanalady]

Does anyone know some bird forums that we could post this too? We exotic keepers shoudl stick together. I know the rat keepers would probably not want to encourage snake keeping but the bird keepers might be on our side.

[Darlene]

voted & the no's are 50.1%. do they know exotics even includes sweet little polly the parrot ? terrible naivete.

[drewlowe]

I plan on voting when i get home also and e-mailing every one i know with this. hope the count will go up from there. i will also go to the chat rooms i frequent and let them know.

[JoeBradley]

I got my vote in. Looks like we are still hanging on to a slight lead. Keep voting.

[Sean_.E.]

Guys... Its 50% yes 50% no!

[jncoclub]

I tried going on today and there is a new poll. So I wonder what happens with that poll now?

[snake_goth]

f*ck i 4got to vote on my mum's pc sorry guys and gals realy sorry